((Apologies to all for the over one year hiatus. A lot of stuff happened and I couldn't log back in until it was done. sweatdrop ))
Anyways, here's the official thread for the latest Kamen Rider series, Armored Rider Gaim.
To be honest, my first impressions with the whole fruit motif didn't really sit well with me at first, but after watching it through almost all of it's entire run now, I've gotta say that it's become one of my personal favorites. Just goes to show you kids, never judge a book by its cover.
So what do you guys think?
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:17 pm
It's an amazing series thus far. It's up near Kuuga/Akito, 555, and Kabuto.
It's an amazing series thus far. It's up near Kuuga/Akito, 555, and Kabuto.
I'd say so. It's definitely up there among most well-written stories. Pretty good acting and the suit designs have really since grown on me too. I just wish they would give Baron a proper Final Form. mad
What's been your favorite thing about it?
Also, Akito? I'm pretty sure you mean Agito. xd
Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:19 pm
Gaim has been pretty good. Think in regards to the motif it did have the usual "Ew what are they doing this year? It is horrible looking," but the good writing and seeing it in action enough has quelled that for the most part. Still can't say they are amazing, but they aren't as bad as I first thought they were.
Story wise it has been a great series. Doing away with the two-episode-arcs have done wonders and orange meguca certainly has had a good balance of the silly others like with the intense moments that made me get into toku stuff at a young age. There is serious consequences in the storyline, unlike the previous few where it was kind of implied, but never really delivered on. I'm crossing my fingers it ends well since a lot of Kamen Riders, no matter how good, tend to have iffy endings. Especially the cookie cutter ones that have plagued the past few years in terms of the big "emotional" loss that isn't really a loss.
It would be cool if Kaito/Baron got a proper final form. Still don't like that he is using the same energy lockseed as another rider but somehow it is different on him, but I'm glad he at least got that at least. I'm going to guess with what I know on things though that he won't get a true final form, which is a shame.
Itami Vice Captain
Celestial Sentai
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Mr Jes Captain
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Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 8:48 pm
Itami
Gaim has been pretty good. Think in regards to the motif it did have the usual "Ew what are they doing this year? It is horrible looking," but the good writing and seeing it in action enough has quelled that for the most part. Still can't say they are amazing, but they aren't as bad as I first thought they were.
Story wise it has been a great series. Doing away with the two-episode-arcs have done wonders and orange meguca certainly has had a good balance of the silly others like with the intense moments that made me get into toku stuff at a young age. There is serious consequences in the storyline, unlike the previous few where it was kind of implied, but never really delivered on. I'm crossing my fingers it ends well since a lot of Kamen Riders, no matter how good, tend to have iffy endings. Especially the cookie cutter ones that have plagued the past few years in terms of the big "emotional" loss that isn't really a loss.
It would be cool if Kaito/Baron got a proper final form. Still don't like that he is using the same energy lockseed as another rider but somehow it is different on him, but I'm glad he at least got that at least. I'm going to guess with what I know on things though that he won't get a true final form, which is a shame.
Exactly! I thought the same thing. The design really did put me off at first, but it too has grown on me as time went on. It was pretty much like the Gokaiger suits; at first I thought it was a crappy concept and design, but soon after I got a chance and got into the story it I started to like it.
I agree. The two-parter episode system and near constant filler episodes really took away from some of the earlier rider series say like Wizard. The balance between coming of age and having actual consequences really has brought up Gaim to a whole new level. I wouldn't say it's perfect either, but it definitely is something that allows me to take it more seriously, despite my growing dislike for Kouta's constant naivety.
I didn't like offing Takatora again after they just nursed him back to health once he was betrayed. I didn't mind him being defeated since it's really helping to story and drive Mitchy more into insanity, but I thought it was a waste of making the original Zangestsu suit. I like Zangestsu-Shin too mind you, but I think the original powers didn't get enough screen time to suit me.
I think Kaito should also get a proper final form like Mitchy seems to be getting in recently leaked scans. I understand that the Lemon Energy Arms was a late addition due to his popularity and that powers actually suit him as a super form, but I would love to see a Kachidoki or Kiwami-style final form that's based on his original banana motif. Oh well, I guess that's what my imagination is for. emo
Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:51 am
Mr Jes
Exactly! I thought the same thing. The design really did put me off at first, but it too has grown on me as time went on. It was pretty much like the Gokaiger suits; at first I thought it was a crappy concept and design, but soon after I got a chance and got into the story it I started to like it.
I agree. The two-parter episode system and near constant filler episodes really took away from some of the earlier rider series say like Wizard. The balance between coming of age and having actual consequences really has brought up Gaim to a whole new level. I wouldn't say it's perfect either, but it definitely is something that allows me to take it more seriously, despite my growing dislike for Kouta's constant naivety.
I didn't like offing Takatora again after they just nursed him back to health once he was betrayed. I didn't mind him being defeated since it's really helping to story and drive Mitchy more into insanity, but I thought it was a waste of making the original Zangestsu suit. I like Zangestsu-Shin too mind you, but I think the original powers didn't get enough screen time to suit me.
I think Kaito should also get a proper final form like Mitchy seems to be getting in recently leaked scans. I understand that the Lemon Energy Arms was a late addition due to his popularity and that powers actually suit him as a super form, but I would love to see a Kachidoki or Kiwami-style final form that's based on his original banana motif. Oh well, I guess that's what my imagination is for. emo
I actually liked the Gokaiger suits pretty quickly myself, but yeah that is the pattern in modern Toku stuff. They release the outfits, and either you adapt to stand them or to like them. Most the time. Still not enjoying the ToQGer outfits and I'm very worried about Kamen Rider Drive. Gaim's suits work though after I got use to them.
