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 Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:54 am
Alright people. You all think a pokemon's nature is important right? I think that's foolish. It isn't the nature that matters, not one bit. For instance I have a lvl 100 Luxray that I've had since Diamond Version. Raised it from lvl 3 and named it Sparky. Now, somehow without cheats I managed to bypass a few gyms in that game to get to the water one. Took that entire gym down with a single Pokemon, Sparky. Now it might have been higher lvl than the pokemon of the grunts but not the leader. Still it was just me and that one pokemon. It was lvl 79 when we beat the game. As for its nature it is bold. It even took first in the tough contests with just 3 moves. I raised it and trained it since I caught it when I first started out. It has been on every version since then. My point is a Pokemon can be strong despite its nature. Just train it. Even though it just a game I do care for the Pokemon I train, no matter what.
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Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:17 am
That's because in single player.
You as the Player are suppose to win every time regardless of what your Pokemon nature(s) are, or what its ability(s) is.
People want beneficial nature because of online battles.
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Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:23 am
Later Dink That's because in single player. You as the Player are suppose to win every time regardless of what your Pokemon nature(s) are, or what its ability(s) is. People want beneficial nature because of online battles. And yet I still win those with pokemon that don't have good natures. Proves them wrong.
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Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:41 am
Kalika Kingslayer Later Dink That's because in single player. You as the Player are suppose to win every time regardless of what your Pokemon nature(s) are, or what its ability(s) is. People want beneficial nature because of online battles. And yet I still win those with pokemon that don't have good natures. Proves them wrong.
I'm not saying natures have anything to do with winning.
I've done the same thing you've done but with a Lucario with Bold Nature
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Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:51 am
Later Dink Kalika Kingslayer Later Dink That's because in single player. You as the Player are suppose to win every time regardless of what your Pokemon nature(s) are, or what its ability(s) is. People want beneficial nature because of online battles. And yet I still win those with pokemon that don't have good natures. Proves them wrong. I'm not saying natures have anything to do with winning. I've done the same thing you've done but with a Lucario with Bold Nature Took me forever to get Sparky and my Infernape, Cinder, to that point. See, my infernape was female. A female starter. Took out the ice type gym with it.
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Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:06 pm
So your reason for "Nature vs Nurture" is because you managed to beat the in-game gyms using type advantage (Electric vs Water, Fire vs Ice) and a few scrubs online who probably have worst Pokemon than yours? Don't get me wrong, my in-game teams are "strong" as well for what they are.. but they are vastly inferior to those that are specially bred and trained for the competitive metagame.
Long story short, the Pokemon METAGAME is a numbers game. Plain and simple. You can train your Pokemon all you want, but they'll never go past their 510 EV point investment limit just like any other Pokemon. A beneficial nature + 31 IV + 252 EVs will help a Pokemon obtain at most two max stats (be it in Attack, Special Attack, Defense, Special Defense or Speed), and based on your chosen Pokemon, those extra points in Speed will make you attack before your opponent, those extra points in Attack or Special Attack will make you hit your opponent harder, and especially those extra points in Defense and Special Defense on your Pokemon will increase it's survivability beyond the limits any in-game Pokemon could ever dream to accomplish. And this is the mere tip of the iceberg on statistical analytics in regards to the metagame. I've already pointed this out using your own Giratina's HP as an example.
I'm glad you are proud of your Pokemon, I'm sure they took time and dedication to reach the 70+ levels but pardon my rudeness when I say this, but your ignorance on this topic is beginning to show.
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Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:10 pm
+1 Pokemon that are used in the game against NPCs can be whatever you want to use; max IV's verses minimum only make a difference of 31 points maximum, and nature will affect that more or less the same way, depending on how high the base stat is. The NPC's all use roughly average pokemon, do not use any sort of strategy, and often use very sub-par moves. In competitive battling, nature matters a lot; it can mean the difference between your max IV, max EV speed pokemon from winning in a mirror match. A defensive nature may allow you to tank one more hit before going down, which may make the difference between winning and losing an entire match. The little secret is that it takes Nature and Nurture to play in the competitive field. The right nature + right EV spread can make the same pokemon play vastly different. A speed boosting nature can help you beat normally faster pokemon that went for an attack boosting nature, and that alone can snag you a win. Saying that it's "foolish" to care that your pokemon performs in the way you want it to is... well, rather foolish. Like Kyrenx said, it's a numbers game, and an extra 10% more attack can make the difference between a 3 hit KO or a 2 hit KO.
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Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:17 pm
Hunter and Kyrenex are absolutly right... And I am a goddamn scrub and I know this. I would add on top of that movesets are also a factor in online battling, whereas ingame often it is a matter of "does this hit hard enough to tank the opposition" and "will I have enough PP to get through the longest cave"
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Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:25 pm
Far from it. I've beaten online players with pokemon that I've spent time training. It's dumb not to raise a pokemon well just because of it's nature does not seem strong. Even the weakest of pokemon can be strong people.
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Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:56 pm
Kalika Kingslayer I've beaten online players with pokemon that I've spent time training. Kalika Kingslayer It's dumb not to raise a pokemon well just because of it's nature does not seem strong.
We're not talking about what "seems" strong, but more along the lines of what has the potential to be stronger than "strong". As Dink has already pointed out, no one is arguing that natures equal victories. However, just like the EV training and the Pokemon's base IVs, a Pokemon's nature does play a factor in getting the most of your Pokemon. Listen to reason or don't, it's your team. If you want your team to be mediocre at best, that's solely your choice.
