|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:15 pm
I thought about saving this for later, but, since a couple of contracts are on their way to being approved, it seemed like it would probably be useful to have this discussed as soon as possible. Just to put everyone in context, back when I had worked on the summoning system, there was one concept that I had had trouble finding how to implement, and therefore had left aside until I (or someone else) would find a way to have it incorporated effectively. The objective was to maximize the possibilities for every summon to have its unique particularities in ways that would have meaningful impacts on its stats, without altering system balance. At first, the increased cap on skills and stats was meant to allow such differentiation; but it quickly became very clear that it wasn't, by itself, really enough. After giving it some thought, I have recently thought of a way this might work. I therefore devised passive abilities/aspects that would work similarily to how genkais work for regular characters. These abilities would be separated in three categories: size, nature, and species' characteristics. Some of these concepts already existed under the previous system, but had been removed in the update. For example, there used to be a differentiation in stats based on the summon's size; but we had left it aside because we had not found a way to make it balanced enough for it not to be completely overpowered when a summoner met a non summoner of the same level. This mostly came from the fact that there was a fixed chakra cost to use the summoning jutsu, independantly from the creature's level or size. After having had a few opportunities to try out the summoning jutsu, I believe I have found a way to implement these various ideas while keeping the system balanced. First, my suggestion is that we add this section in every summon's sheet just before "Jutsus": [align=center][b]~Size and Abilities~[/b] [/align]
[u][b]Creature type[/b][/u]
[u][b]Physiological Characteristics[/b][/u]
[u][b]Size[/b][/u] Then, we would add the following section to the summoning thread in the appropriate post: IV. Creature Traits
Now that you've determined what the nature of your contract is, you need to determine what sets these summons apart from others, both as a group and individually. Many factors can influence a summon's nature and physiognomy, and therefore, its stats. In order to simplify classification, we've separated these in three groups: creature types, physiological characteristics, and summon's size.
Creature Type:
Every creature is made to strive in a particular environment. Birds are in the sky, pigs are on land and fishes dwell in the seas. Any creature's body is made to be at its maximum efficiency in its natural habitat. Therefore, most creatures sharing similar environments will have similar physical adaptations.
Keep in mind that the summon types listed here are not the only ones that can exist; but are the ones that will most commonly be found. You may have a new one approved for your contract, and, once it is, it will be added to this list.
Aquatic
Summon is a sea creature only capable of navigating water.
Rank: Ability, passive
Special:
*Summon can only move underwater.
*Summon can breathe underwater.
*Summon can only attack targets who are on or under water.
*Increase Melee Attack Bonus, Dodge Rating, Reflex and any check related to underwater movement by 30% when underwater.
Marine
Summon is a creature able to walk on land effectively but is nevertheless physiologically made to spend significant periods of time underwater.
Rank: Ability, passive
Special:
*Decrease DCs to hold breath by 50%.
*Decrease Base Attack Bonus, Dodge Rating, Reflex and any check related to land movement by 20% when on land.
*Increase Base Attack Bonus, Dodge Rating, Reflex and any check related to underwater movement by 20% when underwater.
Aerial
Summon is a creature adapted for flight. It's light volumic mass gives it the ability to soar the skies; but the physical adaptations required to achieve such an ability also make it more brittle.
Rank: Ability, passive
Special:
*Summon can achieve flight at the cost of one attack turn (dice roll).
*Every time summon swoops in on an enemy for a physical attack, it must use an attack turn (dice roll) to return to the skies.
*If in flight, summon can only be target of long ranged attacks and jutsus.
*If in flight, summon cannot be hopped on by hostiles unless they too are in flight or have a platform from which to jump on.
*Increase Dodge Rating and Reflex when in flight by 20%.
*Reduce hp by 40%. Apply penalty after size bonuses.
Physiological Characteristics:
Once a global category has been determined for your summons based on their general habitat, you may now add specific attributes that reflect their unique species or physiognomy. For example, a turtle has a shell that makes it tougher but less nimble, a cheetah's body is very light making it adapted for speed but less durable, etc. Basically, this is a physical characteristic that will alter your summon's stats. Note that not all summons will have such characteristics and that the principle that should guide you here is balance. The basic principle that all evolution is compromise applies as much here as it does in nature!
Kikkou (Tortoise Shell)
Summon has an extremely solid exosquelettal shell covering its back and thorax, greatly increasing its durability but inevitably hindering its agility.
Rank: Ability, passive
Special:
*Increase Constitution by 25%.
*Decrease Dexterity by 40%.
*Add natural armor bonus to dodge of [Level / 2].
