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Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:19 am
I was on immortalgeisha.com's FAQ and one of the questions was "How can I tell a Geisha/maiko apart from a Tayuu/Oiran?"
What is a Tayuu/Oiran?
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Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:10 pm
Wikipedia turned up very little for me, except for a small comment in an article about an anime I like. It turns out one of the characters is an Oiran, a high-class prostitute.
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Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 2:28 pm
Reijin-chan Wikipedia turned up very little for me, except for a small comment in an article about an anime I like. It turns out one of the characters is an Oiran, a high-class prostitute. That's what I thought, but I wasn't entirely sure.
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Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:21 pm
i had a few things on tayuu info and pictures i'll go look for them
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Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:25 pm
Tayu were high-class courtesans in Japan. Cultural aspects of tayu traditions continue to be preserved to this day. The Tayu arose in the Edo period, 1600 - 1868. At this time, laws were passed restricting brothels to walled districts set some distance from the city center. In the major cities these were the Shimabara in Kyoto, the Shimmachi in Osaka, and in Edo (present-day Tokyo), the Yoshiwara. These rapidly grew into large, self-contained "Pleasure Quarters" offering all manner of entertainments. Within, a courtesan's birth rank held no distinction but there arose a strict hieirarchy according to beauty, character, educational attainments and artistic skills. Tayu were the highest rank of courtesan or prostitute, and were considered suitable for the daimyo. Only the wealthiest and highest ranking could hope to patronise them. To entertain their clients, Tayu practiced the arts of dance, music, poetry and calligraphy, and an educated wit was considered essential to sophisticated conversation. The isolation within the closed districts resulted in the Tayu becoming highly ritualised in many ways and increasingly removed from the changing society. Strict etiquette ruled the standards of appropriate behavior. Their speech preserved the formal court standards rather than the common language. A casual visitor would not be accepted; their clients would summon them with a formal invitation, and the Tayu would pass through the streets in a formal procession with a retinue of servants. The costumes worn became more and more ornate and complex, culminating in a style with 8 or more pins and combs in the hair, and many prescribed layers of highly ornamented garments derived from those of the earliest Tayu from the early Edo period. Similarly, the entertainments offered also were derived from those of the original Tayu generations before. Ultimately, the culture of the Tayu grew increasingly rarified and remote from everyday life, and their clients dwindled. The rise of the Geisha ended the era of the Tayu. Geisha practiced the common entertainments enjoyed by the people of that time, and were much more accessible to the casual visitor. Their popularity grew rapidly and eclipsed that of the Tayu. The last recorded Tayu was in 1761. The few remaining women still currently practicing the arts of the Tayu do so as a preservation of cultural heritage, rather than as a profession or lifestyle. An easy way to tell a geisha from a tayu is they're obi geisha tie it in the back the tayu tie it in the front
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:55 pm
That was very informative, thank you.
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:27 pm
Geisha/maiko are like these people who could do things and made men happy. And sometimes, but not always, did.... explicit things... with their customers. Tayuu and stuff are just whores.
I learned all this from fiction books, so I'm not sure if it's TOTALLY true or not. But. Yeah.
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:17 am
IMHO, one has to always be aware that it is a different culture, as well as time period. The label "whore" does not neccessarily mean that a Tayuu's sole purpose was to have sex with her customers. As stated above, they do have other means of "entertaining"--through the arts, or through conversation. Probably more parallel to the courtesans of Europe. It's a lot more complicated than just sex-for-money bit.
Also, I think geisha aren't supposed to sleep with their customers. They took pride in not doing that, although the mizuage ceremony is a different story...
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Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:05 pm
Lotus_Santi IMHO, one has to always be aware that it is a different culture, as well as time period. The label "whore" does not neccessarily mean that a Tayuu's sole purpose was to have sex with her customers. As stated above, they do have other means of "entertaining"--through the arts, or through conversation. Probably more parallel to the courtesans of Europe. It's a lot more complicated than just sex-for-money bit.
Also, I think geisha aren't supposed to sleep with their customers. They took pride in not doing that, although the mizuage ceremony is a different story... mizuage ceremony is hard to get correct info on i just know at some point in time it was changed
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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:18 am
Tayu and Oiran are prostitutes, durring WWII when the Geisha left the majior citys for shelter, the Tayu and Oiran stayed and told the forieners that they were Geisha.. so I think that's why there's so much confusion on the topic. The closest a Geisha will get to a Tayu/Oiran's job would be a bit of flirting to make their clients feel special. Nothing more. Mizuage today is just a 'turning of the collar' cerimony.. they don't do it nearly the same way anymore. To the Geisha, haveing sexual relations with their clients is like any woman of any ocupation sleeping with her cliants.. Are you so bad at your job that you have to do THAT to keep their buisness? The geisha sell their art not their bodies. The Yayu and Oiran were basicly the whores to the wealthy.. untill the prostitution laws were put into place.