People like using Wizard as an example and it was probably one of the worst offenders of having too much "nothing is going on", but then a lot of them have been like that. Fourze, OOO, they all had stretches where it felt like I was waiting on stuff. Wizard just had a lot more of it (probably because the one actress was busy a lot, same problem that happened to Kabuto really).
I agree. Zangetsu really wasn't on screen enough. Just when you learned more about him and things were picking up he became the Shin version. I think his death was a good part of things but it would have been nice if he had more use after being out of commission for a few eps like you said. Also the Zangetsu-shin bit reminds me of one thing I don't like. Baron uses the lemon energy lockseed but it becomes different for him. When Micchy used the melon energy one it should have become different too. I don't like the weirdness of that. Just seems off to me.
I don't see him getting one. It would have been nice, but with the direction the show went he didn't end up the primary rider threat so Micchy is going to have the crazy final form to fight him with
Though it looks like Kaito might eat one of the fruits or something and become an overlord himself.
Itami Vice Captain
Celestial Sentai
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Mr Jes Captain
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:40 pm
Itami
I actually liked the Gokaiger suits pretty quickly myself, but yeah that is the pattern in modern Toku stuff. They release the outfits, and either you adapt to stand them or to like them. Most the time. Still not enjoying the ToQGer outfits and I'm very worried about Kamen Rider Drive. Gaim's suits work though after I got use to them.
People like using Wizard as an example and it was probably one of the worst offenders of having too much "nothing is going on", but then a lot of them have been like that. Fourze, OOO, they all had stretches where it felt like I was waiting on stuff. Wizard just had a lot more of it (probably because the one actress was busy a lot, same problem that happened to Kabuto really).
I agree. Zangetsu really wasn't on screen enough. Just when you learned more about him and things were picking up he became the Shin version. I think his death was a good part of things but it would have been nice if he had more use after being out of commission for a few eps like you said. Also the Zangetsu-shin bit reminds me of one thing I don't like. Baron uses the lemon energy lockseed but it becomes different for him. When Micchy used the melon energy one it should have become different too. I don't like the weirdness of that. Just seems off to me.
I don't see him getting one. It would have been nice, but with the direction the show went he didn't end up the primary rider threat so Micchy is going to have the crazy final form to fight him with
Though it looks like Kaito might eat one of the fruits or something and become an overlord himself.
lol Needless to say, it quickly grew on me after a while. But what's so wrong about Drive and ToQGer?
I only used Wizard since it was the first series to pop in my head when I was typing, but I agree, there does seem to be a lot of needless filler in most of the Toku we see now. I'm perfectly okay with something fun or different or to breakup darker elements with some much needed humor. I'm confused. Which Wizard actress was busy a lot during shooting? The only one I know about for sure is the actor for Professor Ryouma/KR Duke, but he's in Gaim. confused
Basically yeah, destroying a rider's powers or killing a character to show the consequences of our actions, like you said is fine. I actually like that element of Gaim, but to take a rider out after you spent all that time of bringing him back from the forest seemed like a waste, just like Takatora immediately going to the Genesis Driver without showing more of his original form. I like what the "butcher" is trying to do, I just think that part was a messed up. Even if I like where the result is going…. if that makes any sense. sweatdrop
Me either, which I'm kinda disappointed about since he's one of my favorite characters. Though I can see why Micchy getting that super evil form works though.
I saw that too. But we won't know anything more for sure until either more scans are leaked or it's explained in the show.
Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:51 pm
Mr Jes
lol Needless to say, it quickly grew on me after a while. But what's so wrong about Drive and ToQGer?
I only used Wizard since it was the first series to pop in my head when I was typing, but I agree, there does seem to be a lot of needless filler in most of the Toku we see now. I'm perfectly okay with something fun or different or to breakup darker elements with some much needed humor. I'm confused. Which Wizard actress was busy a lot during shooting? The only one I know about for sure is the actor for Professor Ryouma/KR Duke, but he's in Gaim. confused
Basically yeah, destroying a rider's powers or killing a character to show the consequences of our actions, like you said is fine. I actually like that element of Gaim, but to take a rider out after you spent all that time of bringing him back from the forest seemed like a waste, just like Takatora immediately going to the Genesis Driver without showing more of his original form. I like what the "butcher" is trying to do, I just think that part was a messed up. Even if I like where the result is going…. if that makes any sense. sweatdrop
Me either, which I'm kinda disappointed about since he's one of my favorite characters. Though I can see why Micchy getting that super evil form works though.
I saw that too. But we won't know anything more for sure until either more scans are leaked or it's explained in the show.
ToQGers have pretty boring suits and the helmets are just awful. I've grown to ignore their helmets and suits in general. A form of standing them I guess. But it is still a pretty ugly design to me overall. Drive I don't know how it looks yet but the car motif worries me, especially since it looks like it is using the car motif just like ToQGer is doing the train one.
From what I heard the girl who needed Wizard's magic to survive. Harumi? I am so bad with names. I've heard she had other things she had to do sometimes so that is why she was almost never around. I think the issue of filler eps goes back a long way with Kamen Rider. While it is good to have something to break up the flow now and again, a lot of them had issues with a lot not really going on for a bit or things advancing, just lingering and waiting for one ep to really push stuff for a moment then linger on something new. Gaim has been wonderful since it doesn't do that much. It keeps pressing forward.
It is a bit of a mess up since we didn't see him much, but given how good the fight leading up to it was and that weight stuff I am content with it. One thing that bothered me with Wizard since we are bringing it up as examples comparing it to Gaim was that no one ever became a Phantom. After a while it loses that believability. If everyone is saved, then by the middle and near-end you have no worries about people. The tension is gone because they will always somehow save them. Even
Beast losing his driver and the one girl dying
isn't a big thing because you knew it would be fixed in some way by the next movie. Just like they have been doing since Double.
