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A guild for Pagans of all stripes. Spirituality and religion-focused, celebrating nature and the gods. 

Tags: Paganism, Pagan, witchcraft, Goddess, Wicca 

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Visual representation of "the feminine".

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Sanguina Cruenta
Captain

Eloquent Bloodsucker

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:30 pm


So, here's a meaty subject. I came across this image on DA. It is called "She", and it's unclear whether this is a representation of a specific deity, a generalised goddess-figure, or an even more general feminine principle (or whatever).

I was looking at it, and the sperm bothered me. I couldn't work out why the sperm bothered me. I don't have a problem with sperm as a concept, or up close, as it were, so why did it bother me?

I realised after a while that it bothers me if it's supposed to be a symbol of "the feminine". Part of my mind was looking at it and thinking "why is sperm even in this image?". Assuming it is an image of a fertility goddess, it bothers me that her fertility is represented by the product of an outside agent.

And if it's not an image of a fertility goddess but of a more general feminine principle, there's a much bigger issue, as a person's fertility or lack thereof (let alone their desire to reproduce) isn't an indication of their identity or worth as a female. A uterus would be one thing, but this is a direct representation of pregnancy and that's something that really annoys me. And again, the feminine principle defined in part, in the centre of the image, by a huge male symbol. Maybe it's the artist's attempt at "a little of the yang in the yin" or something, but it comes across to me as the masculine acting on the passive feminine as a way of defining female fertility in itself, and cripes I thought we were past all that as a society.

(Then I had a long tangental think about what constituted "masculine" as a symbol and decided that even though (trans*) women and other-gendered individuals might have sperm, sperm itself is a masculine symbol. And then I started to wonder whether it could be a representation of something trans*-related, which would make it really interesting.)

NOW if it is a specific goddess then I can go soak my head because it's none of my business what that deity is like, how she is symbolised, etc etc. I don't get to dictate the realities of what deities are like, even if I find that something bothers me. But even if that's the case, I thought the image made an interesting topic of discussion. There's a lot of gender politics in Paganism, a lot of sexism against both sexes, and then the utter ******** that was the Dianic witchcraft's exclusion of trans women. Essentially, I, as a person who self-defines as a woman, resent the idea of being defined by my fertility (or lack thereof), and further, resent the idea of feminine fertility being represented by symbols of masculinity. Further I'm uneasy with the concept of a generalised goddess-figure being partly defined by the action of an outside figure upon her (frankly regardless of the nature of that outside figure), rather than represented in her own right.

I welcome your views, particularly those of you who are genderqueer.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:31 pm


I'm not entirely sure that they are meant to be sperm. I mean, I see it now and it's at least likely that they are intentionally sperm shaped. However, my first thought was that the stomach, with the swirly warm colors was a sun symbol and the sperm thingies were the sun's rays. Of course, the sun is often used as a generic masculine symbol as well.

Actually, the more I look at it, the more it feels like the ENP Goddess in all the books. With that, the masculine symbols in the area of the pregnant stomach would actually make a lot of sense, what with the God's place in that particular cycle, being both the lover and the son.

CalledTheRaven
Crew

Dapper Lunatic


Sanguina Cruenta
Captain

Eloquent Bloodsucker

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:16 am


Ah, coming from as well as going towards? That makes sense. And maybe you're right and it's a sun, and I'm just seeing things that aren't there. xd Sperm on the brain, for some reason???
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:56 am


Sanguina Cruenta
Ah, coming from as well as going towards? That makes sense. And maybe you're right and it's a sun, and I'm just seeing things that aren't there. xd Sperm on the brain, for some reason???


I think they're sperm. But the ENP Goddess is said to have made love to herself in order to birth the universe, and the God's first incarnation. I can easily see it being both sperm and sun. It wouldn't be an outside action, since she is creating Him from Herself. Afterwards, hard to say. It depends on whether or not you'd consider the God to be his own unique individual, or simply a different aspect of the Goddess. The whole thing is a big kettle of fish, with that particular dyad.

Also...it may be an attempt to represent the concept of polarity as "One without the other is incomplete" - although in that case I wouldn't try to represent the artwork as being solely about the Goddess in question. And the ENP Goddess is, imo, another of those concepts taken from Wicca's outer court that's totally misunderstood and misrepresented. The entire thing is theologically contradictory. So I think Yes, she is supposed to be a fertility goddess...but then she's also all other Goddesses, which really makes a damn mess of things.

I understand why this goddess would be offensive to people who are not heteronormative. (And don't even get me started on the 'woman's true fulfillment=broodmare' crap.) I don't like them much myself. But at the same time I also really want to say that if a person's offended by them, they can throw that particular deity construct on the midden heap and find a form of deity that -does- work for them. Nothing says they have to like, agree, or accept the entire 'All Gods are One'
approach, and they should feel free to give it the finger and move on. After all, a large part of defining ourselves involves removing from our presence those who insist on using definitions we don't want, need, or use.

Morgandria
Crew

Aged Shapeshifter


Sanguina Cruenta
Captain

Eloquent Bloodsucker

PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:01 pm


That's very true; the image bothers me, but that doesn't really mean anything in the grand scheme of things. I thought about asking the artist about the image and then decided, in the end, that no matter how I phrased it it would come across as unnecessarily antagonistic, whether I wanted it to or not. Really it's none of my business how she represents her deity. It bothers me, but that's as far as it goes.

I think I'm wondering what it implies in general terms about.... society, or whatever, when it's one person's image and it doesn't necessarily imply anything. And yet I still find it interesting.
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