Creature sizes:
Now that the specific characteristics of your summons as a group have been determined, you may now establish your individual summon's size. This factor will inevitably have an impact on your summon's stats, as well as, in some cases, its summoning cost. Note that not all summons in the same summoning contract have to be of the same size and that, like for all things, different summon sizes could be approved and added to this list if they do not yet exist.
Small
The summon is very small and light, allowing it to be carried by a person during combat. It's size, though making it easy to carry, also makes this summon more brittle.
Rank: Ability, passive
Special:
*Can "ride" or be carried by a person.
*While it is carried, replace summon's dodge rating and reflex by the carrier's.
*If target of a physical attack or jutsu, the summon can add its dodge rating to the carrier's for a single attack, but will have to hop off.
*If pushed off or jumped off the carrier, summon must use one attack turn (dice roll) to jump back on.
*Reduce constitution by 30%.
*Reduce strength by 30%.
Human Sized
The summon is about the size of a regular sized human being, making more versatile than creatures of other sizes.
Rank: Ability, passive
Special:
*No special effect.
Large
The summon is larger than a regular person, making it possible for a person to be carried by it or ride it, and making it stronger and tougher.
Rank: Ability, passive
Special:
*May only be summoned outside or in a large room.
*Can be rode or can carry a person. Summon suffers a -5 to dodge rating and reflex while ridden or carrying someone.
*While he or she is carried, replace user's dodge rating by the summon's.
*If target of a physical attack or jutsu while riding, the person can add his or her dodge rating to the summon's for a single attack, but will have to hop off.
*If pushed off or jumped off the summon, the person must use one attack turn (dice roll) to jump back on.
*Increase constitution by 50%.
*Increase chakra by 50%.
*Increase strength by 50%.
*Increase summoning cp cost by 50%.
Gigantic
The summon is extremely large, making it extremely strong and durable.
Rank: Ability, passive
Special:
*May only be summoned outside or in an extremely large room.
*Can be rode or can carry a person.
*While he or she is carried, add user's dodge rating to the summon's for any attack originating from off of the summon.
*If an attacker lands a physical attack on the summon, he can forego the damage and decide to hop on the summon instead in order to attack the rider directly.
*While rode, the summon can try to shake the rider(s) off at the cost of one attack turn (dice roll). Every time it does, riders must succeed an Acrobatics check of [d20 + Summon's Athletics] or fall off.
*While a hostile is riding the summon, if the summon has arms or appendages that can reach its head or back, it can try to swipe the hostile off at the cost of one attack turn (dice roll), calculated like any regular attack. If succesful, the attack damage is reduced by 75% and the hostile is brushed off.
*If pushed off or jumped off the summon, the rider must use one attack turn (dice roll) to jump back on.
*Increase constitution by 100%.
*Increase chakra by 100%.
*Increase strength by 100%.
*Increase summoning cp cost by 100%.What do you guys think?
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:58 pm
Hiru.... I am in love with this xD +1
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:16 pm
Land should have environmental bonuses and penalties... like how we have bonuses and penalties already for like... fire = desert/tundra = greater damage/weaker damage.
Depending on the summons's Element... they need a bonus or penalty. Maybe that could be in the default stats already, before you even do this stuff... or it could be a requirement no matter what the creator does...
So for Land... say their element is Fire and are in the cold Land of Iron. Well, they need a penalty, they are fighting the cold, even if they are naturally warmer. But their attacks will be weaker against others too, due to the cold. But when in the desert, their Fire attacks are far more effective... I would say that it doesn't matter if the land summon is fire, or water, or wind, or what ever... it needs the bonuses and penalties listed.
Physiological Characteristics....
Other ones could be Armored, like Armadillos and Crabs (I would not called them shelled). Spiky like Porcupines. Uhhh, Razor... Sharks... their scales are very dangerous actually...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:36 pm
This is a system change so only crew right?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:42 pm
hedpefan This is a system change so only crew right? Nah.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:30 am
Qyp Land should have environmental bonuses and penalties... like how we have bonuses and penalties already for like... fire = desert/tundra = greater damage/weaker damage. Depending on the summons's Element... they need a bonus or penalty. Maybe that could be in the default stats already, before you even do this stuff... or it could be a requirement no matter what the creator does... So for Land... say their element is Fire and are in the cold Land of Iron. Well, they need a penalty, they are fighting the cold, even if they are naturally warmer. But their attacks will be weaker against others too, due to the cold. But when in the desert, their Fire attacks are far more effective... I would say that it doesn't matter if the land summon is fire, or water, or wind, or what ever... it needs the bonuses and penalties listed. Physiological Characteristics.... Other ones could be Armored, like Armadillos and Crabs (I would not called them shelled). Spiky like Porcupines. Uhhh, Razor... Sharks... their scales are very dangerous actually...
