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 Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 4:31 am
I've been learning a lot from my mother who has taught me so many things. Things that sadly most churches don't touch on. And recently, God's been speaking to me a lot about tithing and finances. For months now I've been having dreams about randomly stumbling upon wide ranges of money. From $60 to $1.25 million. Not sure if the amounts are literal or not but that's to be found out later. Point is, God has been revealing to me that my finances are going to be improving greatly. But this doesn't come without effort on my behalf. I'd like to share what I've learned about the 4 ways of giving and why so many Christians don't understand why tithing often doesn't seem to work.
My husband and I have been led to start tithing. And upon our first tithe (which was very recent) we faced retaliation from the enemy. On the same day of our first tithe my car window stopped working. No big deal right? They'll just jiggle some doohickey back in place for a few bucks and we'll go have lunch. Wrong. The motor controlling the window was broken and replacement cost us $281. That was most of our money. But we had all the proof we needed to know we were threatening the enemy's grip on our income. I'm bad with pulling verses out of my head but I know it's in there somewhere that says when you try to put God in charge of something for the first time the enemy will throw something in your face to try and distract you from continuing it.
Then I learned there are 4 different methods that it's important for tithing Christians to know. If you don't know what I'm talking about you should check this out. I learned this from a sermon by Jessy Duplantis called Why Isn't My Giving Working?
The Tithe Offering
I won't make this long since most of us are aware of tithing.
Tithing is 10% of your income. It's usually given to your church or a source you get fed spiritually from. God commands that 10% of your income belongs to Him and that obedient giving will be rewarded with an increase in your income.
The First Fruits Offering
Upon correct tithing offerings there is to be expected some kind of increase in your income. For example if you receive a bonus, or your check becomes bigger, that whole amount extra is given to the Lord with your tithe. And you only have to do it once. Once you've given your first fruit offering you return to your weekly 10% from that point on. You can expect a great multiplication of this offering back.
The Alms Offering
The alms offering is the only one not given to God. Alms is given as a charity when you feel sympathetic for someone who needs it. But because it's not given to God, you only receive back exactly what you gave. You shouldn't expect your income to change. And an alms offering should be given privately to protect the dignity of the receiver. There's no money returned if you brag about it. But what many Christians don't know is that a tithe can't be given as an alms. The rules don't apply as a tithe. And you can try to give your tithe as a tithe but if your church is accepting tithes but boldly advertising the charities they donate to your tithe becomes an alms and your offering is returned matched to the amount you gave.
The Seed Offering
I kinda forgot most of the details about it. But I will tell you a seed offering is a tithe that begins at 11%. Whatever you feel led to give to the Lord you add it to your regular tithe. You give it with the motivation of faith and reward and expect some great changes in your finances.
That's a basic summary of what we're learning and are excited to see how the Lord is going to change our life. I'd like to hear some of your thoughts and experiences on giving.
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 9:35 am
My family, especially my mother, was/is all into tithing, both to her/our parish, and to a set of charities that I guess her and my father sat down at some point and "approved," and she's kept up with it all after his death. And my family is pretty wealthy, so I will be wholly unsurprised if there's a wing or a library named after us at our parish at some point in the future.
I, myself, am pretty much the opposite of wealthy, and I also do not really have a set place that I would tithe to anyway, but I do very much agree with the spirit of giving and lack of tight-fistedness with one's money that the idea of tithing encourages.
I do volunteer my time, every day of the week, at two organisations that I very much support and that help a group of people I very much believe deserve the services they offer.
And there is a nearby parish, whose priest I'm friendly with, and I frequently fill in for their organist (free of charge...which to someone like me who makes their living off getting paid to play music, sort of is bordering on a financial donation; I'm donating both my time and my talent as well as, in a slightly less material sense, the money I normally would charge for that time). I also help out a lot with their various fundraisers and events.
I guess I generally prefer to volunteer my time rather than my money, because, frankly, I feel like the time I have to volunteer helps a lot more than what little money I would be able to give. I do donate money to the afore-mentioned parish as well as MY set of "approved" charities/organisations, but I don't do it on weekly basis. If I've had an especially good month, I will often donate nearly all of what I don't need for basic expenses. Sometimes there isn't any income that isn't put directly back into keeping myself alive. On those months, I don't donate any money, though I will still gladly volunteer my time.
I don't do any of this to get anything in return, at least not directly. If I went my whole life receiving nothing in return beyond the satisfaction that I was helping people, that would be enough. But, of course, good deeds tend to come back to you in all different sorts of ways. For example, because I often play at a parish for free, both the priest with whom I work directly, as well as members of the congregation, will be much more likely to throw out my name if and when they encounter anyone who needs an organist (or a pianist, or a violinist). I've gotten actually a great deal of paid work just from recommendations from that single parish.
