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 Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:27 am
I know Jesus said to preach the Gospel to everyone, but I think I might have stumbled across some people God doesn't want us to reach. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm misreading things ... maybe you people can find fault in my logic. Bear with me a moment.
==========
I was thinking about the Holy Ghost. In Matthew 12:31-32, and then again in Mark 3:28-30, and still again in Luke 12:10, Jesus says that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven. Period. Now, I'm Protestant, and don't go in for this "mortal sin" business ... but if Jesus says something is unforgivable, I'm inclined to believe Him.
But ... what exactly is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit? There's a lot of different answers. Over the years, people have come up with several possibilities. Refusing to accept the Spirit's work in us (convicting us and bringing us to accept Christ) is the most famous, and probably most logical ...
... but what about something simpler? Something like denying the Holy Ghost's divinity? Or His personality? Jesus frequently referred to the Spirit as a person, as in "he will teach you", and in Acts Peter says that Ananias and Sapphira have lied to the Holy Spirit, and therefore lied to God. (Acts 5:3-4). The Holy Ghost is God, that's clear. So, saying that He is not God would be blasphemy.
The reason that's relevant is that there's a lot of groups and individuals who deny the Spirit's divinity or personality. The Jehovah's Witnesses are the most famous; to them, "holy spirit" (note the lowercase) is not a part of the Trinity (which they call unreasonable and heretical), and is not a person or personality. To them, "holy spirit" is God's "invisible active force", the tool Jehovah uses to accomplish His goals. In the eyes of the Witnesses, the Holy Spirit is not God.
Um ... that's blasphemy. That's blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. I can't see anything else to call it.
So ... should we really witness to these people? It seems kind of cruel, in a way. Because if they have committed that unpardonable sin, then the most we can say is "you're going to Hell. Yeah, I know you don't believe in Hell, but you're going there anyway, and there's no hope for you." And even if they repent and accept Jesus, they're not going to Heaven, because they insulted the Holy Ghost.
The most we could give them at that point would be a false hope, a belief in a Heaven that they would never see. That would make us liars in the name of God.
==========
Am I wrong? Is my logic flawed? If so, I'd love to know where my error lies. I'd hate to think that people who once believed the Holy Ghost was nothing special, but who have since then come to Christ and embraced Him fully, will never see Heaven ... but the Word of God isn't based on what I want, but on what God wants. It's also not based on my understanding, thank Heavens (pardon the pun), but on God's thoughts.
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 2:07 pm
Jesus also told Peter (and this happened after the ressurection and asscension of Jesus) He asked Peter not once but three times; 'If you love Me, then feed My sheep!'
Jesus also instructed His apostiles to go unto all the world and to preach the gospel to not just the Jews, but the Gentiles, and the Greeks, etc...
And then there is Jesus' final command that He gave everyone of us; and that is: To love one another as the Lord God has loved you!
So what I am getting at here is that no matter a persons personal view of God, Jesus, the Holy Ghost, heaven or hell; We as Christians as suppose to do what is said for us to do and that is too spread the gospel of Christ Jesus, and also what 1 Peter 3:15 states, and that is {K.J.V.}
V 15 -"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts; and be ready 'ALWAYS' to give an answer to 'EVERY' man that asketh you a reason of the 'HOPE' that is in 'YOU' with meekness and fear:"
1 Peter 3:16 Having a good conscience; that whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, that may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
V17 - For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
V18 - For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
V 19 - By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison:
v 20 - Which sometime were 'DISOBEDIENT,' when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
V 21 - The like figure whereunto even baptism doth give also now save us (not putting away the filth of flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God.) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
V 22 - Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
~ALSO~
1 Peter 4:1~14;
Which I would suggest you reading as well rather than me take the time to type it all out.
But pay close attention to verse's 5 thru 11.
Maybe then you'll find all your answers that your lookin' for hun.
Christian huggles,
~Lyn~
heart
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2014 4:04 pm
And YOUR point is......
'ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALLEN SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD'
Including you and me. That is why there is no pointless witnessing;
because we ALL can come to the CROSS and be forgiven for ALL OF OUR SINS, and per the holy bible, WE WILL ALL HAVE OUR SINS WASHED AWAY AND FORGIVEN OF OUR TRESPASSES, by simply believing in Jesus as the Son of God, who died on the cross for all of our sins and rose the third day and was seen by great multitudes of people and then ascended into heaven to take His place at the right hand side of God the Father who sent to us (BELIEVERS in FAITH) a comforter by the name of the Holy Ghost, where Peter and a 120 other people waited in the upper room in Jeresalem for the day of penticost when the Holy Spirit or Ghost came down upon each of them that were there.