As for land animals having bonuses... I was kinda wondering the same thing, but we as ninja don't have any unless we're in a clan. Somebody... I can't recall who, was making something with chameleons and having stat boosts. I'd have to look that up again... but with the whole cold thing... some land animals have fur protecting them somewhat from the cold. I think that example wouldn't apply to land animals in general, cause what about birds or fish? Surely the cold would effect them as well. Having nothing is kinda its own balance in a way... that's my way of thinking... does it make sense??? confused
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:53 pm
Exodus Revel Qyp Land should have environmental bonuses and penalties... like how we have bonuses and penalties already for like... fire = desert/tundra = greater damage/weaker damage. Depending on the summons's Element... they need a bonus or penalty. Maybe that could be in the default stats already, before you even do this stuff... or it could be a requirement no matter what the creator does... So for Land... say their element is Fire and are in the cold Land of Iron. Well, they need a penalty, they are fighting the cold, even if they are naturally warmer. But their attacks will be weaker against others too, due to the cold. But when in the desert, their Fire attacks are far more effective... I would say that it doesn't matter if the land summon is fire, or water, or wind, or what ever... it needs the bonuses and penalties listed. Physiological Characteristics.... Other ones could be Armored, like Armadillos and Crabs (I would not called them shelled). Spiky like Porcupines. Uhhh, Razor... Sharks... their scales are very dangerous actually...
As for land animals having bonuses... I was kinda wondering the same thing, but we as ninja don't have any unless we're in a clan. Somebody... I can't recall who, was making something with chameleons and having stat boosts. I'd have to look that up again... but with the whole cold thing... some land animals have fur protecting them somewhat from the cold. I think that example wouldn't apply to land animals in general, cause what about birds or fish? Surely the cold would effect them as well. Having nothing is kinda its own balance in a way... that's my way of thinking... does it make sense??? confused It does make sense. But say a fire lizard... a lizard being cold blooded should be weakened by the cold, but it's element is fire, so it's keeping itself warm via it's own element... doesn't see sunlight. And fur is a disadvantage in a desert...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:33 pm
Qyp It does make sense. But say a fire lizard... a lizard being cold blooded should be weakened by the cold, but it's element is fire, so it's keeping itself warm via it's own element... doesn't see sunlight. And fur is a disadvantage in a desert...
Fire-Based
*Touches cause burns.
*Decrease Constitution by 20% in cold places (Tundra, top of mountains, etc.) and increase Constitution by 20% in hot places (desert, volcano, etc.)
That would have to be fine tuned of course and was just an example xD
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:03 pm
Exodus Revel Qyp It does make sense. But say a fire lizard... a lizard being cold blooded should be weakened by the cold, but it's element is fire, so it's keeping itself warm via it's own element... doesn't see sunlight. And fur is a disadvantage in a desert...
Fire-Based
*Touches cause burns.
*Decrease Constitution by 20% in cold places (Tundra, top of mountains, etc.) and increase Constitution by 20% in hot places (desert, volcano, etc.)
That would have to be fine tuned of course and was just an example xDYeah, elemental traits.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:32 am
I'm not sure how much weight my opinion might carry not being crew or anything so important. But, I find that it might be easier to keep the words giving description to things rather standard.
That might seem like an obtuse comment. I'm sorry. What I mean to say is that the guild is based off old D&D logic and system math. The sizes for animals and items in D&D is readily found. It offers a larger scope of choices and gives qualifies as well as stat bonuses and detriments built right into the nature of there size.
As logic would dictate a tiny creature. E.X. An incomplete summon similar to the tadpoles we are shown early in the show would be remarkable difficult to hit in comparison to the much larger summons that make appearances later.
Not to say that a much larger summon would be effected in as drastic a manner as a smaller one, but it does give some measure of well measurement to be honest.
The sizes given are rather limiting and in some nature mis-leading. Mostly that comment references the human-sized category. Called Medium by D&D standards. Humans have a messy habit of being of vastly different sizes. From the present record holder of roughly 2 feet as a full grown adult to well over 10 feet. The spread there is rather large. The idea of qualifying the size category as adult human doesn't fix the problem, and average is a rather vague word that doesn't give any information. In case any curiosity remains after reading this I will provide the sizes as given by D&D and comparisons.
I'll also offer a small run down of the traits that will be listed in the mentioned chart in case anyone is unaware. If you know this information then you make just look for the next small group of this symbol : ~.
They will signify the start of purely numerical data.