Mizuage, I think, the Maiko will preticipate in a cerimony, change her cloths to a tomesode with a white juban coller and a much shorter obi, then return to finnish the cerimony
all of these women practice art, dance, music, caligraphy, poetry, ect. but the Tayu and Oiran spend more time studying/practiceing OTHER things, while the Maiko and Geisha spend all of the time their not working or sleeping studying these arts. Many Japanese get them mixed up as well, mostly because of the rumors from foreners.. and it's sad really that many people will not let their daughters become Geisha because of this.
I wish they'd let non-Japanese women become Geisha.. I'd so do it! lol yes, I'm using my son's account again 4laugh but, yea, art is my life so I'd fit in perfectly as a Geisha.. if only I were Japanese gonk
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Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:13 pm
Namari_cat Tayu and Oiran are prostitutes, durring WWII when the Geisha left the majior citys for shelter, the Tayu and Oiran stayed and told the forieners that they were Geisha.. so I think that's why there's so much confusion on the topic. The closest a Geisha will get to a Tayu/Oiran's job would be a bit of flirting to make their clients feel special. Nothing more. Mizuage today is just a 'turning of the collar' cerimony.. they don't do it nearly the same way anymore. To the Geisha, haveing sexual relations with their clients is like any woman of any ocupation sleeping with her cliants.. Are you so bad at your job that you have to do THAT to keep their buisness? The geisha sell their art not their bodies. The Yayu and Oiran were basicly the whores to the wealthy.. untill the prostitution laws were put into place. Mizuage, I think, the Maiko will preticipate in a cerimony, change her cloths to a tomesode with a white juban coller and a much shorter obi, then return to finnish the cerimony all of these women practice art, dance, music, caligraphy, poetry, ect. but the Tayu and Oiran spend more time studying/practiceing OTHER things, while the Maiko and Geisha spend all of the time their not working or sleeping studying these arts. Many Japanese get them mixed up as well, mostly because of the rumors from foreners.. and it's sad really that many people will not let their daughters become Geisha because of this. I wish they'd let non-Japanese women become Geisha.. I'd so do it! lol yes, I'm using my son's account again 4laugh but, yea, art is my life so I'd fit in perfectly as a Geisha.. if only I were Japanese gonk im pretty sure that the whores from wwII were just that, whores, not actual Tayuu and Oirian but the ladies that were hired by the government to 'serve' the 'barbarians' did often wear kimono and call themselves geisha The titles Tayuu and Oirian mean much more then prostitute, it was thier rank in the floating cities such as Yoshiwara and Shimbara, they were the highest and most celebrated. They could choose thier customers as to whom they would sleep with, and unlike a lower girl that needed the money to pay off insane debts, a Tayuu could refuse an advance
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Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:37 am
Yah ^^ a new topic to research! Thank you! I enjoy learning from this guild!
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Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:19 pm
Actually... There has been woman who wasn't from Japan who became a Geisha.. I actually have the book she wrote on it... *runs to find it*
The book itself is titled 'Geisha' By: Liza Dalby. Little bit on the back "Liza Dalby, as the only foreigner ever to have become an actual geisha, knows more about the subject than I'll ever know..."Arthur Golden.
I haven't read more then a chapter or two, as I got it from Amazon as semester started, so haven't had the time it deserves...
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:23 pm
sunnycocobeans Actually... There has been woman who wasn't from Japan who became a Geisha.. I actually have the book she wrote on it... *runs to find it* The book itself is titled 'Geisha' By: Liza Dalby. Little bit on the back "Liza Dalby, as the only foreigner ever to have become an actual geisha, knows more about the subject than I'll ever know..."Arthur Golden. I haven't read more then a chapter or two, as I got it from Amazon as semester started, so haven't had the time it deserves... That's amazing. As soon as I finish Memoirs I'm going to hunt down Geisha. I'd love to be one. My mom teased me about three years ago that in a former life, I must have been a Geisha because I was so inlove with the Japanese culure, although I thought Geisha were pretty woman who served food(like the label on the can of food led on XP). Now she sings the 'Turning Japanese' song XD I'd love to do it but I think I'm way too old to start =D
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Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:29 pm
I have to admit, it would be pretty awesome. But the only reason Liza was able to was purely for research. I think it was the Geisha's way of letting everyone know with out saying it, that they are no man's whore. They don't need the money.
Of course they'll take men to their bed, women the world over do, but their reasons are the same as ours.
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