The partner who isn't fully human who dies but then isn't dead
bit got really played out, and it is predictable when the end result of that plotline always comes out the same. Having death return puts some weight on that though. Kyoryuger I won't watch
but I will commend it on having some people like that mentor bird monster die. Something Sentai has lacked but had such weight was the consequences for being evil. Dragon ranger's death is still in my mind, as is Abarekiller. They were assholes who redeemed themselves and then died tragically, but not before making sure to do the right things.
Hopefully they make something since he is pretty popular. If not for this then the final Gaim movie when he teams up with Drive they could give Kaito something. Perhaps.
Itami Vice Captain
Celestial Sentai
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Mr Jes Captain
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:51 pm
Itami
ToQGers have pretty boring suits and the helmets are just awful. I've grown to ignore their helmets and suits in general. A form of standing them I guess. But it is still a pretty ugly design to me overall. Drive I don't know how it looks yet but the car motif worries me, especially since it looks like it is using the car motif just like ToQGer is doing the train one.
From what I heard the girl who needed Wizard's magic to survive. Harumi? I am so bad with names. I've heard she had other things she had to do sometimes so that is why she was almost never around. I think the issue of filler eps goes back a long way with Kamen Rider. While it is good to have something to break up the flow now and again, a lot of them had issues with a lot not really going on for a bit or things advancing, just lingering and waiting for one ep to really push stuff for a moment then linger on something new. Gaim has been wonderful since it doesn't do that much. It keeps pressing forward.
It is a bit of a mess up since we didn't see him much, but given how good the fight leading up to it was and that weight stuff I am content with it. One thing that bothered me with Wizard since we are bringing it up as examples comparing it to Gaim was that no one ever became a Phantom. After a while it loses that believability. If everyone is saved, then by the middle and near-end you have no worries about people. The tension is gone because they will always somehow save them. Even
Beast losing his driver and the one girl dying
isn't a big thing because you knew it would be fixed in some way by the next movie. Just like they have been doing since Double.
The partner who isn't fully human who dies but then isn't dead
bit got really played out, and it is predictable when the end result of that plotline always comes out the same. Having death return puts some weight on that though. Kyoryuger I won't watch
but I will commend it on having some people like that mentor bird monster die. Something Sentai has lacked but had such weight was the consequences for being evil. Dragon ranger's death is still in my mind, as is Abarekiller. They were assholes who redeemed themselves and then died tragically, but not before making sure to do the right things.
Hopefully they make something since he is pretty popular. If not for this then the final Gaim movie when he teams up with Drive they could give Kaito something. Perhaps.
I'm not a big fan of the designs either nor have a watched more than clips of the series, so beyond the initial designs I don't know much about it. I do kinda like the conductor and ticket though. Those two are pretty hilarious. I'm not sure about Drive. I can see what you mean about the transformation gimmick being a ripoff of ToQGer, but since we've only seen very blurry scans of the suit I'd say it's a little too early to tell.
You mean Koyomi? xd lol It's cool, I'm a public relations graduate and I'm just as horrible with names. Anyway, I really didn't notice much of a difference about her missing from scenes. But then again, she was more of a background character and like Phillip from KR Double, she was only made relevant to the plot again in the climax and finale. Still wish I got to see more of Dark Koyomi/Kamen Rider Wiseman (II) though. >.< I see what you mean about filler and I agree. It's like medicine, in small doses it's fine and even healthy for you, but if you take to much of it you'll end up hurting yourself more. Which we have seen from time and time again in Wizard for example.
I was a pretty good fight, with a lot of build up behind it and I see what you mean about believability. It might be a Japanese kids' show, but if you extend you suspension of disbelief too much and don't have proper consequences for your actions, then it becomes dull and sends the wrong message like you said. Good examples with the spoilers, but I will say that Koyomi never did come back. But as we've agreed before, Sentai and Kamen Rider does seem to lack a sense consequence. [spolier] which is way I was pretty annoyed when Torin (Kyoryuger's mentor) "came back" at the end of "They're back! 100 Years After" Candeilla was a nice touch though. Which is why Dragon Ranger and AbareKiller will always remain badass as some of the best memorable characters in the series.
lol I doubt they will though. A Kachidoki-style heavy armor that has a banana motif would be pretty cool, but I don't think we'll ever see it unless it's fan art or something like that. Toei seriously prove us smarks wrong and surprise us, dammit! mad
lol You know in reading over that, we really need something to argue/disagree about something more. We always tend to agree. xd
Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:12 pm
Overall I'm personally enjoying the show as well, and given from the original premise, and coming off of the long drawn out series that was Wizard I was originally having very low expectations of this series. But honestly It's become one of if not my favorite Heisei Rider series in years.
However If I had a gripe about anything it's suits having a commonly reused element that often makes most of the designs eerily similar and takes away a fair amount of significance between each Rider design. The set that avoids this is usually the secondary class riders and energy riders who at least don't have the luxury of arm changing and pretty much stay to their base Lockseed. However most of them ended becoming pretty irrelevant to the Main 4...well 3 riders.
As for Micchy's new leaked final upgrade, it shares everything I like and hate about Kamen Rider Zeronos Zero Form. As a form it contributes greatly to both the character and somewhat to the overarching character element into the story, seeing that it's a rare lock seed and possess Redue's weapon I'm interested into how Micchy gains it and how it relates to Redue despite it's very last minute inclusion to the story. Aesthetically however, the long absence of Ryugen now makes sense and overall as upgrade it seems a little cheap since honestly NOTHING NEW has been added. Overall it's a amalgam of Grape, Kiwi arms with a minor recolor design (Similar to Zero form I believe). But regardless it's a still fairly better than Baron Lemon Energy arms in terms of sheer laziness with said upgrade. The suit actor without a doubt makes the form his own, but the fact that it's the third rehashed use of the Lemon ELS it has very little to no individuality on it;s own.