I am a recent convert from a strict catholic upbringing, I had a few discussions with a mutual friend of ours, and I won't name names (TSK),
and came 'The Romans Road' with this person leading me down it to trust and believe in Jesus Christ as my personal Lord, Savior, and Redeemer of my soul.
WHO THE HECK ARE YOU TO SAY WHO GETS TO HEAVEN OR WHO GOES TO HECK?
That is NOT up to YOU!
That is up to God.
Our job as Christians is too preach the gospel of Christ Jesus throughout and around this world, and to walk circumspectly (and if I mis-spelled that oh well) and to let our Light So Shine To Others That They Will Want What We Have; Which is Jesus as our Savior!
I don't know about you, but for me;
"Greater is He that is in me, than he that is in this world!" 1 John 4:4.
Later GatorDEbaiter.
Coop.
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:44 am
Woodlyn Fairee Maybe then you'll find all your answers that your lookin' for hun. Christian huggles, ~Lyn~ heart Um, Woodlyn? Tiny little side-note here ... I can't respond to your PM if you've got your PMs set to "friends only". sweatdrop So, if I haven't responded, it's not that I'm ignoring you. But the super-short answer is "no". I'll not go further than that publicly. Now, having looked over your verses ... yes, I did pull up 1 Peter 4 and reread that ... I have to say, if there's a connection between them and my question, I don't see it. Maybe I'm dense ... actually, there's no "maybe" about it; I am dense. It does look related to another situation I'm in, I'll certainly admit ... but not to this. Help me out here, please. And Crypt- Mr. Cooper (sorry, I keep thinking of some early 90s sitcom), I'm not placing myself in the position of the judge. You're right in that we've all sinned, I'll never argue that. Certainly I'm not perfect -- I think by now I've adequately demonstrated my own fallibility. And I'm not trying to judge or condemn anyone else. What I'm asking is, that business about "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit". I mean, seriously. Jesus (not Paul, not Peter) tells us in each of the synoptic gospels that that particular sin won't be forgiven. Any sin committed against the Son is forgiven, but not a sin committed against the Holy Ghost. So, how does that work? Especially for people who, like the Witnesses, deny the Spirit? Or maybe some Southern Baptist deacon who condemns the Pentecostals down the street and calls what they do "nonsense"? How does the Lord deal with this? Is this forgiven or no? Here's what I can't picture. One of these people -- I'll return to the JWs -- dies, having accepted Christ, and goes to Heaven. The Father is happy they're there, the Son is happy they're there, the Spirit is ... kinda grumpy about it. Can any of you picture that? I can't. I typed it out, and I still can't imagine it. So, if Jesus says there's an unforgivable sin ... and meaning no disrespect to Him and His "great commission" ... how would you handle that with, again, some of these Spirit-deniers? Is there hope for them? If there is, great, but if not, would it not be cruel to give them a false hope? And just so you people know ... cults and world religions have long been an interest of mine. I'm not going to sit here and call myself an expert on such things; I'm not that vain. But I do try to know the beliefs and mind-sets of the people I deal with. See, given the opportunity, I will witness to those I can. So, if indeed my theory is right (which I very much hope it isn't, but I still haven't seen a proper debunking), then I'm indeed guilty of spreading that "false hope". ========== One other thing, though ... if I may. And I wouldn't have brought this up at all, but you kinda made it personal with your question. Crypt Keeper 2010 WHO THE HECK ARE YOU TO SAY WHO GETS TO HEAVEN OR WHO GOES TO HECK? That is NOT up to YOU! That is up to God. It's not up to me to judge who goes up and who goes down. I don't have the right to decide such a thing. I wouldn't want that kind of authority. But to say who's going in which direction ... I'll tell you "who the heck" I am. I'm a representative of the God who said, in Ezekiel 3:18-19, that I was personally responsible for everybody I didn't warn. I'm a follower of the One who talked more about Hell than anybody else in the entire Bible. I'm a servant of the Ultimate Judge, trying to fulfill His instruction and prevent people from taking the Down elevator. I'm a disciple of the King of Kings, and if He says "warn people