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 Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:34 pm
 I want you to take a long hard look at this picture. These children are from an obscure village in madagascar. They are starving, their bodies are either thin because of lack of fat or swolen because their bodies are starting to eat themselves. They've lived in porverty for their entire lives. The fact that each of them even has one piece of clothing to wear is a luxury for them. The camera is the first piece of modern day technology they have ever seen and maybe ever will see. It confuses them and they don't understand it. Their main diet consists of grubs and rats. They eat the entire rat, even the skull and brain, to squeeze what little nutrition they can out of it. Now, they've never heard of christianity before. They live in this secluded and forgotten little village where the only religion there might as well be is their own. They don't have time to think about those kinds of things anyway, theology and philosophy are for people who are comforatble enough living to have the time to think about those kinds of things. They are born into this village and if they survive to be age 3, which 45% of babies born there do, they will live a sheltered life until their death at the average age of 26. Now, the main thing that sticks out at me here is that they haven't accepted jesus as their savior. Hell, they didn't even know jesus existed. When they die, they go strieght to hell, right? I'm now wondering why. Why would they go to hell when all they've tried to do their entire lives is preserve the life god has given them and pass on their life to the next generation of their tribe? They haven't rejected god because our god, or any other gods besides their own, don't even exist to them. Not only that, but they also don't even know that they exist to others. In this picture you see about 15 out of over a billion people who will never know that there is such a thing as jesus. If what I've heard is true, 1/6th of the earth is getting sent to hell for being born and not knowing something that they couldn't know no matter how hard they wanted to or tried. Why does god send these people to hell?
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Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:55 pm
Short answer? Because all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. This sin makes up unable to be in His Presence and, thus, we are cast into Hell.
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Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:58 pm
Cometh The Inquisitor Short answer? Because all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. This sin makes up unable to be in His Presence and, thus, we are cast into Hell. Wow, god seems like an elitist to me...
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:40 am
No, the only people that go to hell are people who choose to believe that Jesus is not their Lord and Savior.
If they have never heard of them, then they have committed no sin. Trust me on this one, I go to Catholic Boarding School taught by Monks. They will not go to hell as long as they have tried to live a good life. If all they're doing is trying to survive, then I'm pretty sure they'll go to Purgatory then onto Heaven where all the Angels,Good People,and Martyrs are.
Also if a newborn dies, he to will go to Purgatory, not hell. God is not a cruel being.
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:02 am
And in Protestant belief, following Romans 2- It says that those who have not the law, but do by nature things required by the law, they become a law unto themselves with their actions bearing witness. That, along with other scriptures around it have come to be translated as meaning Those who have no knowledge of the law but follow what God has placed inside them as right will be saved- those who have not heard of Jesus but have and follow the law will be saved, and those who have heard of Jesus and accept him will be saved.
Thus- if they truly have not heard anything about Christ at all, but follow what is right by nature, they'll still be saved.
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:39 pm
You guys have it wrong. First of all, God does not send people to hell. It is our sin and ignorance of Jesus that does. Second, the ONLY way into heaven is by knowing Jesus as your saviour. Good works don't cut it. Ever (Isaiah 64:6). Third, God gave us plenty of evidence to know that an intelligent being created it (as opposed to a big bang randomly throwing junk together, somehow giving life). For instance, the earth is at just the right distance from the sun. Any further and we'd freeze. Any closer and we'd burn. Fourth, hell is simply a holding place, like prison, where the soul is separated from God. Then on the day of the "Great Judgement" or the "White Throne Judgement," God will decide who that was in hell, goes to heaven, or is thrown into the lake of fire. I do not know how He decides this, but the Bible says that He is a just God; His judgements will be fair.
Also, because we all have internal moral standards (i.e. conscience), that is reflective of an intelligent Creator. Also, it is God's obligation to reveal Himself to those who seek the message of Jesus Christ (see Hebrews 11:6; Jeremiah 29:13, and 1 Chronicles 28:9).