Hopefully however the scan with Kaitou might mean that his infection could allow him to create his own special fruit and with the Sengoku Driver he can generate a final upgrade for him to fight on par with Kiwami and Yomotsugheri Arms.
On the topic of Sentai on the other hand, ToQger is honestly the exact opposite of how I feel for Kyoryuger. Designs are completely horrid, but for a sentai it works with the Norikae Change. Overall I don't cast as much; however the story and villain dynamics are so far fairly better written than Kyoryugers. In all honesty while Kobayashi's slow burn plots often drag the stories further than usual (Thinking of OOO's) they often come with a good pay off in its fairly concrete writing.
Content wise, ToQger surprisingly keeps me entertained, while Aesthetically I generally don't care for it at all. But it works well in conjunction with Kamen Rider Gaim on it's Super Hero time set up.
I actually liked the Gokaiger suits pretty quickly myself, but yeah that is the pattern in modern Toku stuff. They release the outfits, and either you adapt to stand them or to like them. Most the time. Still not enjoying the ToQGer outfits and I'm very worried about Kamen Rider Drive. Gaim's suits work though after I got use to them.
People like using Wizard as an example and it was probably one of the worst offenders of having too much "nothing is going on", but then a lot of them have been like that. Fourze, OOO, they all had stretches where it felt like I was waiting on stuff. Wizard just had a lot more of it (probably because the one actress was busy a lot, same problem that happened to Kabuto really).
I agree. Zangetsu really wasn't on screen enough. Just when you learned more about him and things were picking up he became the Shin version. I think his death was a good part of things but it would have been nice if he had more use after being out of commission for a few eps like you said. Also the Zangetsu-shin bit reminds me of one thing I don't like. Baron uses the lemon energy lockseed but it becomes different for him. When Micchy used the melon energy one it should have become different too. I don't like the weirdness of that. Just seems off to me.
I don't see him getting one. It would have been nice, but with the direction the show went he didn't end up the primary rider threat so Micchy is going to have the crazy final form to fight him with
Though it looks like Kaito might eat one of the fruits or something and become an overlord himself.
lol Needless to say, it quickly grew on me after a while. But what's so wrong about Drive and ToQGer?
I only used Wizard since it was the first series to pop in my head when I was typing, but I agree, there does seem to be a lot of needless filler in most of the Toku we see now. I'm perfectly okay with something fun or different or to breakup darker elements with some much needed humor. I'm confused. Which Wizard actress was busy a lot during shooting? The only one I know about for sure is the actor for Professor Ryouma/KR Duke, but he's in Gaim. confused
Basically yeah, destroying a rider's powers or killing a character to show the consequences of our actions, like you said is fine. I actually like that element of Gaim, but to take a rider out after you spent all that time of bringing him back from the forest seemed like a waste, just like Takatora immediately going to the Genesis Driver without showing more of his original form. I like what the "butcher" is trying to do, I just think that part was a messed up. Even if I like where the result is going…. if that makes any sense. sweatdrop
Me either, which I'm kinda disappointed about since he's one of my favorite characters. Though I can see why Micchy getting that super evil form works though.
I saw that too. But we won't know anything more for sure until either more scans are leaked or it's explained in the show.
I can kinda understand why Gaim has been really short sided with Zangetsu's base form, and really it's no different than how they tried to hype up Gridon as one of the primary characters but pretty much made him a very irrelevant rider. Zangetsu in almost every way shape and form is pretty much a pallet swap for Gaim. Unlike Baron and Ryugen who have semi unique base forms, Gaim and Zangetsu share almost everything except the helmet, the fruit weapon, and color scheme. Everything else from the faceplate theme, the musou saber, the Melon arms design being a minor sharper redesign of Orange arms, and the two sharing a common motif being Japanese Shogun. I guess Urobutcher wanted to establish the character before quickly showing off the more notable and edgier Zangetsu Shin in order to quickly sell out the Genesis Driver. (Sometimes the show has to do things to sell toys too you know).
However I think a lot of confuse Takatora's status and role as a character in this series, and through Micchy I realized who is ultimately the more important and thus who's characterization contributes to whom. The establishment of Takatora's character is more or less in relation to both Kouta and Micchy, established as both the kind of insurmountable wall and challenge that each had to overcome in their own way. Kouta's strength as of now would've suggested that he finally surpassed Takatora; while Micchy's sanity is suffering to finally break free of his brother's shadow. Takatora's supposed death is supposed to help with the progression of their individual characters and it's a lot different from traditional story telling where usually in sibling pairs the younger sibling always play second fiddle to the big brother character who is the obvious badass.
Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:09 pm
GalavantMan
Mr Jes
Itami
I actually liked the Gokaiger suits pretty quickly myself, but yeah that is the pattern in modern Toku stuff. They release the outfits, and either you adapt to stand them or to like them. Most the time. Still not enjoying the ToQGer outfits and I'm very worried about Kamen Rider Drive. Gaim's suits work though after I got use to them.
People like using Wizard as an example and it was probably one of the worst offenders of having too much "nothing is going on", but then a lot of them have been like that. Fourze, OOO, they all had stretches where it felt like I was waiting on stuff. Wizard just had a lot more of it (probably because the one actress was busy a lot, same problem that happened to Kabuto really).
I agree. Zangetsu really wasn't on screen enough. Just when you learned more about him and things were picking up he became the Shin version. I think his death was a good part of things but it would have been nice if he had more use after being out of commission for a few eps like you said. Also the Zangetsu-shin bit reminds me of one thing I don't like. Baron uses the lemon energy lockseed but it becomes different for him. When Micchy used the melon energy one it should have become different too. I don't like the weirdness of that. Just seems off to me.