I'm not sure I really buy into there being such a specific formula for if you tithe X, you will receive Y, but if you do and it helps you to manage your tithing, I see absolutely nothing wrong with following such a formula.
I think what's most important is that, as Christians, we are willing to give whatever resources we have to help both our churches as well as our fellow man, and I think that God tends to see to it that if you're willing to give good things, you'll generally get good things in return.
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 10:18 am
I was unaware that you magically got stuff back when you tithed. I thought that sort of sacrificial exchange with deities was limited to us Pagans razz Tithing isn't giving to god, it's giving to the church. Your god doesn't need your money and doesn't need sacrifice for its own sake - or at least, that was my assumption. You pay tithes so that the parish church can get a new roof and the vicar can eat - tithings are his "wages", your payment for his services, and upkeep of the church buildings. You give so it can be redistributed as donations to charities or to pay for church events. That's why you don't trust those evangelicals on TV. They generally have suspicious amounts of money themselves and keep asking for more. They don't need your monetary support as a parish priest would, and frankly I should like to see receipts if they're claiming to give all of it to charity. There's one here who has a huge boat and his wife is covered in diamonds and they still have their hands out. They're greedy as all get-out and not at all holy. "Send us your money and good things will happen to you, and if good things aren't happening it's because you're not sending enough".... suspicious, I tell you. What are they doing with this money they are saying is going "to god"? If it can't be redirected to charities because that would count as "alms tithing", and it's not going towards buying the church a new roof, where does it end up? The pockets of the person who keeps asking for it? Jesus didn't talk about tithing. In fact there are verses you could interpret as being against it. But he did talk about selling all your possessions and giving the money to the poor. For that reason I would suggest it is unlikely that giving away your money would get you more money. You get your reward in heaven, not now. Don't do it because some guy told you it would get you more money. If your church is a wealthy one, and would survive without your money, give it directly to the poor instead. That's more in line with Jesus's teachings.
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 12:37 pm
I'm really iffy about donating to those TV evangelical leaders, I have seen a lot of stuff on the news and other sources of media that shows them spending donations on themselves instead of helping others and doing God's will.
I don't go to church since I'm unable to find one that I agree with so since I don't go I cant really donate to one.
However I do like to donate to shelters for animals and humans a like, donating food to those who need it, there used to be a homeless guy in town that I would give money too so he and his dog could eat. I also like feeding strays and stuff, might not be much but it's something? I like to make sure that the money I give is going to a good cause and not someones pocket. A lot of charities will keep a big percentage for worldly things and it will never go to the cause that it's originally meant for. Thats something I don't agree with, I try to avoid crooked charities.
Since you go to your mom's house for church how do you tithe? I'm just curious, I know I asked in a pm but other people in the guild might be in the same boat as me. I always thought that tithing was putting money in the offering plate at a church.
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Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 5:24 pm
Sanguina Cruenta You get your reward in heaven, not now. I think that being a kind and generous person tends to have plenty of potential rewards in the here and now. Now, whether you want to believe that it's a result of God directly rewarding good deeds, or some sort of belief in Karma, or just the fact that most people generally tend to appreciate others who are kind and helpful and therefore kind and helpful people are more likely to be treated well by others in various ways, it still amounts to benefitting from being an overall good person. That being said, I don't think that reaping the rewards should be one's primary reason behind performing good deeds, because that sort of turns a good deed into an act of selfishness ("I'm only going to give money to my church because I believe that God will improve my financial situation if I do" as opposed to "I'm going to give money to my church because we need new hymnals and the roof leaks, and I want our congregation to be able to enjoy worshipping together without missing pages while singing or getting wet when it rains"), but that doesn't mean you also need to deny the existence of such rewards, or at least potential rewards. And I agree with people's sentiments that you should be aware that not everyone asking for money needs it, or will put it to good use. Of course you should look into any organisation you're considering giving money to. @A-bot: I noticed that the title of the lecture/sermon that you're outlining here is called "Why isn't My Giving Working." What does that mean, exactly? It seems like if you can't see your giving working, you should look into giving somewhere else, or giving in another way. Or does it mean why aren't you getting stuff because of your giving? Because that's not really how "giving" generally works.