about Hell", I'm gonna do it!Just like you, just like Woodlyn, just like everybody who claims the name of Christ ... I'm trying to follow His teaching. I don't like talking about Hell, and the thought of anyone going there is a miserable, heartbreaking thing to contemplate ... but that doesn't change its reality. Christians receive enough flak from people who think we're the ones judging. We're not; we're just passing on a message. But they don't understand that, or want to understand. Certainly, we Christians don't need to be giving each other the same hard time. ...............................................................................................................'Bait
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:13 pm
Dragonbait Woodlyn Fairee Maybe then you'll find all your answers that your lookin' for hun. Christian huggles, ~Lyn~ heart Um, Woodlyn? Tiny little side-note here ... I can't respond to your PM if you've got your PMs set to "friends only". sweatdrop So, if I haven't responded, it's not that I'm ignoring you. But the super-short answer is "no". I'll not go further than that publicly. Now, having looked over your verses ... yes, I did pull up 1 Peter 4 and reread that ... I have to say, if there's a connection between them and my question, I don't see it. Maybe I'm dense ... actually, there's no "maybe" about it; I am dense. It does look related to another situation I'm in, I'll certainly admit ... but not to this. Help me out here, please. And Crypt- Mr. Cooper (sorry, I keep thinking of some early 90s sitcom), I'm not placing myself in the position of the judge. You're right in that we've all sinned, I'll never argue that. Certainly I'm not perfect -- I think by now I've adequately demonstrated my own fallibility. And I'm not trying to judge or condemn anyone else. What I'm asking is, that business about "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit". I mean, seriously. Jesus (not Paul, not Peter) tells us in each of the synoptic gospels that that particular sin won't be forgiven. Any sin committed against the Son is forgiven, but not a sin committed against the Holy Ghost. So, how does that work? Especially for people who, like the Witnesses, deny the Spirit? Or maybe some Southern Baptist deacon who condemns the Pentecostals down the street and calls what they do "nonsense"? How does the Lord deal with this? Is this forgiven or no? Here's what I can't picture. One of these people -- I'll return to the JWs -- dies, having accepted Christ, and goes to Heaven. The Father is happy they're there, the Son is happy they're there, the Spirit is ... kinda grumpy about it. Can any of you picture that? I can't. I typed it out, and I still can't imagine it. So, if Jesus says there's an unforgivable sin ... and meaning no disrespect to Him and His "great commission" ... how would you handle that with, again, some of these Spirit-deniers? Is there hope for them? If there is, great, but if not, would it not be cruel to give them a false hope? And just so you people know ... cults and world religions have long been an interest of mine. I'm not going to sit here and call myself an expert on such things; I'm not that vain. But I do try to know the beliefs and mind-sets of the people I deal with. See, given the opportunity, I will witness to those I can. So, if indeed my theory is right (which I very much hope it isn't, but I still haven't seen a proper debunking), then I'm indeed guilty of spreading that "false hope". ========== One other thing, though ... if I may. And I wouldn't have brought this up at all, but you kinda made it personal with your question. Crypt Keeper 2010 WHO THE HECK ARE YOU TO SAY WHO GETS TO HEAVEN OR WHO GOES TO HECK? That is NOT up to YOU! That is up to God. It's not up to me to judge who goes up and who goes down. I don't have the right to decide such a thing. I wouldn't want that kind of authority. But to say who's going in which direction ... I'll tell you "who the heck" I am. I'm a representative of the God who said, in Ezekiel 3:18-19, that I was personally responsible for everybody I didn't warn. I'm a follower of the One who talked more about Hell than anybody else in the entire Bible. I'm a servant of the Ultimate Judge, trying to fulfill His instruction and prevent people from taking the Down elevator. I'm a disciple of the King of Kings, and if He says "warn people about Hell", I'm gonna do it!Just like you, just like Woodlyn, just like everybody who claims the name of