I don't see him getting one. It would have been nice, but with the direction the show went he didn't end up the primary rider threat so Micchy is going to have the crazy final form to fight him with
Though it looks like Kaito might eat one of the fruits or something and become an overlord himself.
lol Needless to say, it quickly grew on me after a while. But what's so wrong about Drive and ToQGer?
I only used Wizard since it was the first series to pop in my head when I was typing, but I agree, there does seem to be a lot of needless filler in most of the Toku we see now. I'm perfectly okay with something fun or different or to breakup darker elements with some much needed humor. I'm confused. Which Wizard actress was busy a lot during shooting? The only one I know about for sure is the actor for Professor Ryouma/KR Duke, but he's in Gaim. confused
Basically yeah, destroying a rider's powers or killing a character to show the consequences of our actions, like you said is fine. I actually like that element of Gaim, but to take a rider out after you spent all that time of bringing him back from the forest seemed like a waste, just like Takatora immediately going to the Genesis Driver without showing more of his original form. I like what the "butcher" is trying to do, I just think that part was a messed up. Even if I like where the result is going…. if that makes any sense. sweatdrop
Me either, which I'm kinda disappointed about since he's one of my favorite characters. Though I can see why Micchy getting that super evil form works though.
I saw that too. But we won't know anything more for sure until either more scans are leaked or it's explained in the show.
I can kinda understand why Gaim has been really short sided with Zangetsu's base form, and really it's no different than how they tried to hype up Gridon as one of the primary characters but pretty much made him a very irrelevant rider. Zangetsu in almost every way shape and form is pretty much a pallet swap for Gaim. Unlike Baron and Ryugen who have semi unique base forms, Gaim and Zangetsu share almost everything except the helmet, the fruit weapon, and color scheme. Everything else from the faceplate theme, the musou saber, the Melon arms design being a minor sharper redesign of Orange arms, and the two sharing a common motif being Japanese Shogun. I guess Urobutcher wanted to establish the character before quickly showing off the more notable and edgier Zangetsu Shin in order to quickly sell out the Genesis Driver. (Sometimes the show has to do things to sell toys too you know).
However I think a lot of confuse Takatora's status and role as a character in this series, and through Micchy I realized who is ultimately the more important and thus who's characterization contributes to whom. The establishment of Takatora's character is more or less in relation to both Kouta and Micchy, established as both the kind of insurmountable wall and challenge that each had to overcome in their own way. Kouta's strength as of now would've suggested that he finally surpassed Takatora; while Micchy's sanity is suffering to finally break free of his brother's shadow. Takatora's supposed death is supposed to help with the progression of their individual characters and it's a lot different from traditional story telling where usually in sibling pairs the younger sibling always play second fiddle to the big brother character who is the obvious badass.
Well that's definitely a different way to look at it with Gridon and Zangetsu. But while the latter is definitely a slight pallet swap of the same design I thought his character and experience made up for it. I also thought it was a complete waste of a suit if they were only going to debut Zangestsu-Shin only a few episodes after the original.
I can agree with you that Micchy is arguably more important than Takatora, whose role as you said; was a wall that both Micchy and Kouta had to overcome. However one must remember that they brought back Takatora after he was portrayed and supposedly killed the first time by the other New Generation Riders. Why would you spend all that time nursing him back to health only to "kill" him off again is my question. But like I agreed with Itami, I do think it's a nice touch to loss of Micchy's sanity though.
GalavantMan
Overall I'm personally enjoying the show as well, and given from the original premise, and coming off of the long drawn out series that was Wizard I was originally having very low expectations of this series. But honestly It's become one of if not my favorite Heisei Rider series in years.
However If I had a gripe about anything it's suits having a commonly reused element that often makes most of the designs eerily similar and takes away a fair amount of significance between each Rider design. The set that avoids this is usually the secondary class riders and energy riders who at least don't have the luxury of arm changing and pretty much stay to their base Lockseed. However most of them ended becoming pretty irrelevant to the Main 4...well 3 riders.
As for Micchy's new leaked final upgrade, it shares everything I like and hate about Kamen Rider Zeronos Zero Form. As a form it contributes greatly to both the character and somewhat to the overarching character element into the story, seeing that it's a rare lock seed and possess Redue's weapon I'm interested into how Micchy gains it and how it relates to Redue despite it's very last minute inclusion to the story. Aesthetically however, the long absence of Ryugen now makes sense and overall as upgrade it seems a little cheap since honestly NOTHING NEW has been added. Overall it's a amalgam of Grape, Kiwi arms with a minor recolor design (Similar to Zero form I believe). But regardless it's a still fairly better than Baron Lemon Energy arms in terms of sheer laziness with said upgrade. The suit actor without a doubt makes the form his own, but the fact that it's the third rehashed use of the Lemon ELS it has very little to no individuality on it;s own.
Hopefully however the scan with Kaitou might mean that his infection could allow him to create his own special fruit and with the Sengoku Driver he can generate a final upgrade for him to fight on par with Kiwami and Yomotsugheri Arms.
On the topic of Sentai on the other hand, ToQger is honestly the exact opposite of how I feel for Kyoryuger. Designs are completely horrid, but for a sentai it works with the Norikae Change. Overall I don't cast as much; however the story and villain dynamics are so far fairly better written than Kyoryugers. In all honesty while Kobayashi's slow burn plots often drag the stories further than usual (Thinking of OOO's) they often come with a good pay off in its fairly concrete writing.
Content wise, ToQger surprisingly keeps me entertained, while Aesthetically I generally don't care for it at all. But it works well in conjunction with Kamen Rider Gaim on it's Super Hero time set up.
