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Divine_Malevolence

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:58 pm


Classes divided in five, elemental style.

Fire:
Specializes in area of effect attacks. Moderate cost, moderate damage, low health, shines in being able to strike multiple foes more efficiently than any other. Weak against single targets. Stronger against water types who are bound to be close to their allies while possessing little defense.
Negative effects generally revolve around causing persistent irritating effects like being on fire and creating entities that units don't enjoy being around. Supports by adding additional effects to the attacks of allies.

A unit who simply aims to hit as many things as possible.

Lightning:
Specializes in powerful single strikes. Ridiculous cost, high damage, average health, shines in being able to take out single foes with excessive speed. Weak against enduring targets. Stronger against fire types who lack sufficient durability.
Negative effects generally revolve around weakening the target's offensive capabilities and creating single use traps. Supports by reinvigorating allies' energy reserves.

A unit who aims to hit and run.

Wind:
Specializes in sustainable strikes. Neigh irrelevant cost, below average damage, high health, shines when dealing with drawn out engagements. Weak against enemies who grow more powerful with time. Stronger against lightning types who find themselves incapable of performing in a drawn out fight.
Negative effects generally revolve around reducing the effectiveness of an enemy's attempt to regenerate and general displacement. Supports by increasing allies' mobility.

A unit who lasts through fights

Earth:
Specializes in persistence. Low cost, rising damage, above average health shines in taking down enduring targets by dealing more damage with each consecutive strike. Weak against groups. Stronger against wind types who rely on their ability to consistently weather attacks.
Negative effects generally revolve around impeding movement and modifying the terrain. Supports by bolstering allies' defenses.

A unit who works better against singular large targets.

Water:
Specializes in working in a group. Moderate cost, low damage normally, high damage when flanking or striking an unaware target, below average health, shines when in the presence of allies. Weak against area of effect damage. Stronger against earth types who rely on their ability to focus on a single target.
Negative effects generally rely on removing positive effects. Supports by healing and removing negative effects.

A unit that helps it's allies and relies on their presence for increased capabilities.

Fire types rely on curved swords, poleaxes, and rifles. A less combat oriented fire type will have a larger, more hollow weapons which would generally contain oil.

Lightning types rely on thrusting swords, spears, and javelins. A less combat oriented lightning type will utilize thinner, more wirey weapons with additional conductive portrusions.

Wind types rely on short swords, glaives, and chakram. A less combat oriented wind type will have smaller weapons that heavily utilize cloth.

Earth types rely on maces, war hammers, and large slings. A more combat oriented earth type will utilize slightly smaller weapons covered in spikes, while a less combat oriented one would simply use a flat weapon.

Water types rely on daggers, bladed whips, and throwing knives. A less combat oriented water type would use thinner, more needle like weapons
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:45 am


Sooo...
Fire < Lightning < Wind < Earth < Water < Fire...

As opposed a more traditional:
Fire < Water < Earth < Lightning < Wind < Fire...

Where: Weak < Strong

If you plan on using this setup in some sort of game or story plot, a number of people may feel rather confused early on. User Image

To support my view regarding the traditional party roles:
The area effects of fire is wide, but not necessary powerful. Water would usually try to focus on mending themselves and/or their allies to outlast the fire's stamina.
But water got even lower offensive capabilities. Earth's defences should be able to withstand most of what attacks water got.
With the high defensive capabilities of earth, they also really slow. The powerful and directed attacks of lightning should be able to breach trough earth's defences.
The powerful attacks of lightning is also rather slow or otherwise time consuming to prepare. The wind can be both agile and deceiving 'nough to avoid those slow attacks.
Even if wind is agile and deceptive, dodging the area effects of fire should prove to be difficult.

Gakre

Tipsy Exhibitionist


Divine_Malevolence

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:16 pm


Gakre
Sooo...
Fire < Lightning < Wind < Earth < Water < Fire...