Christ ... I'm trying to follow His teaching. I don't like talking about Hell, and the thought of anyone going there is a miserable, heartbreaking thing to contemplate ... but that doesn't change its reality. Christians receive enough flak from people who think we're the ones judging. We're not; we're just passing on a message. But they don't understand that, or want to understand. Certainly, we Christians don't need to be giving each other the same hard time. ...............................................................................................................'Bait Okay, from what I have read about the entire idea of 'blasphemy' towards the Holy Ghost or towards God or Jesus. Certainly it is a bad idea to do so in any form of taking the Lord's name in vain; and from what I read in this guild or in 'The Well Guild' from Miss Lyn's look at rabai Gellman's perspective on the Holy Trinity (Yes, a Jew with a good look at all religions from his column) If you blaspheme one it's the same as if you were to blaspheme all of them at once; because God is made up of three enity's - the Father (God), the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost or as best said by a friend of mine: God created man. When He did so, God created man much like the Holy Trinity - (Try and follow me here and drop bread crumbs if we get lost.) God is the "Head" figure of the trinity, Jesus is the flesh or the body of it, and the Holy Spirit is well just that the spirit. So back in Genesis when God said "Let us create man in OUR own image - God gave man a head, a body, and a soul or spirit. (The whole concept is a bit mind blowing at first, but it does make sense.) Now, as far as "Pointless Witnessing", in my personal opinion from what I have read frrom my "CONCORDANCE" in the back of my King James Holy Bible on the entire subject at hand. Per Jesus, Himself; there is no such thing as "Pointless Witnessing" because we as Christian's are too take the Word of God and to carry it throughout the world to all who can hear it or read it and to plant the seeds of Jesus' life, death, resurrection, ascention, redeemption, salvation, and gift of eternal life in heaven with Him when we die. Now if those seeds fall on fertile ground and take hold, then we have done our job per the apostile Paul (" I planted, Apollos watered, but God recieved the increase.") and if those seeds fall on hard ground and never take hold or root, then we are to kick the dust from under our feet and move on to others with the gospel. That is where I find you flawed sir. For so despertly wanting to quit before you even start to try and plant the seed of Jesus' gift of salvation. Now, as I said before. I am a new Christian, and certainly am not the leading role model of witnesses. More of a 'Poster Child' than any thing. I mean before I was saved. I would go out 6 days a week and do what ever I decided to do; get drunk, have sex, never call the woman afterwards, just live like heck 6 days a week and then go to confession once a week, say a handfull of 'Our Father's', and another handfull of 'Hail Mary full of grace', and then take a shot with the priest later at the pub and figured "My life is swell, and I have all the bases covered, and when I die they'll have one heck of a wake for me and I'll lay up in pergetory for a while and that will be it. Then a friend of mine introduced me to Jesus Christ. And right out of my own catholic bible. Things that a priest never had mentioned before. Then my friend lead me down a thing called "Roman's Road", and I accepted Jesus as my personal Lord, Savior, Redeemer, and believe that Jesus washed away all my sins and reconciled my soul and that from here on, my name is written in heaven, and in the 'Lamb's Book of Life', and that when I close my eyes to this earth, I will reopen them before my Lord Jesus in heaven. Now... What if 'My friend' had decided that it was "Pointless to Witness" to me? Your's in Jesus, Coop Send me a friend request if you want.
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:37 pm
It's in "The Well Guild" under the thread forum of 'sermons and other things of interest.'
Rabbi M. Gellman The God Squad Trinity.
I just took the time to re-read it before I came here to post Mister Coop.
But you are right, it is worth the time to read;
and you are also right with your
"What if?"
Question in concerns to someone not sharing the gospel with you sir.
Your friend in the Lord,
Jack W. Fitzbaugh
-aka the-
G P S Guild Mule
(acct-rep.)