Guess it just goes to show you that you should never judge a series by its cover. Even if a series like Gaim followed after Wizard's mediocre run. xd
I can where you're going with the constant rehash of designs. I think it in part has to do with that most of the lockseed armor and their corresponding real life suits are designed mix and match (save with the Energy riders) with each other to follow the gimmick of the show. I do tend to agree that most of the cast has become pretty useless as of late, even if I have a soft spot for both Marika and Gridon and wish they'd have a bit more screen time.
I actually kind of of liked Zeronos's Zero Form and didn't even bat an eye when I saw Ryugen's leaked upgrade. I kind of actually like the redesign for some reason since it seems to fit the character more, however cheap it may seem to be. I will also agree that Baron's Lemon Energy arms was also a complete waste. While the color motif and theme of the power theme of the lockseed might suite him well, it was a completely missed opportunity to give him something new. What's more, they gave him a by now completely whored out form that nearly everyone worth mentioning has used. Can anyone think of, say, Kamen Rider Ixa, perhaps?
Let's hope he does something cool with the fruit and his infection, but I doubt we'll see anything cool sense we're so late in the series without any new scan to say anything to the contrary.
I actually thought that the Norikae gimmick was a complete ripoff as it really didn't do anything new aside from swapping out the colors and weapons. It really felt half-assed. While I can't compare ToQGer to Kyoryuger since I have not seen the former in its entirety yet, I will say what made me dislike Kyoryuger was mostly the common complaint about it being centered around one character, with no real contributing character arcs to the other major players.
I have however heard that ToQGer is pretty quirky and definitely has its moments.
I actually liked the Gokaiger suits pretty quickly myself, but yeah that is the pattern in modern Toku stuff. They release the outfits, and either you adapt to stand them or to like them. Most the time. Still not enjoying the ToQGer outfits and I'm very worried about Kamen Rider Drive. Gaim's suits work though after I got use to them.
People like using Wizard as an example and it was probably one of the worst offenders of having too much "nothing is going on", but then a lot of them have been like that. Fourze, OOO, they all had stretches where it felt like I was waiting on stuff. Wizard just had a lot more of it (probably because the one actress was busy a lot, same problem that happened to Kabuto really).
I agree. Zangetsu really wasn't on screen enough. Just when you learned more about him and things were picking up he became the Shin version. I think his death was a good part of things but it would have been nice if he had more use after being out of commission for a few eps like you said. Also the Zangetsu-shin bit reminds me of one thing I don't like. Baron uses the lemon energy lockseed but it becomes different for him. When Micchy used the melon energy one it should have become different too. I don't like the weirdness of that. Just seems off to me.
I don't see him getting one. It would have been nice, but with the direction the show went he didn't end up the primary rider threat so Micchy is going to have the crazy final form to fight him with
Though it looks like Kaito might eat one of the fruits or something and become an overlord himself.
lol Needless to say, it quickly grew on me after a while. But what's so wrong about Drive and ToQGer?
I only used Wizard since it was the first series to pop in my head when I was typing, but I agree, there does seem to be a lot of needless filler in most of the Toku we see now. I'm perfectly okay with something fun or different or to breakup darker elements with some much needed humor. I'm confused. Which Wizard actress was busy a lot during shooting? The only one I know about for sure is the actor for Professor Ryouma/KR Duke, but he's in Gaim. confused
Basically yeah, destroying a rider's powers or killing a character to show the consequences of our actions, like you said is fine. I actually like that element of Gaim, but to take a rider out after you spent all that time of bringing him back from the forest seemed like a waste, just like Takatora immediately going to the Genesis Driver without showing more of his original form. I like what the "butcher" is trying to do, I just think that part was a messed up. Even if I like where the result is going…. if that makes any sense. sweatdrop
Me either, which I'm kinda disappointed about since he's one of my favorite characters. Though I can see why Micchy getting that super evil form works though.
I saw that too. But we won't know anything more for sure until either more scans are leaked or it's explained in the show.
I can kinda understand why Gaim has been really short sided with Zangetsu's base form, and really it's no different than how they tried to hype up Gridon as one of the primary characters but pretty much made him a very irrelevant rider. Zangetsu in almost every way shape and form is pretty much a pallet swap for Gaim. Unlike Baron and Ryugen who have semi unique base forms, Gaim and Zangetsu share almost everything except the helmet, the fruit weapon, and color scheme. Everything else from the faceplate theme, the musou saber, the Melon arms design being a minor sharper redesign of Orange arms, and the two sharing a common motif being Japanese Shogun. I guess Urobutcher wanted to establish the character before quickly showing off the more notable and edgier Zangetsu Shin in order to quickly sell out the Genesis Driver. (Sometimes the show has to do things to sell toys too you know).
However I think a lot of confuse Takatora's status and role as a character in this series, and through Micchy I realized who is ultimately the more important and thus who's characterization contributes to whom. The establishment of Takatora's character is more or less in relation to both Kouta and Micchy, established as both the kind of insurmountable wall and challenge that each had to overcome in their own way. Kouta's strength as of now would've suggested that he finally surpassed Takatora; while Micchy's sanity is suffering to finally break free of his brother's shadow. Takatora's supposed death is supposed to help with the progression of their individual characters and it's a lot different from traditional story telling where usually in sibling pairs the younger sibling always play second fiddle to the big brother character who is the obvious badass.
Well that's definitely a different way to look at it with Gridon and Zangetsu. But while the latter is definitely a slight pallet swap of the same design I thought his character and experience made up for it. I also thought it was a complete waste of a suit if they were only going to debut Zangestsu-Shin only a few episodes after the original.
I can agree with you that Micchy is arguably more important than Takatora, whose role as you said; was a wall that both Micchy and Kouta had to overcome. However one must remember that they brought back Takatora after he was portrayed and supposedly killed the first time by the other New Generation Riders. Why would you spend all that time nursing him back to health only to "kill" him off again is my question. But like I agreed with Itami, I do think it's a nice touch to loss of Micchy's sanity though.