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 12:25 am
SinfulGuillotine Sanguina Cruenta You get your reward in heaven, not now. I think that being a kind and generous person tends to have plenty of potential rewards in the here and now. Now, whether you want to believe that it's a result of God directly rewarding good deeds, or some sort of belief in Karma, or just the fact that most people generally tend to appreciate others who are kind and helpful and therefore kind and helpful people are more likely to be treated well by others in various ways, it still amounts to benefitting from being an overall good person. This is true. By "reward" I was thinking more of material rewards, money etc. Giving your money and time because it feels good to help others is great. biggrin Quote: @A-bot: I noticed that the title of the lecture/sermon that you're outlining here is called "Why isn't My Giving Working." What does that mean, exactly? It seems like if you can't see your giving working, you should look into giving somewhere else, or giving in another way. Or does it mean why aren't you getting stuff because of your giving? Because that's not really how "giving" generally works. My interpretation was the latter - that by giving you should be earning more money.
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 9:48 am
Sanguina Cruenta This is true. By "reward" I was thinking more of material rewards, money etc. Giving your money and time because it feels good to help others is great. biggrin Well, sometimes the rewards are more material. Not in the sense that you buy a homeless person a meal and that night God will put £100 under your pillow while you're sleeping, but in a less direct sort of way. I'll just use my own example. I frequently fill in for the normal, hired organist at a nearby parish when he's ill or otherwise indisposed, and I do so free of charge. I've gotten quite a lot of paid work through members of that parish throwing my name out when someone they know mentions that they're looking for an organist (or pianist, or violinist). Now, would I continue to play there for free if this didn't happen? Absolutely, and I would do so quite happily. But am I happy that doing so also gets me paid work? You bet. Similar things can happen if you volunteer somewhere for a while and do good work there, and as a result they offer you a paid position. That's also happened to me. I mean, at the end of the day I try to be a good person because it's...well, it's just kind of who I am. And I don't mean that to sound arrogant. I'm a very empathetic person by nature, so I find joy in bringing others joy, and I feel crappy if I make other people feel crappy. Being an overall decent human being and caring about and helping others is really the only way I can live with myself. I don't do it for any reason other than that; not rewards, material or otherwise in this life, and not for rewards in the next life, but just because I think it's the right thing to do, and I don't like myself very much if I feel like I'm doing the wrong thing. And one could even argue that that, in itself, is sort of selfish. I help others because I do truly want to help them, but also because it makes me feel good. If it didn't make me feel good and give me a sense of satisfaction, would I still do it? I don't know. Probably not, honestly. Because of that, I don't really think most (if not all) humans are capable of committing truly selfless acts. It's in our nature to only do things that benefit us in some way, whether that be rewards in the afterlife, or just because it makes us feel good about ourselves. But I guess that's another debate.
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 10:23 am
Sanguina Cruenta I was unaware that you magically got stuff back when you tithed. I thought that sort of sacrificial exchange with deities was limited to us Pagans razz Tithing isn't giving to god, it's giving to the church. Your god doesn't need your money and doesn't need sacrifice for its own sake - or at least, that was my assumption. You pay tithes so that the parish church can get a new roof and the vicar can eat - tithings are his "wages", your payment for his services, and upkeep of the church buildings. You give so it can be redistributed as donations to charities or to pay for church events. That's why you don't trust those evangelicals on TV. They generally have suspicious amounts of money themselves and keep asking for more. They don't need your monetary support as a parish priest would, and frankly I should like to see receipts if they're claiming to give all of it to charity. There's one here who has a huge boat and his wife is covered in diamonds and they still have their hands out. They're greedy as all get-out and not at all holy. "Send us your money and good things will happen to you, and if good things aren't happening it's because you're not sending enough".... suspicious, I tell you. What are they doing with this money they are saying is going "to god"? If it can't be redirected to charities because that would count as "alms tithing", and it's not going towards buying the church a new roof, where does it end up? The pockets of the person who keeps asking for it? Jesus didn't talk about tithing. In fact there are verses you could interpret as being against it. But he did talk about selling all your possessions and giving the money to the poor. For that reason I would suggest it is unlikely that giving away your money would get you more money. You get your reward in heaven, not now. Don't do it because some guy told you it would get you more money. If your church is a wealthy one, and would survive without your money, give it directly to the poor instead. That's more in line with Jesus's teachings. THIS THIS THIS. Seeing tithe as a way to get more money seems a bit like magical thinking to me. I understand A-BOT is testifying her blessings, but I'm not really inclined to believe such blessings can be expected for everyone. I don't see tithing as a bad thing in general, but I am POOR. Sinful Guillotine put it well- I feel the time I volunteer is more valuable than the small sum I could afford to tithe, and the personal reward is also greater. I'm building relationships, having fellowship and directly helping the members of the church. I do give when I have the money to, and make a point to give money to the church when I have a windfall. Once I can afford to, I would like to start tithing because I believe in the good works my church is doing. They are very open with their finances and it certainly doesn't bother me to give when I can.
