Welcome to Gaia! ::

I'll preface this by saying that I'm pagan, so I might be totally off base here. But I'm also required to attend church with my parents and do some extensive bible studying as a condition of living in their house, so to my understanding it's like this:

According to the Bible God made everything and therefore owns everything. That's what 1 Corinthians 10:26 is saying - everything is owned by God.

Now when you're reading John 12:31, keep in mind that Satan is also a creation and he is, according to the bible, roaming the earth deceiving the humans to do sinful things that separate them from God, thus getting them sent to hell. To my understanding what the bible meaning when it calls Satan the prince/ruler of the world, is that the humans are allowing himself to be led astray by him because he is the prince the lies.

In Matthew (the mount of olives sermon, don't remember the exact verse) Jesus says that "the truth will set you free." They mention elsewhere that being tied up in sin is like being a slave, and since Satan is the one who tempts people to sin, the sinners are more or less enslaved to his purposes, thus making him the ruler of the world in a sense.

This isn't to say that God doesn't still own the world, just that he is maintaining his policy on not messing with the freewill of the humans and allowing this situation described above.

What John 12:31 is getting at is the time when God finally says enough's enough and kicks Satan out. It's referring to judgment day. This is also brought up towards the end of Revelations where it mentions the authority of the Christ or Jesus has come because Satan's been thrown into the lake of fire as punishment for ruling the world and tempting the humans thing.

Now about Jesus - Jesus is referred to as the "king of kings" implying that he is ranked above the kings of the earth. He's kind of a prince in the heavenlies, being the son of God and seated at God's right hand in heaven.

So in Rev. 1:5 the "is and was and is to come" is referring to God, the father, and his immortality. The second half refers to Jesus. The "faithful witness" part refers to his ministry on earth where he walked around telling people about how to attain salvation. "Firstborn from the dead" simply means the first guy to die and rise again on his own. And "ruler of the kings of the earth" is just saying he outranks all the human kings with his heavenly prince status.

So in short God owns the entire universe and therefore technically rules the world, but Satan is currently allowed to have dominion over it because God won't mess with free will. Jesus is like second in command to God.

I hope that makes sense. And like I said this is just what the bible says to my understanding. It dawns on me I could have referenced more verses. Let me know if you want to know where I read what I mentioned, and keep in mind I in no way actually believe any of this. I just happen to read the Bible a lot.

Oh your welcome. And no, debating that point with me probably does make less sense than the bible itself - especially since I would not really have a rebuttal argument, as I basically agree with your point. I was told by a bible teacher once (my parents made me attend Christian school as a kid) that Satan gets to do stuff because God allows him to do stuff. So his rule of the earth is allowed by God. Which raised the question for me of how can God be good like the bible says he is if he A) created Satan, "the evil one" and B) allows him to mess with people, and for that matter how could God be the all-loving father if he allows another spiritual being to torment his kids. The only way it'd make sense to me would be if the Christian God and Satan actually were, as you said, on par with each other in power. I suggested all that to my bible teacher and she sent me to the office where the principal didn't answer my question either, but instead gave me a very long talking to about being blasphemous. So I honestly can't say any more on the Christian perspective of the matter than that.

Although Allah (God) is the ruler there are many people in this world that can be considered rulers in the world, but there is a HUGE difference between Allah being the ruler, and one of us being a ruler.

Allah is the king of the kings and the rulers of the rulers. As we know a ruler is a king whose rules encompass a group of people living in a particular piece of land, the stronger the ruler is the greater king. This is why rulers in this world try to do two things: 1) Try to prove and impress people that they are very powerful/strong 2) Try to expand their land, because the larger the area, the more powerful he is. Regardless of how much rulers will try in this world, there are certain things, they can do nothing about. There are countless shortcomings to even count in being a ruler in this world. For Instance:

-Any ruler in this world will always have boundaries, Allah has no boundaries, Allah’s kingdom is beyond our imagination and our imagination has boundaries. Allah’s rule is limitless.