As opposed a more traditional:
Fire < Water < Earth < Lightning < Wind < Fire...

Where: Weak < Strong

If you plan on using this setup in some sort of game or story plot, a number of people may feel rather confused early on. User Image

To support my view regarding the traditional party roles:
The area effects of fire is wide, but not necessary powerful. Water would usually try to focus on mending themselves and/or their allies to outlast the fire's stamina.
But water got even lower offensive capabilities. Earth's defences should be able to withstand most of what attacks water got.
With the high defensive capabilities of earth, they also really slow. The powerful and directed attacks of lightning should be able to breach trough earth's defences.
The powerful attacks of lightning is also rather slow or otherwise time consuming to prepare. The wind can be both agile and deceiving 'nough to avoid those slow attacks.
Even if wind is agile and deceptive, dodging the area effects of fire should prove to be difficult.
Yeah, I definitely found the entire wheel of resistances to be off, and I'm not exactly happy with wind being the fscking tank, 'cause that makes very little sense to me.

Would presently rather shift healing to earth and just make them the durable class who can support allies by healing and boosting defensive capabilities, have water be the persistent class which has weak offensive capabilities but counters that by utilizing its corrosive nature to weather down defenses, and have wind be the class that flanks and generally works in a team well.
Which would turn it into Fire>Wind>Water>Earth>Lightning>Fire.
Which makes ever so slightly more sense.

The area of effect with fire would be wide and difficult to outmaneuver, which would be more potent against a faster class that enjoys being around other units. It would be neutral towards earth due to earth's inability to successfully draw fire's attacks fully onto it while fire really can't damage earth, but doesn't need to. Neutral toward water in that water will generally be more of a solo unit who boasts above average durability but would only move against higher durability targets, and would thus probably avoid the fray until such a time when the fire was already taken care of. Weak to lightning as lightning wouldn't remain in a group for long due to a propensity for attacking and retreating shortly thereafter, utilizing heavy quick damage that's better against the class with the least defense.
They're also very good at taking each other out.

Wind's potency would be a combination of the ability to flee and flank, which would be far more effective against water which needs to continuously hit a target to be fully effective. Neutral to earth, due to an inherent ability to avoid getting locked down but no real ability to attack an earth type with any great effect. Neutral to lightning due to a propensity for grouping together with allies and thus being a lesser variable within a single group, but still being a unit who can be outright obliterated with a single hit.
Would generally avoid enemies of the same nature.

Water's potency would be the ability to weather through an engagement, far more effective against the earth which lacks the power to kill them while relying on maintaining a growing pressure on the slower enemy units. Neutral to lightning due to a higher durability that wouldn't likely fall from singular attacks, but a complete lack of ability to hold down the fleeing enemy.

Earth's goal would be to draw in opposition and keep them there, antlion style. Water types wouldn't mind being held within the range of a single target for an extended period of time, 'cause that's exactly where they would want to be. But lightning types would find the complete and utter inability to deal damage to these guys alongside the fact that they regenerate and, in fact, prevent them from running the ******** away to be extremely problematic.


And on that note, statistical debuffing would fit water more than lightning. Water would be capable of lowering an enemy's attack potency, lightning wouldn't. Lightning's method of controlling enemies would be draining energy, a method that wouldn't be all to effective against lower cost wind/earth/water types, but would destroy fire and lightning types who rely specifically on utilizing mid to high power offenses that carry moderate to high costs. Among the two, more effective against fire types who lack the capability to replenish energy on their own.

I find water being weak against earth to be as distasteful as water being weak to fire.



And I've been playing a tactics game of late, but it lacks unit differentiation and all forms of specialization, whereupon all the units are basically the same thing, which is somewhat irritating.
I'm trying to think of how to do that better. Basically in a way that would also fit a theme.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:06 am


Divine_Malevolence
I'm not exactly happy with wind being the fscking tank, 'cause that makes very little sense to me.
They're not exactly tank in the sense of being able to take enemy attacks, then boast/laugh into their attacker's face(s) from how much it tickles. I was thinking more in the direction of an agile/utility class who can easily outmanoeuvre slow attacks, and potentially intercept the concentration of casting.

