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 Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:28 pm
though this is an active board, i rarely see anyone posting on the abortion debates in ED... i would love to, but the choicer in charge had me thrown out... and yes, i know, they don't playu fair. but ya know why? they have power in numbers, they run the field right now, they have turned us away with their insults and bans...however, if we all go back, then we can outnumber them, make them less secure, and make the abortion debate more of a debate than a joke against our cause. it is very difficult for one person to stand up and get hammered with their questions and insults- but if we all go together, we can even it out a tad.
just throwing this out there.
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:33 pm
I know what you mean, but there's no point in going there anymore. It's not a debate and it never will be. Even when we go in together, instead of arguing points, they'll debate the same thing for three hours, like whether a fetus is alive or not (because we all know we're dead until birth) and then say, "Wow, you'd think you'd move on after all this time," even though they're the ones who won't let it drop.
Last time I went in there I got so offended I ended up having a tiny seizure. It's seriously not the place to go if you have any respect for...anyone, because they won't extent respect to you or listen to you. They just want to have a pep rally.
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:39 pm
Yeah, I don't go in there anymore. I debated for about a year a while ago, and I've had my fill. My personality has changed, and I can't deal the same way with the things in there. It's not worth the stress, and I have better things to do with my time.
I haven't seen him for a while, but FreeArsenal had a good point when he said that it's a waste of time anyways. I mean, when I enjoyed debating, it was great. But since I no longer enjoy debating with people who aren't going to try and see from my side? I'd rather be cleaning my room, or watching paint dry. It's not like I'm very likely to help anyone. Yeah, I know it happens sometimes that it catches someone's eye, and they decide not to have an abortion or whatever because of it. And that's great. But given the time to people converted ratio... It's not worth it.
Not saying that we should abandon it; But I'm leaving it to people who like to debate with people who are not going to agree with them. And I firmly believe that a fresh Pro-Lifer who's never debated before should spend some time debating, because it helps to build your knowledge and your argument. As long as you have a rational and open mind. I know it helped me.
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:40 pm
lymelady I know what you mean, but there's no point in going there anymore. It's not a debate and it never will be. Even when we go in together, instead of arguing points, they'll debate the same thing for three hours, like whether a fetus is alive or not (because we all know we're dead until birth) and then say, "Wow, you'd think you'd move on after all this time," even though they're the ones who won't let it drop. Last time I went in there I got so offended I ended up having a tiny seizure. It's seriously not the place to go if you have any respect for...anyone, because they won't extent respect to you or listen to you. They just want to have a pep rally. and we need to take that pep rally, wad it up into a volley ball and spike it into their facees. the thing is, they are there a lot, and often. we have maybe two lifers on there per day. if we all go in, it will not be a pep rally since they will be too busy trying to outhink undeniable logic. we simply need to even out the field, we are getting cornered right now. if we all support eachother and back eachother up, we can make an impact- much like how it works in the real world- if we hope to get our laws passed, we cannot just sit back and hope for some miracle judge, nor can we hope for a prodigy or epiphany of truth. we have to band together and act.
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:42 pm
It really isn't worth it in the long run. ED is not the battlefield where this issue will be decided. It won't be done on any internet forum.
One thing I love about this guild is because we are approaching "pro-life" from all sorts of angles. Not too long ago, I checked out my introduction post and I am astounded at how much my view has grown, expanded and matured. I have learned so much being here.
We teach each other here to the point where we pick out flaws in our own arguements. ED doesn't do that. I feel that I am better prepared for a real debate by hanging out here than in ED. They don't teach each anything in there except how to gang up on people. That only means they won't be able to stand on their own two feet when fighting alone.