-A ruler in this world always has a fear that someone will take them over, and this is why rulers worry about it, plan for it and will spend millions trying to protect their kingdom. But Allah can never be taken over because Allah is the one, only and greatest, there is none besides Allah. Even if the rule is not worried about someone taking over, other rulers will be afraid that no one can take over. There is always fear. Subhnallah (How perfect Allah is) this fear can get to the point where the biggest ruler in the world will be afraid that a fly will try to overturn him, this is a huge difference, Allah is not afraid of us but we are afraid of Allah. Look at what Allah says, “They plot but Allah is the best of plotters”, there is no way in the world we can find protection from what Allah has planned for us. Look at the story of Abraha, Allah did not send angels or lions, Allah sent little birdies with pebbles and look, destroyed. Allah uses these minor signs to show how great Allah is. When Abraham faced Nemrot, Allah destroyed him with a mosquito. The same man who said that he gives life and death.

-People who rule in this world do not have the power to live any way they would like or do whatever they want, they have limitations and are under the scrutiny of their followers. Anyone who rules in this world, will have to leave. If he is not turned over, or quits, he will have to leave this world one day. This is not the case with Allah, Allah has no limitations and Allah’s rule has no time frame. And Allah does not care and does not have to care about what “people” think, Allah does not have to worry about the consequences of his actions.

-The ruler in this world does not own what he rules, everything that Allah rules, Allah owns. This is why in Surah Fatiha (chapter 1 in the Quran), Allah is the owner and ruler. As Allah rules, Allah has power over each and everything he rules.

If we look at some of the verse in the Quran that uses this attribute of Allah we will see the power of Allah as a king,

“So high [above all] is Allah , the Sovereign, the Truth…” 20:114

“So exalted is Allah , the Sovereign, the Truth; there is no deity except Him, Lord of the Noble Throne.” 23:116

“He is Allah , other than whom there is no deity, the Sovereign, the Pure, the Perfection, the Bestower of Faith, the Overseer, the Exalted in Might, the Compeller, the Superior. Exalted is Allah above whatever they associate with Him.” 59:23

“Whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth is exalting Allah , the Sovereign, the Pure, the Exalted in Might, the Wise.” 62:1

“The Sovereign of mankind.” 114:2

as for satan; heres a portion of his story:

Allah said "We created and shaped you, then told the angels to prostrate themselves before Adam. All the angels obeyed except Satan who did not God asked "what made you disobey Me?" satan replied "i am better than Adam, for You have created me out of fire, and Adam out of clay" the Lord ordered satan to get out of paradice saying "this is no place for you to be proud. get out of this place, for you are worthless. Satan asked the Lord to give him respite until the day of ressurection. the lord said "We will grant you respite" (How great Allah is! He even answers satan's requests. Why wouldn;t He answer ours? He will all we have to do is ask) then satan said "because you have made me go astray, i shall certainly try to seduce people into straying from the right path. i shall attack them from all directions and You will not find many of them giving You thanks" the Lord said " get out of this garden for you are banished and despised. hell will be fillled with all of those who follow you" this is how satan came to the world and still whispers in our heads attempting to lead us astray till this day.

Thanks for explaining. I'm not sure if I'm entirely comfortable with all your answers, but I'll think about them and thank you for your time.

Hell was indeed created by God and watched over by Satan.

He is a servant of God, supposedly.


Anyways God gave freedom of will and then he tests people to see how they act.

The devil cannot actually intervene, just tempt people.

i totally agree with this statement. satan cant actually force us to do anything we dont want to do he just uses our weaknesses to his advantage. he takes that little doubt in you whispers his encuragement to sin.

The issue is that I am Christian, and Islam isn't. I'm not going to buy into its method of salvation, its prophet, a lot if its rules, etc. I understand it just fine, but I won't support it because I've aligned myself on this side with Christianity.