GalavantMan
Overall I'm personally enjoying the show as well, and given from the original premise, and coming off of the long drawn out series that was Wizard I was originally having very low expectations of this series. But honestly It's become one of if not my favorite Heisei Rider series in years.
However If I had a gripe about anything it's suits having a commonly reused element that often makes most of the designs eerily similar and takes away a fair amount of significance between each Rider design. The set that avoids this is usually the secondary class riders and energy riders who at least don't have the luxury of arm changing and pretty much stay to their base Lockseed. However most of them ended becoming pretty irrelevant to the Main 4...well 3 riders.
As for Micchy's new leaked final upgrade, it shares everything I like and hate about Kamen Rider Zeronos Zero Form. As a form it contributes greatly to both the character and somewhat to the overarching character element into the story, seeing that it's a rare lock seed and possess Redue's weapon I'm interested into how Micchy gains it and how it relates to Redue despite it's very last minute inclusion to the story. Aesthetically however, the long absence of Ryugen now makes sense and overall as upgrade it seems a little cheap since honestly NOTHING NEW has been added. Overall it's a amalgam of Grape, Kiwi arms with a minor recolor design (Similar to Zero form I believe). But regardless it's a still fairly better than Baron Lemon Energy arms in terms of sheer laziness with said upgrade. The suit actor without a doubt makes the form his own, but the fact that it's the third rehashed use of the Lemon ELS it has very little to no individuality on it;s own.
Hopefully however the scan with Kaitou might mean that his infection could allow him to create his own special fruit and with the Sengoku Driver he can generate a final upgrade for him to fight on par with Kiwami and Yomotsugheri Arms.
On the topic of Sentai on the other hand, ToQger is honestly the exact opposite of how I feel for Kyoryuger. Designs are completely horrid, but for a sentai it works with the Norikae Change. Overall I don't cast as much; however the story and villain dynamics are so far fairly better written than Kyoryugers. In all honesty while Kobayashi's slow burn plots often drag the stories further than usual (Thinking of OOO's) they often come with a good pay off in its fairly concrete writing.
Content wise, ToQger surprisingly keeps me entertained, while Aesthetically I generally don't care for it at all. But it works well in conjunction with Kamen Rider Gaim on it's Super Hero time set up.
Guess it just goes to show you that you should never judge a series by its cover. Even if a series like Gaim followed after Wizard's mediocre run. xd
I can where you're going with the constant rehash of designs. I think it in part has to do with that most of the lockseed armor and their corresponding real life suits are designed mix and match (save with the Energy riders) with each other to follow the gimmick of the show. I do tend to agree that most of the cast has become pretty useless as of late, even if I have a soft spot for both Marika and Gridon and wish they'd have a bit more screen time.
I actually kind of of liked Zeronos's Zero Form and didn't even bat an eye when I saw Ryugen's leaked upgrade. I kind of actually like the redesign for some reason since it seems to fit the character more, however cheap it may seem to be. I will also agree that Baron's Lemon Energy arms was also a complete waste. While the color motif and theme of the power theme of the lockseed might suite him well, it was a completely missed opportunity to give him something new. What's more, they gave him a by now completely whored out form that nearly everyone worth mentioning has used. Can anyone think of, say, Kamen Rider Ixa, perhaps?
Let's hope he does something cool with the fruit and his infection, but I doubt we'll see anything cool sense we're so late in the series without any new scan to say anything to the contrary.
I actually thought that the Norikae gimmick was a complete ripoff as it really didn't do anything new aside from swapping out the colors and weapons. It really felt half-assed. While I can't compare ToQGer to Kyoryuger since I have not seen the former in its entirety yet, I will say what made me dislike Kyoryuger was mostly the common complaint about it being centered around one character, with no real contributing character arcs to the other major players.
I have however heard that ToQGer is pretty quirky and definitely has its moments.
Considering that we are getting Yomosutgehri this late in the series and given that after episode 40, we will have about 2-3 more in this month. (No episodes this week) We would still be able to have a last minute scan for a Baron upgrade for the last month. Though I won't be putting my hopes that high considering that we never really get a Rider update this late in the series, But looking at Yomosutgehri, it was a simple paint job with a lot of already existing elements so I don't think that a Baron Upgrade is entirely out of the question at this point.
As for Sentai with Kyoryuger, I loved the premise, I love the sentai, and the colorful cast of characters is easily it's biggest selling point; HOWEVER!! I believe it disappointed me at everything else. Especially given how the series ended and what was the engame of the villains. Overall it left a very similar impression to how I feel about Go-Onger. It had a the potential to be something great but one big element that kept it from being anything more than mediocre... and that is KyoryuRed.
Kiryu Daigo is another loud, head charge Red Senshi; however when the plot just gives way and focus and dedicate all to how his team and the conflict ultimately revolves around him just made him the biggest and most unnecessary spotlight hog in the show. Which in this show is a damn shame because his team is absolutely colorful and memorable and has some of the most interesting and well established individual sentai members in a long time. What's ultimately worse is that heavily forced AmyXDaigo pairing that was given to us at the very end of the series, let alone the final baddie Deboth who was hyped throughout the series ultimately came too as a fairly disappointing end game villain. At least with ToQGers despite how people are on the fence with the sentai iteself. The story itself is actually pretty interesting, cohesive and the villains so far are better invested and better developed as akin to Shinkenger's and Go-Busters cast of villains.
Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:00 pm
GalavantMan
Considering that we are getting Yomosutgehri this late in the series and given that after episode 40, we will have about 2-3 more in this month. (No episodes this week) We would still be able to have a last minute scan for a Baron upgrade for the last month. Though I won't be putting my hopes that high considering that we never really get a Rider update this late in the series, But looking at Yomosutgehri, it was a simple paint job with a lot of already existing elements so I don't think that a Baron Upgrade is entirely out of the question at this point.