Divine_Malevolence
I find water being weak against earth to be as distasteful as water being weak to fire.
I guess it's more from the observation of the following: When you toss a bucket of water onto a campfire, the fire is put out or at least noticeably weakened. When you toss a bucket of water onto the ground, the ground just absorb the water; and the amount of water needed to properly turn the ground to mud is a fair amount..

Divine_Malevolence
And I've been playing a tactics game of late...
Hmm... I guess making units who can move out of the way of attacks may be difficult in a fully turn based tactics game. I was thinking more on movement speed in a similar sense as in League of Legends, to move out of the way of attacks similar to Lux' Final Spark. User Image

Gakre

Tipsy Exhibitionist


Divine_Malevolence

Blessed Tactician

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:51 am


Gakre
Divine_Malevolence
I'm not exactly happy with wind being the fscking tank, 'cause that makes very little sense to me.
They're not exactly tank in the sense of being able to take enemy attacks, then boast/laugh into their attacker's face(s) from how much it tickles. I was thinking more in the direction of an agile/utility class who can easily outmanoeuvre slow attacks, and potentially intercept the concentration of casting.

Divine_Malevolence
I find water being weak against earth to be as distasteful as water being weak to fire.
I guess it's more from the observation of the following: When you toss a bucket of water onto a campfire, the fire is put out or at least noticeably weakened. When you toss a bucket of water onto the ground, the ground just absorb the water; and the amount of water needed to properly turn the ground to mud is a fair amount..

Divine_Malevolence
And I've been playing a tactics game of late...
Hmm... I guess making units who can move out of the way of attacks may be difficult in a fully turn based tactics game. I was thinking more on movement speed in a similar sense as in League of Legends, to move out of the way of attacks similar to Lux' Final Spark. User Image
Oh, no, my wind ones were originally the tanks.
Which makes no sense.

The relationship between fire and water is more complex than just that. Sure, you can toss water on a fire and it can put out the fire, but you can put a fire below water and it'll evaporate the water.
But when it comes down to it, the only thing that really sculpts landscapes are the flow of rivers, the coming of tides, geologic activity, and goram meteors. Watah shapes da earth, while wind basically does jack s**t, fire even less, and lightning even less.


And I've been thinking of a halfway between real time and turn based. Where either A:
You're playing single player, and you give every individual unit a task. It then has everything go at the same time until either a unit completes its task and requires a new one, or you notice something's amiss and pause to change the orders.
Or B:
You're playing multiplayer, you similarly give every individual unit a task, but it moves for a set period of time after hitting accept and you can't steer your units away from danger that just popped up.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:16 am


Divine_Malevolence
The relationship between fire and water is more complex than just that. Sure, you can toss water on a fire and it can put out the fire, but you can put a fire below water and it'll evaporate the water.
In the case of evaporating water: The fire would depend on a third party to keep the water from making the flammable source less flammable. User Image

Divine_Malevolence
But when it comes down to it, the only thing that really sculpts landscapes are the flow of rivers, the coming of tides, geologic activity, and goram meteors. Watah shapes da earth, while wind basically does jack s**t, fire even less, and lightning even less.
Lightning can smelt sand, leaving a glass-like object in the sand with a lightning-shape (unless the sand is low on silica, then you may just get a lump of something similar to concrete). I believe to remember something 'bout lightning splitting up Nitrogen molecules for some reason as well...
Fire kinda uses up the Oxygen in the air, making it difficult to breathe.
Wind may shape the landscape in a similar manner as water, but takes far longer to show anything noticeable (if you're not in a desert). More importantly: The wind can carry 'round the water in the atmosphere.