No human can claim ignorance of the existence of God, nor can they claim ignorance of personal sin. This knowledge requires a response, and it is up to the individual to respond.
The question is not: "What about those who have never heard?" but rather, "How will those people respond to the knowledge that they have already been given?". Another verse to see: Psalm 19, first 4 verses
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Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:00 pm
The Original Shady-T I want you to take a long hard look at this picture. These children are from an obscure village in madagascar. They are starving, their bodies are either thin because of lack of fat or swolen because their bodies are starting to eat themselves. They've lived in porverty for their entire lives. The fact that each of them even has one piece of clothing to wear is a luxury for them. The camera is the first piece of modern day technology they have ever seen and maybe ever will see. It confuses them and they don't understand it. Their main diet consists of grubs and rats. They eat the entire rat, even the skull and brain, to squeeze what little nutrition they can out of it. Now, they've never heard of christianity before. They live in this secluded and forgotten little village where the only religion there might as well be is their own. They don't have time to think about those kinds of things anyway, theology and philosophy are for people who are comforatble enough living to have the time to think about those kinds of things. They are born into this village and if they survive to be age 3, which 45% of babies born there do, they will live a sheltered life until their death at the average age of 26. Now, the main thing that sticks out at me here is that they haven't accepted jesus as their savior. Hell, they didn't even know jesus existed. When they die, they go strieght to hell, right? I'm now wondering why. Why would they go to hell when all they've tried to do their entire lives is preserve the life god has given them and pass on their life to the next generation of their tribe? They haven't rejected god because our god, or any other gods besides their own, don't even exist to them. Not only that, but they also don't even know that they exist to others. In this picture you see about 15 out of over a billion people who will never know that there is such a thing as jesus. If what I've heard is true, 1/6th of the earth is getting sent to hell for being born and not knowing something that they couldn't know no matter how hard they wanted to or tried. Why does god send these people to hell?
God isn't sending those people to hell. And it isn't his fault that his word and goodness haven't reached their ears and souls. No one is really to blame for this tragedy, so instead of trying to point an accusing finger at God, maybe we should try pointing the finger at ourselves and realize the faults within ourselves before we cast judgement on someone as great as God. And again, it is our responsibility to evangelize and spread the good word of god to people.
I think there comes a point in any christians life where we question God's motives, and we just have to accept and understand that God works in mysterious ways. Maybe this village of people suffer so people like you and i will wake up to this and start spreading God's love. Myabe it's something else, we will never know, but we have to understand that it is God's will that this happens, or it wouldn't be happening at all.
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Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 7:06 pm
Hmm... Dessona, are you aware that your sig (that pic, followed by that quote..) sort of implies that you're a whore? ^^;;;;; Just FYI, that's all.
And Shady-T, I don't believe those kids'll go to Hell for that reason. Not if God is really good and all-knowing. The kind of God that would send people to Hell for not knowing about him would most likely be not a god, but a spiteful, intergalactic toddler.
In which case, neither Heaven nor Hell would actually be infinite, so they'd get out eventually anyway.
That's just my opinion, after having thought about it for quite a while.
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Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:22 pm
The Original Shady-T Wow, god seems like an elitist to me... Hey, I didn't make the rules. /shrug, I know it kinda sucks. Though, I believe that sin is a concious choice and, as such babies cannot sin (and, therefore, cannot go to hell). I also believe that those without the knowledge of God can be Forgiven if they led a life that is close to that of God's commands.
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Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:22 am
Cometh The Inquisitor The Original Shady-T Wow, god seems like an elitist to me... Hey, I didn't make the rules. /shrug, I know it kinda sucks. Though, I believe that sin is a concious choice and, as such babies cannot sin (and, therefore, cannot go to hell). I also believe that those without the knowledge of God can be Forgiven if they led a life that is close to that of God's commands. That's incorrect. Yes, babies and young children who don't understand right from wrong or why Jesus died on the cross will go to Heaven. BUT, anyone who is able to distinguish between right and wrong and is capable of making a choice between God and Satan will either go to Heaven or Hell depending on their choice. No one will go to Heaven because of good works even if they haven't heard of Christ Jesus. The Bible clearly states that ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God and that NO ONE can get to Heaven without first knowing and believing in Christ Jesus.