As for Sentai with Kyoryuger, I loved the premise, I love the sentai, and the colorful cast of characters is easily it's biggest selling point; HOWEVER!! I believe it disappointed me at everything else. Especially given how the series ended and what was the engame of the villains. Overall it left a very similar impression to how I feel about Go-Onger. It had a the potential to be something great but one big element that kept it from being anything more than mediocre... and that is KyoryuRed.
Kiryu Daigo is another loud, head charge Red Senshi; however when the plot just gives way and focus and dedicate all to how his team and the conflict ultimately revolves around him just made him the biggest and most unnecessary spotlight hog in the show. Which in this show is a damn shame because his team is absolutely colorful and memorable and has some of the most interesting and well established individual sentai members in a long time. What's ultimately worse is that heavily forced AmyXDaigo pairing that was given to us at the very end of the series, let alone the final baddie Deboth who was hyped throughout the series ultimately came too as a fairly disappointing end game villain. At least with ToQGers despite how people are on the fence with the sentai iteself. The story itself is actually pretty interesting, cohesive and the villains so far are better invested and better developed as akin to Shinkenger's and Go-Busters cast of villains.
Yomosutgehri Arms was actually a real surprise to me, almost makes me think it was late addition like Baron's Lemon Energy arms was. But if we were to get a scan of Baron's supposed Final Form, we would have to see it pretty soon, wouldn't we? Like in the next few weeks? I doubt we'll get anything since we can clearly see Baron fighting the Rosyuo in his Lemon Energy armor in scans though. But like you said, I guess it's not completely out of the question to get something at this point, however low the odds may be. Again I'm not particularly found of how they IXA'd him with the armor either. I actually like the characters surrounding IXA and the amor too, which is a shame.
I liked Kyouryuger for what it was. It had good designs, wonderfully developed, colorful characters and honestly the little kid in me really enjoyed the "Earth's melody" that the show was trying to explore. Great potential up until the end, but it was ultimately fairly wasteful and forgetful.
Exactly. The kids might like Daigo alright as a the typical fiery Red Senshi, but to me there was way to much emphasis on his character and took away from the the more well-developed, memorable characters the show surprisingly had. I don't even get why they forced that pairing on us. It came from completely left field and if anything I thought that their might be hint of a possible pairing between Daigo and KyouruViolet (forget her name atm). Aside from the final fight with Deboth, I thought the battle between KyoryuGold and Degold quiet enjoyable in the end.
Hmm, maybe I should give ToQGer a chance then?
Mr Jes Captain
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Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:19 pm
Mr Jes
I'm not a big fan of the designs either nor have a watched more than clips of the series, so beyond the initial designs I don't know much about it. I do kinda like the conductor and ticket though. Those two are pretty hilarious. I'm not sure about Drive. I can see what you mean about the transformation gimmick being a ripoff of ToQGer, but since we've only seen very blurry scans of the suit I'd say it's a little too early to tell.
You mean Koyomi? xd lol It's cool, I'm a public relations graduate and I'm just as horrible with names. Anyway, I really didn't notice much of a difference about her missing from scenes. But then again, she was more of a background character and like Phillip from KR Double, she was only made relevant to the plot again in the climax and finale. Still wish I got to see more of Dark Koyomi/Kamen Rider Wiseman (II) though. >.< I see what you mean about filler and I agree. It's like medicine, in small doses it's fine and even healthy for you, but if you take to much of it you'll end up hurting yourself more. Which we have seen from time and time again in Wizard for example.
I was a pretty good fight, with a lot of build up behind it and I see what you mean about believability. It might be a Japanese kids' show, but if you extend you suspension of disbelief too much and don't have proper consequences for your actions, then it becomes dull and sends the wrong message like you said. Good examples with the spoilers, but I will say that Koyomi never did come back. But as we've agreed before, Sentai and Kamen Rider does seem to lack a sense consequence. [spolier] which is way I was pretty annoyed when Torin (Kyoryuger's mentor) "came back" at the end of "They're back! 100 Years After" Candeilla was a nice touch though. Which is why Dragon Ranger and AbareKiller will always remain badass as some of the best memorable characters in the series.
lol I doubt they will though. A Kachidoki-style heavy armor that has a banana motif would be pretty cool, but I don't think we'll ever see it unless it's fan art or something like that. Toei seriously prove us smarks wrong and surprise us, dammit! mad
lol You know in reading over that, we really need something to argue/disagree about something more. We always tend to agree. xd
They are kinda meh to me. I can ignore them, and they are better than in-the-way wagon or whatever her name is, but I'm mostly eh on their characters. There was a scan (a clearer one I saw today) showing off some toy stuff. Looks a lot like ToQGer with little car things that he will probably swipe or scan in some way to change modes. We'll see how they are used, but it certainly feels "ToQGer, but rider, with cars instead of trains" so far cat_gonk
I told you I'm bad with names lol yeah her. I think she was meant to have more of a role, but when she couldn't make the filming they just sort of bulled their way through extending time until the ending plot arch stuff. Since it really felt like we should care a lot more about her by that point but given she was never really around that was a tough thing to sell.
I still don't buy the "It is a kids show" excuse for these types of shows. Sure it is, but it has had dark and deep tones before. Doesn't need to drip with it and having the comic side stuff is good, but if it has no consequences to it then it really is just being watered down. If you know every week the villains won't really harm anyone but themselves, then it loses a bit of it's edge and appeal. Koyomi is an exception with that, which did shock me, but it was still something I saw coming a mile away what happened to her near the end.
We probably won't see one, but at least you have your imagination lol I'm enjoying our agreement with this series right now. Wasn't very fun talking Double before lol I'm not one to enjoy it spinning that way, so it is good that we're on the same page I think.