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Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:01 pm
Kyrenx Kalika Kingslayer I've beaten online players with pokemon that I've spent time training. Kalika Kingslayer It's dumb not to raise a pokemon well just because of it's nature does not seem strong.
We're not talking about what "seems" strong, but more along the lines of what has the potential to be stronger than "strong". As Dink has already pointed out, no one is arguing that natures equal victories. However, just like the EV training and the Pokemon's base IVs, a Pokemon's nature does play a factor in getting the most of your Pokemon. Listen to reason or don't, it's your team. If you want your team to be mediocre at best, that's solely your choice. I am saying that it is wrong to ignore a pokemon just because it's nature is weak. I am a good trainer, I can win battles as long as people don't cheat. That's why I nvr played online until this gen.
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Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:43 pm
Kalika Kingslayer I am saying that it is wrong to ignore a pokemon just because it's nature is weak. I am a good trainer, I can win battles as long as people don't cheat. That's why I nvr played online until this gen. Ah, we seem to be getting to the crux of the matter here. Tactically speaking, it would actually be wrong to ignore nature, but it seems to me that you're saying it's the wrong thing to do ethically, and you shouldn't say that something is "wrong" without giving some sort of justification as to why you think that way. These aren't puppies at a pound, and battling competitively with sub-par pokemon because you share a bond with them will negatively impact your chances of winning. I'm not saying that I don't have a ton of subpar pokemon that I've raised in the various games dating back to Leaf Green sitting in the boxes of my Pokemon Y, because I do; even though it's irrational to "bond" with little packets of data that resemble fantastical creatures when represented on a screen, I do feel some measure of affection for them and the memories attached to them, but strictly speaking if you want to do well in ranked matches against other people that play at a competitive level then you're going to have to pay attention to things like Nature. Since the Everstone makes sure that the nature you want will be passed down to a pokemon's offspring, I don't release pokemon for not having the right nature like I had to in previous generations, and in fact I really don't see why this conversation is even happening. You don't care about natures; great, big whoop, have fun playing however you want to play. Why do you care that other people care? (Let me remind you that you started this thread, and therefor looked to pick this fight)
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Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:49 pm
Hunter of the dusk Kalika Kingslayer I am saying that it is wrong to ignore a pokemon just because it's nature is weak. I am a good trainer, I can win battles as long as people don't cheat. That's why I nvr played online until this gen. Ah, we seem to be getting to the crux of the matter here. Tactically speaking, it would actually be wrong to ignore nature, but it seems to me that you're saying it's the wrong thing to do ethically, and you shouldn't say that something is "wrong" without giving some sort of justification as to why you think that way. These aren't puppies at a pound, and battling competitively with sub-par pokemon because you share a bond with them will negatively impact your chances of winning. I'm not saying that I don't have a ton of subpar pokemon that I've raised in the various games dating back to Leaf Green sitting in the boxes of my Pokemon Y, because I do; even though it's irrational to "bond" with little packets of data that resemble fantastical creatures when represented on a screen, I do feel some measure of affection for them and the memories attached to them, but strictly speaking if you want to do well in ranked matches against other people that play at a competitive level then you're going to have to pay attention to things like Nature. Since the Everstone makes sure that the nature you want will be passed down to a pokemon's offspring, I don't release pokemon for not having the right nature like I had to in previous generations, and in fact I really don't see why this conversation is even happening. You don't care about natures; great, big whoop, have fun playing however you want to play. Why do you care that other people care? (Let me remind you that you started this thread, and therefor looked to pick this fight) My purpose was nvr a fight. Many of these pokemon I've had since Sapphire version, especially my first ever shiny that I named Clemson because it was orange. My purpose was to state my opinion, not pick a fight. Does winning online battles honestly matter all so much? That was nvr the focus of the series.
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Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:03 pm
Kalika Kingslayer My purpose was nvr a fight. Many of these pokemon I've had since Sapphire version, especially my first ever shiny that I named Clemson because it was orange. My purpose was to state my opinion, not pick a fight. Does winning online battles honestly matter all so much? That was nvr the focus of the series. Well, I can see how you weren't trying to fight, as I often call people foolish when I'm trying to make new friends[/sarcasm] Winning battles has always been the focus of the series, which is why battling features so heavily. Nintendo has hosted tournaments and events for battling since the original Red/Green/Blue versions, and battling other players is the main thing that keeps me playing. Going through the story (with a fair amount of wasting time) only got me about 20 hours of gameplay, with the other 280+ hours being focused on breeding pokemon and battling other people.
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Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:27 pm
Hunter of the dusk Kalika Kingslayer My purpose was nvr a fight. Many of these pokemon I've had since Sapphire version, especially my first ever shiny that I named Clemson because it was orange. My purpose was to state my opinion, not pick a fight. Does winning online battles honestly matter all so much? That was nvr the focus of the series. Well, I can see how you weren't trying to fight, as I often call people foolish when I'm trying to make new friends[/sarcasm] Winning battles has always been the focus of the series, which is why battling features so heavily. Nintendo has hosted tournaments and events for battling since the original Red/Green/Blue versions, and battling other players is the main thing that keeps me playing. Going through the story (with a fair amount of wasting time) only got me about 20 hours of gameplay, with the other 280+ hours being focused on breeding pokemon and battling other people. Usually I just get challenged to random lvl 50 battles. I hate those. I like all out cause then I dominate.
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