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Created In His Image Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 8:05 am
Crypt Keeper 2010 Okay, from what I have read about the entire idea of 'blasphemy' towards the Holy Ghost or towards God or Jesus. Certainly it is a bad idea to do so in any form of taking the Lord's name in vain; and from what I read in this guild or in 'The Well Guild' from Miss Lyn's look at rabai Gellman's perspective on the Holy Trinity (Yes, a Jew with a good look at all religions from his column) I'd sooner trust a Jew to report accurately than most of the alternatives -- after all, Christianity is an outgrowth of Judaism, and Islam claims to be from the same source, but Judaism is where it all got started. Wait ... Rabbi Marc Gellman? God Squad? Hmm ... I think he's quoted in another book I just read. If it's the same guy, then I need to look into this indeed. Quote: If you blaspheme one it's the same as if you were to blaspheme all of them at once; because God is made up of three enity's - the Father (God), the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost or as best said by a friend of mine: God created man. When He did so, God created man much like the Holy Trinity - (Try and follow me here and drop bread crumbs if we get lost.) God is the "Head" figure of the trinity, Jesus is the flesh or the body of it, and the Holy Spirit is well just that the spirit. So back in Genesis when God said "Let us create man in OUR own image - God gave man a head, a body, and a soul or spirit. (The whole concept is a bit mind blowing at first, but it does make sense.) You're telling me to drop bread crumbs on a path I've already trod; I kinda figured that God-component/Man-component analogy out on my own years ago. I should point out, just as a minor aside, that I ran it past a Pentecostal friend of mine, and she thought the Father-Mind comparison was a bit weak, and indeed seemed upset by it ... on the other hand, she didn't actually dispute it. (And with no disrespect to either your friend or Rabbi Gellman, Jesus said there's a difference in who gets blasphemed. Going back to the human analogy, just because my flesh gets hurt doesn't mean my spirit gets hurt.) Quote: Now, as far as "Pointless Witnessing", in my personal opinion from what I have read frrom my "CONCORDANCE" in the back of my King James Holy Bible on the entire subject at hand. Per Jesus, Himself; there is no such thing as "Pointless Witnessing" because we as Christian's are too take the Word of God and to carry it throughout the world to all who can hear it or read it and to plant the seeds of Jesus' life, death, resurrection, ascention, redeemption, salvation, and gift of eternal life in heaven with Him when we die. Now if those seeds fall on fertile ground and take hold, then we have done our job per the apostile Paul (" I planted, Apollos watered, but God recieved the increase.") and if those seeds fall on hard ground and never take hold or root, then we are to kick the dust from under our feet and move on to others with the gospel. Now that's the first thing I've seen yet that resembled a good argument! Kudos to you. Mind you, it doesn't answer my point about "Jesus said it's unforgivable" or the example of the Southern Baptist deacon, but we can take the allegory. Quote: That is where I find you flawed sir. For so despertly wanting to quit before you even start to try and plant the seed of Jesus' gift of salvation. Aaannd, you just lost one kudo. Only one, though; you can keep the rest. I believe I mentioned that I still witness to these people (my last paragraph before the personal aside). I think that makes it clear that I don't quit before I "start to try".
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 6:36 pm
I do not pretend to know all the answers so I did ask of someone your question Mr. Bait's.
The simplest answer and to tell ya where your 'flawed' at; is too simply say that if some one was not a Christian (and by that term I mean some one who is saved by Jesus Christ as their personal Lord, Savior, Master, Redeemer of their soul, mind, body, tongue, brain and life), and they say: I do this in God's name, or in the name of Jesus; knowingly or unknowly that they are not saved by the blood of the Lamb of God;
Then they have "Blasphemed" against the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost.
That was the point that Jesus was making in the Bible when He said that to His desciples.
Now if that un~saved person does get saved then all their sins, even their sins of 'Blaspheme" are totally forgiven by the price that Jesus paid on the cross at Calvery for all of our sins and their sins are now washed away and forgiven.
Henceforth, they will be saved and redeemed, reconciled, sanctified, and set aside so that they too will be joint heirs in heaven.
Thank you's to the father of a close friend, who's a minister and does know what he is talking about, and who shared this knowledge with me when I e~mailed him with a copy of your question.
He also stated that atm with you comparing God, who is the Father, and the Son - Jesus, and also the Holy Ghost; who are all one in the same and that is God The Almighty, that you Mr. Bait's are just comparing apples to oranges atm and that all this just seems a tad bit triffle at best to see yourself agrue with others over your own misunderstanding of the trinity.
In which case, I agree with Coop, and Jack for you to go to The Well Guild, and read Rabbi Gellman's God Squad on the Trinity, it may help ya better understand your own question.
Just saying as one sister to one brother in the family of God.
Christian Huggles,
~Lyn~
heart
From what he gave you; You did do a really good job interpretating it from him.