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High-functioning Werewolf
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Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 11:47 pm
What I'm talking about is not tithing or 'donating' your money for self wealth. It's not really about gaining the money all for yourself. But a lot of people don't believe God approves of wealthiness. But the real reason you tithe isn't supposed to be for yourself. God allowed money for this earth to use it as a tool. Money could put diamonds on a rich evangelists wife or it could provide new homes for hurricane victims or yes indeed, upgrades to churches. The use of money on the church should be to provide more opportunities to get people closer to God. When a church grows do you want to limit the number of people who can come in? No. You should expand the church or build new ones and plan events to show God to people. But can you build a church without money? That's what tithing and alms do. It's for God and His people. If He rewards you with more money don't be ashamed of it, it's your opportunity to give more. I'd love to have so much money I could buy an animal shelter more kennels, food, medicine and events to get their animals adopted or even operations that could save their lives as opposed to death. Point is money is useful and we think of it as ours too much. It can and is designed to improve the world.
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Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:05 am
SinfulGuillotine [@A-bot: I noticed that the title of the lecture/sermon that you're outlining here is called "Why isn't My Giving Working." What does that mean, exactly? It seems like if you can't see your giving working, you should look into giving somewhere else, or giving in another way. Or does it mean why aren't you getting stuff because of your giving? Because that's not really how "giving" generally works.
You should watch the actual sermon by the guy who delivered it. I was just sharing what I remembered of it. Basically, I think it means that a lot of church goers are tithing and wondering why they don't see the results they read in the bible about. He's explaining the different forms of giving and where your heart should be when you give. I can't stress enough that improved income is not about being able to live big and rich style. Time is important and speaks more effort than money but money has it's uses and it's ok to accept a deserved reward from God if you get blessed. He does want us to be happy and have things we enjoy. We don't have to deprive ourselves of things if they don't become idols in our lives. He can provide us with our needs, other people's needs and even have room to spare for some things we don't need.
@Sub:
I tithe to my mother when I see her Sundays for bible study because I learn more from her than years of going to the standard church. And I literally only started tithing last week so my own testimony is still in development. But I have heard others about tithing and the fruit of their giving is evident.
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Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:28 pm
I know you said that charities and stuff you shouldn't tithe too.
I have no spiritual leader, I'm on my own since I'm not part of a church.
I'm not drawn to any churches yet either, I've been praying about it but I haven't had any pulling to anything yet.
To me I really don't care if I get a reward or not, I'll give to anyone who needs it or at least try to help in some way.
I just don't see how it matters on the way you give as long as you do.
Weather it's some hobo or some charity, if it's for a good cause I don't really think Jesus will keep a tally score on it.
I also don't think that it's a sin to be wealthy but I think it's a sin to keep all the money to yourself, thats just being selfish and greedy.
You should always be giving or willing to give but where you give it too, if it's for a good cause I really don't see how it matters.
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Posted: Mon May 27, 2013 8:15 am
A-bot, do you have a link to either a video or a transcript of the sermon you're talking about?
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Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 1:15 am
@Sub: I don't think it's a sin to be rich. God can provide a large house and a nice car to someone as well as provide water wells, food, medical care, ect to the needy from that person's income if they have a heart to give. It's easy to be discouraged by the big wig evangelists abusing their money but God will deal with them. And if you think that wealth will really corrupt you then give it all away.
@Guillo: Sadly I haven't found it anywhere but then again I didn't look very hard. It's not on youtube, I can tell you that much. But if you do manage to hear it I'll admit he does brag a little in a couple areas but if you can get past that there is a lot of truth behind it.
So far there has been a result. The devourer that took the last of our money was defeated by continuing to tithe and we received everything we lost with $20 interest back. We have a bonus coming up that we plan to use as first fruits.
I am also continuing to have dreams about money. This time the amount was $10,000 and the dreams are beginning to imply responsibility for what to do with it.
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Posted: Tue May 28, 2013 6:03 am
Yeah, my searches came up pretty blank, too.
And I certainly don't think wealth is a sin in and of itself. I personally am not wealthy because I chose a career that generally doesn't pay especially well, not because I think there is some sort of holiness or moral superioity in poverty.
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Posted: Wed May 29, 2013 10:03 am
On a vaguely related note, I found £100 in the pocket of some trousers that I hadn't worn in a while. I unearthed them when I was packing and decided to wear them on the train, and when I reached into my pocket, bam! Moniez! Of course, I don't think this was something divine. I'm just super forgetful and a lot of my clothes never really made it into my closet after our most recent move. But still, I was pleased.
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