First is the Size Modifiers. These are bonus or penalties based on a creatures size. They effect attack rolls, Grapple checks, hide checks, and other such factors. In D&D they also effect Armor checks, but that is irreverent in relation to this site, and game system. Both grapple checks and hide checks are directly listed in the average size chart. The other effected checks would be as common sense dictates. Height is in relation to a creature being a biped, or a quadruped. A biped is measured from head to toe well a quadruped is measured from snout to the base of the tail. Weight is treated as if the creature in question was of normal density.
~~~~~~~
|Size class||Size Modifier||Grapple/Hide Modifier||Height or Length||Weight|
|Fine| ---------- |+8| --------- | -16 +16| -------------- |6 in. or less| ----- |1/8 lb. or less|
|Diminutive| -- |+4| --------- |-12 +12| --------------- |6 in. - 1 ft.| ------- |1/8 lb. - 1 lb.|
|Tiny| ---------- |+2| --------- |-8 +8| ------------------ |1 ft. - 2 ft.| -------- |1 lb. - 8 lb.|
|Small| -------- |+1| --------- |-4 +4| ------------------ |2 ft. - 4 ft.| -------- |8 lb. - 60 lb.|
|Medium| ----- |+0| --------- |+0 +0| ----------------- |4 ft. - 8 ft.| -------- |60 lb. - 500 lb.|
|Large| ------- |-1| ---------- |+4 -4| ------------------ |8 ft. - 16 ft.| ------- |500 lb. - 2 tons|
|Huge| -------- |-2| ---------- |+8 -8| ------------------ |16 ft. - 32 ft.| ----- |2 tons - 16 tons|
|Gargantuan| |-4| ----------- |+12 -12| -------------- |32 ft. - 64 ft.| ----- |16 tons - 125 tons.|
|Colossal| ---- |-8| ----------- |+16 -16| -------------- |64 ft. or more| ---- |125 tons or more|
I didn't throw all this info at you because I was trying to be mean in any sense. I just figured it would take almost all the work away from having to create one from scratch. Chakra, and things of that nature would still have to be added in, but it would put the burden of classifying a creature on the shoulders of their creator and give a strict limit on what set one creature in one category or another. The promised comparison chart is here from an old D&D. The creature featured range from Tiny (cat) to Colossal (Red Dragon).->X<-
I hope this was helpful in some manner.
I will now return to my lurking.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:14 pm
Bringing this back in for the system update, what do you guys think?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:51 pm
With Land, you could kind of separate it into like those that can sprint, are naturally faster, etc (Like Feline and Canine related summons for instance), then those that are slow, Sloths, etc, and then those that barrow, and maybe more... agile creatures like Apes and Monkeys, should have something... Hmmm...
Give each of them an advantage and disadvantage, though I guess each summons could state their own maybe... But like state what Land actually is I suppose? Like Otters would be Marine really, so...
Annnd... I am totally taking Otters... for someone...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:58 pm
Qyp With Land, you could kind of separate it into like those that can sprint, are naturally faster, etc (Like Feline and Canine related summons for instance), then those that are slow, Sloths, etc, and then those that barrow, and maybe more... agile creatures like Apes and Monkeys, should have something... Hmmm... Give each of them an advantage and disadvantage, though I guess each summons could state their own maybe... But like state what Land actually is I suppose? Like Otters would be Marine really, so... Annnd... I am totally taking Otters... for someone... That's exactly what I had in mind but what you are describing is what is intended for physiological characteristics. I put "shelled" in there as an example; but when someone would make, for example, a cheetah summon, they could could make the physiological characteristic "light frame" that would increase speed at the cost of constitution.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 8:44 pm
Urza or Rosie is so going to get a sloth summon
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:36 am
Hoshigaki Hiru Qyp With Land, you could kind of separate it into like those that can sprint, are naturally faster, etc (Like Feline and Canine related summons for instance), then those that are slow, Sloths, etc, and then those that barrow, and maybe more... agile creatures like Apes and Monkeys, should have something... Hmmm... Give each of them an advantage and disadvantage, though I guess each summons could state their own maybe... But like state what Land actually is I suppose? Like Otters would be Marine really, so... Annnd... I am totally taking Otters... for someone... That's exactly what I had in mind but what you are describing is what is intended for physiological characteristics. I put "shelled" in there as an example; but when someone would make, for example, a cheetah summon, they could could make the physiological characteristic "light frame" that would increase speed at the cost of constitution. Yeah, Slow, Light, Fast... I dunno... some of those traits can be for a specific summons I suppose. But if we have set stuff for land, it might keep things balanced against the other terrains. Like maybe Desert based Summons, Which is a lot of reptiles and camels and stuff, and Tundra based summons, like Penguins, Polar Bears, etc... Some summons would just have a natural advantage in heated or cold places. Maybe you can just go with environmental bonuses, instead of worrying about physical abilities like running, digging and climbing? I dunno, mix it up if need be.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