Take good care my good friend, and may God bless you in all that you do and say for His name sake.,
Aaron
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Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 4:33 pm
Woodlyn Fairee I do not pretend to know all the answers so I did ask of someone your question Mr. Bait's. *Shrug.* Um, okay. I wouldn't have thought my little discussion-topic to be important enough to warrant spreading outside the Guild, but if you think it is, then go for it. Quote: The simplest answer and to tell ya where your 'flawed' at; is too simply say that if some one was not a Christian (and by that term I mean some one who is saved by Jesus Christ as their personal Lord, Savior, Master, Redeemer of their soul, mind, body, tongue, brain and life), and they say: I do this in God's name, or in the name of Jesus; knowingly or unknowly that they are not saved by the blood of the Lamb of God; Then they have "Blasphemed" against the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost. Like the sons of Sceva, you mean? For those who don't know the story, it's in Acts 19:11-20. After Paul started to become famous, a bunch of Jews tried casting out demons in the name of Jesus. Unfortunately, they weren't followers of Jesus; they were just using His name. Seven brothers, sons of a high priest, tried casting out a demon "in the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches". Well, one particular demoniac didn't take kindly to it. "Jesus I know, and Paul I know about ... but who are you?" He beat them, ripped their clothes off, and kicked them naked into the street. After that little incident became known, people started to realize that the name of Jesus was nothing to play around with, and people started taking things a bit more seriously. Luke records that "the name of the Lord Jesus was held in high honor" -- which is what His name deserves. Okay, I can see where that would be considered a form of blasphemy. I won't argue with that one in the least. I'm not convinced it's technically blasphemy against the Spirit, but I'll go with it as blasphemy. Quote: That was the point that Jesus was making in the Bible when He said that to His desciples. Um ... okay, this one, I gotta argue with. Only in this one part: In Mark 3, when Jesus says this, it's because the "teachers of the law" had just been saying that He had an unclean spirit. In fact, Mark mentions that twice. (My earlier reference was a little too restrictive, and that's my fault. Try verses 22-30 instead of just 28-30.) And when He says it in Matthew, it looks like a slightly abbreviated version of the same incident (the Pharisees had just accused him of driving out demons "by the ruler of the demons"). Now, in Luke ... it seems to come out of nowhere, and not be immediately related to anything before or after. So there, I could believe it's as you -- rather, your source -- says. (Hmm. I hadn't really thought about this before, but ... Mark is the shortest gospel, and yet the writer took pains to give some backstory and context -- even pointing it out before and after the fact. That's interesting, that is.) Quote: Thank you's to the father of a close friend, who's a minister and does know what he is talking about, and who shared this knowledge with me when I e~mailed him with a copy of your question. You got an actual minister involved in this? Egads, girl, it definitely wasn't that important ... but if it's stirring up that much discussion and thought, I'm certainly not complaining! Quote: He also stated that atm with you comparing God, who is the Father, and the Son - Jesus, and also the Holy Ghost; who are all one in the same and that is God The Almighty, that you Mr. Bait's are just comparing apples to oranges atm and that all this just seems a tad bit triffle at best to see yourself agrue with others over your own misunderstanding of the trinity. That ... wasn't me. I mean, yes, I did agree to the analogy between the Trinity's "members" and the parts of a human, but that was after Mr. Cooper brought them up. And it didn't seem to factor in later. Quote: In which case, I agree with Coop, and Jack for you to go to The Well Guild, and read Rabbi Gellman's God Squad on the Trinity, it may help ya better understand your own question. I did. Repeatedly. I saw nothing that disputed my theory. Actually, I think I could expand on what he said a bit, because most of what he said is "I'm Jewish, so this is outside my field, but it isn't a belief in three gods" -- and I'm certainly not arguing with that. And I've a rather lengthy argument from cult expert Dr. Walter Martin that goes into great detail on the Trinity, the various verses and arguments supporting it, the various groups who don't believe it or misinterpret it, and so forth -- but the argument is on a very old audiocassette, so I need to fix a tape player first. sweatdrop
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Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 5:35 am
Personally, I would leave it up to Christ to decide who committed blasphemy or not.
"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known...."
The fact is we will never have all the answers or know all the facts. What we have is enough and as our faith grows so does our knowledge. God guides us and directs us. He opens our eyes as we grow.
Don't ever give up on anyone.
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Created In His Image Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 3:12 pm
iamlost4ever Personally, I would leave it up to Christ to decide who committed blasphemy or not. "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known...." The fact is we will never have all the answers or know all the facts. What we have is enough and as our faith grows so does our knowledge. God guides us and directs us. He opens our eyes as we grow. Don't ever give up on anyone. Hello Ms. Michigan! I know that your quoting the apostle Paul, but for the life of me, I can't recall what book of Scripture that is from. Can you help me with more info please? Jack
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Posted: Wed May 07, 2014 4:29 pm
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