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:44 pm
divineseraph lymelady I know what you mean, but there's no point in going there anymore. It's not a debate and it never will be. Even when we go in together, instead of arguing points, they'll debate the same thing for three hours, like whether a fetus is alive or not (because we all know we're dead until birth) and then say, "Wow, you'd think you'd move on after all this time," even though they're the ones who won't let it drop. Last time I went in there I got so offended I ended up having a tiny seizure. It's seriously not the place to go if you have any respect for...anyone, because they won't extent respect to you or listen to you. They just want to have a pep rally. and we need to take that pep rally, wad it up into a volley ball and spike it into their facees. the thing is, they are there a lot, and often. we have maybe two lifers on there per day. if we all go in, it will not be a pep rally since they will be too busy trying to outhink undeniable logic. we simply need to even out the field, we are getting cornered right now. if we all support eachother and back eachother up, we can make an impact- much like how it works in the real world- if we hope to get our laws passed, we cannot just sit back and hope for some miracle judge, nor can we hope for a prodigy or epiphany of truth. we have to band together and act. Except that's way different. Debating in there isn't going to pass a law. It isn't even going to convert (very many.) Most people have their opinions, and they are going to keep them. Again, people who enjoy it should stay. For one thing, it gets out that the Pro-Life side exists and has arguments. But I don't think that having a large group go in is going to help at all. On the other hand, it might not be a bad idea to start setting up times that a lot of people who are willing to debate can get on. To level the field a little bit. But don't expect everyone or even all that many. A lot of people who post frequently in here are burned out from debating in the main thread. Last, you apparently missed that Kate had a seizure last time she was in there: She physically cannot do it for health reasons.
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:48 pm
I.Am divineseraph lymelady I know what you mean, but there's no point in going there anymore. It's not a debate and it never will be. Even when we go in together, instead of arguing points, they'll debate the same thing for three hours, like whether a fetus is alive or not (because we all know we're dead until birth) and then say, "Wow, you'd think you'd move on after all this time," even though they're the ones who won't let it drop. Last time I went in there I got so offended I ended up having a tiny seizure. It's seriously not the place to go if you have any respect for...anyone, because they won't extent respect to you or listen to you. They just want to have a pep rally. and we need to take that pep rally, wad it up into a volley ball and spike it into their facees. the thing is, they are there a lot, and often. we have maybe two lifers on there per day. if we all go in, it will not be a pep rally since they will be too busy trying to outhink undeniable logic. we simply need to even out the field, we are getting cornered right now. if we all support eachother and back eachother up, we can make an impact- much like how it works in the real world- if we hope to get our laws passed, we cannot just sit back and hope for some miracle judge, nor can we hope for a prodigy or epiphany of truth. we have to band together and act. Except that's way different. Debating in there isn't going to pass a law. It isn't even going to convert (very many.) Most people have their opinions, and they are going to keep them. Again, people who enjoy it should stay. For one thing, it gets out that the Pro-Life side exists and has arguments. But I don't think that having a large group go in is going to help at all. On the other hand, it might not be a bad idea to start setting up times that a lot of people who are willing to debate can get on. To level the field a little bit. But don't expect everyone or even all that many. A lot of people who post frequently in here are burned out from debating in the main thread. Last, you apparently missed that Kate had a seizure last time she was in there: She physically cannot do it for health reasons. i know it will not change laws, but change one mind, change the world, you know? i think it would be a very good idea for those of us willing to get organized... again, though, i cannot go even if i wanted to, i was banned by a choicer... their second favorite tactic when one stands up to their insults
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:54 pm
I don't understand that; How does banning work? I believe it's Talon's thread, so she should be able to un-ban you.
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:58 pm
I.Am I don't understand that; How does banning work? I believe it's Talon's thread, so she should be able to un-ban you. she should, but doesn't. i wonder if my position on the debate would be any reason for that? naaah, couldn't be.... neutral
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:06 pm
divineseraph I.Am I don't understand that; How does banning work? I believe it's Talon's thread, so she should be able to un-ban you. she should, but doesn't. i wonder if my position on the debate would be any reason for that? naaah, couldn't be.... neutral Um, have you ever directly asked her? Because that could be part of the reason too. It just seems to me that if they are going to ban Pro-Lifers and leave them banned, they wouldn't just ban you.