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Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:37 pm
"A person who has never heard or exposed to the Gospel of Christ does not go to Hell because they have not heard the Gospel of Christ. People go to Hell (who have heard the Gospel) because they reject the revelation and light of God. Any person who does not believe in the Gospel of Christ (because they never heard it) will be judged on the bases of the knowledge which they possess of the living God, through nature, through revelation of the conscience and by the virtual fact that God says He has reveal himself and they don't accept him." -- Dr. Walter Martin
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Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:40 pm
We all have a moral code that is ingrained into us naturally. If a man has never heard of God, and he kills another man, hes still sinning since we instinctively know that murder is bad. If you say that this isn't true because _insert group here_ does _insert sin here_ their conscience has been hardened and dulled to the gravity of whatever their act is. It's difficult to type...makes sense in my head, but not when I write it.
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Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 8:34 am
Would those of you who are using the bible as your defense, please supply appropriate references (book, chapter, and verse)?
I feel that if you have not heard of Jesus or God, it's not your fault, and you can still go to heaven.
Titus 2:11 "God's readiness to give and forgive is now public. Salvation's available for everyone!"
John 1:9 "The Life-Light was the real thing. Every person entering Life, he brings into Light."
James 2:14-17 "Dear friends, do you think you'll get anywhere in this if you learn all the right words and never do anything? Does merely talking about a faith indicate that a person has it? For instance, if you come upon an old friend dressed in rags and half-starved and say 'Good morning friend! Be clothed in Christ! Be filled with the Holy Spirit!' and walk off without providing so much as a coat or a cup of soup--where does that get you? Isn't it obvious that God-talk without God-acts is outrageous nonsense?"
All of these verses speak of faith and salvation. Titus tells us that everyone is saved. John also says that everyone is born into God, and is saved through God. The verses from James are for those of you who say that these poor children are condemned to go to Hell for their ignorance.
I'll leave you with one last thought. If these children don't know God, it's our DUTY to bring Goth to them. I can't find the scripture passage right now, but Jesus says "Let the little children come to me."
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Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:23 pm
I guess, based on what others have replied with, that this is someting nobody really knows about, so it up to you to believe what you want to believe. What do I believe? Well I think kids and young ones who are not old enough to determine what is good and bad will not get punished, but people who are older, like adults, who have grown up learning the ways of life have that knowledge and therefore held responsible.
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Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:09 am
I tend to quote my old Chaplin (ELCA Lutheran) because he is the only one I've kept in touch with through all the moving the military has us do. But I wrote him specifically with this question and this is the reply I got:Chaplin Steve First, God is way more gracious and merciful than I am--after all, in the person
of Jesus he forgave even those who were nailing him to the cross. I could never
do something like that. So, if I were God, I would certainly have mercy on
these people who never had the opportunity to hear about Christ, so how much
more grace and mercy will God have on them?
The second thought I have on this subject is this: The only reason I believe in
Jesus is because the Holy Spirit enables me to believe--my faith has its source
in the Holy Spirit. So faith is not something that I do, it is something that
God creates in me. So it is not by my own reason or strength that I am saved,
but by God's. So, what it all comes down to is that I am no different from
those who have no faith, it is just that God chose to work that faith in me.
And finally, Moses and Elijah did not know Jesus. They were sinners who could
not believe in Jesus (because Jesus came around centuries after they lived).
But we know that Moses and Elijah were saved because when Jesus is transfigured
(Luke 9:28-36), they are right there with him in his glory. So they were saved
even though they did not nor could they believe in Jesus.
As you can see, all this is leading up to me thinking that God somehow has a
plan for saving these who never heard of him. But what that plan is, and how
God works in his grace I do not know. So I have to say like Paul, that I hope
and pray and ultimately believe that God will save these people, but that is
where their fate rests--the same place as ours--with God.
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