Gakre

Tipsy Exhibitionist


Divine_Malevolence

Blessed Tactician

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:03 pm


Compliments and Sub-elements.

A compliment would be a lesser version of a different element serving to modify the primary element.

Fire-Lightning:
A fire lightning would benefit from the ability to recharge itself and be very independent when not injured. It would specialize in massive damage area of effect castings. It wouldn't be able to attack as often as a pure fire, and its damage would fall short of a pure lightning.

Fire-Water:
The combination would allow for wide area debuffing and cleansing, generally taking up a role as a support unit while others dealt damage. Its clear lack of damage focus would make it a sub-par offensive unit, and every individual debuff would be weaker than a pure water counterpart.

Fire-Earth:
The combination would allow for wide area terrain modification and movement impedement, while being a competent multi-target healer. Useful for holding back large amounts of enemies and fighting alongside multiple allies against fire using enemies, but suffers from lack of offensive prowess and ability to heal/immobilize single enemies.

Fire-Wind:
The combination would allow greater group movement alongside the ability to displace multiple enemies at the same time for a superb supporting unit. Best suited for assisting large numbers in transit and good at protecting allies from large groups of enemies, but suffers from a lack of offensive prowess and ability to remove singular enemies completely.

Lightning-Water:
A combination that seldom agrees with itself, the only real use would be for quick, massive debuffs on a single enemy. Would allow for the quick destruction of enemy earth types or the destruction of a singular enemy's attacking power, but would fail spectacularly on the offense due to contradictory typing.

Lightning-Earth:
A combination mostly useful for in-battle regeneration, capable of revitalizing both an ally's health and energy. In addition, it would possess the ability to dish out the most powerful bursts of healing in times of desperation, but would then need to recharge.

Lightning-Wind:
A combination boasting the most frightening damage and mobility possible. When attacking a target from behind and expending all of its energy, there is no source of damage higher even from a pure lightning, and when expending its energy in a rapid movement technique the amount of ground it can cover immediately is immense. Like any lightning type, however, this has a habit of leaving them exhausted and defenseless until they can recharge.

Water-Earth:
A unit specializing in longevity, it would boast the ability to hastily bring a near death ally to full health, but not in the thick of battle. In battle, it would use the combination of its ability to reduce an enemy's offensive prowess and its own healing to weather through an assault, though its lessened water capabilities would leave it vulnerable to a more pure water type's offense.

Water-Wind:
A stealthy debuffing unit, specializing in skirmishes and repeat attacks against a single target. Best at striking, fleeing, and repeating until an enemy falls. Its high mobility would make it difficult to catch, and its ability to debuff while striking at enemy vitals would allow it to very handily bring down targets over an extended fight. Though it's a unique case where it would find itself to be extremely weak against a lightning type, despite neither of the two halves have that weakness.

Earth-Wind:
The movement master. Capable of knocking enemies back, in, up, and around and holding them where they so please. Known for being exceptionally difficult to escape from at all times, despite being slower than a wind type and less durable than an earth.




Sub-elements.
Light:
The ability to create and control illusionary doubles. Fire types would be able to create multiple, though each would be easily apparent from long distances. Lightning types would be able to create perfect doubles which were indistinguishable from the original, but would only last for a short while. Water types would be able to craft doubles, but would need to mold them for extended periods of time to fool anyone. Wind types would be able to create doubles that would fool anyone who wasn't also looking at the creator of the double. And earth types would be able to create doubles that would be absolutely flawless, but entirely incapable of movement.

Darkness:
The ability to shroud a foe or area in darkness, reducing their scanning distance.
Fire would be able to inflict this upon multiple targets, though the vision reducing effect would be minimal on each individual. Lightning would be able to outright blind an enemy, but only for a short while. Water would slowly and surely reduce the enemy's vision to nothing. Wind would be able to effectively blind most enemies assuming they didn't see it coming. And earth types can cast a powerful spell of darkness, but it falls apart when the target moves.
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