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:07 pm
The problem is, even if we leveled the playing field in numbers, we'll never get through their insults. This is why I treat it as war, a futile one that will never actualy end, even if we compltly banned all forms of abortions unles sit is necesarry for the life of the mother. They have to have open minds, and for the most part they do not.
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:10 pm
I.Am divineseraph I.Am I don't understand that; How does banning work? I believe it's Talon's thread, so she should be able to un-ban you. she should, but doesn't. i wonder if my position on the debate would be any reason for that? naaah, couldn't be.... neutral Um, have you ever directly asked her? Because that could be part of the reason too. It just seems to me that if they are going to ban Pro-Lifers and leave them banned, they wouldn't just ban you. i notice they never ban certain lifers who are a lot more offensive and blatant... i think they just have a shorter fuse when dealing with lifers.. you are right, i could ask, but screw that. i'm not going to ask permission to express my oppinion, especially when it will be matched with insults.
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:10 pm
I will occasionally post in the thread but Ive noticed an irritating trend.
When I or my wife use statistics or philosophical arguments to prove something wrong, nobody responds to it. They will quote an entire post of mine, and retort every point except the ones that they have no answer. So basically what happens is that when I get some momentum and prove someone wrong, it gets left behind and covered by 20 posts pointing out other places that they disagree on.
Also, many many people in the ED thread cannot grasp the concept of debate. Theyll respond to my analogies, such as my Artic Boat analogy and my Giants Mouth analogy and say "well SEE they could have used a lifeboat!!" without understanding how the analogy relates to abortion. Wheres the lifeboat? They dont "get it."
A few of them are decent debaters, but the vast majority are rude. I cant name out anybody of course, but all you have to do is go to the thread and youll see them right there.
Right now Im working on compiling all of my arguments together and fine tuning them. My goal is to create an essay, or group of essays, revamping the pro-life argument. I want to bring out some of the more original ideas and responses to the pro-choice argument as well as rephrase and reassert the old ideas in a fresh and articulate manner. Ive had my fill of debating the abortion topic with immature 12 year olds.
Another problem I have is that I tend to make mega-posts covering a wide area of topics, which ends up making posts that takes literally hours. I work 30+ hours a week of hard manual labor, I have a 9 month old son, Im still a "newly-wed" as in being only married for less than 2 years, and I go to school part-time. All this and I still want to enjoy my own life, so making repeated hour long posts is very difficult to pull off. I once didnt sleep before work because I was up posting all night. Its very hard, and it feels very fruitless when you get a response like "OMG U R DUMb" or "Well, honey, listen up okay dear, see you are wrong because I say so, mkay? Now move along!"
I will write a few essays on the subject and have you guys read them and maybe we can all foray into the ED thread again. However, I think it would be best to bring up each point seperately in the Abortion Debate Guild, so that when a specific point is argued to the end, it is obvious what the conclusion is.
Anyways thats my rant...in mega-post form again *sigh*
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:12 pm
Pyrotechnic Oracle The problem is, even if we leveled the playing field in numbers, we'll never get through their insults. This is why I treat it as war, a futile one that will never actualy end, even if we compltly banned all forms of abortions unles sit is necesarry for the life of the mother. They have to have open minds, and for the most part they do not. but they insult because they are overconfident- if we give them something to think about... you may be right, but it pains me to allow them to talk that s**t there, make their lovely jokes about how right their genocide is...
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:19 pm
I actualy think the insults and jokes are needed to an extent. A test of sorts. I see it as a way to weed the intelegence form the ignorance. Ah honostly intelegent choicer will, perhpasnot condem it, but not join in on it and express their disaproval of it. Those are the choicers I prefer to debate with, those are the ones who actualy have some chance of seeing the truth in Life.
Hmmm...I think Mcphee was that way. Please correct me if I'm wrong McPhee
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