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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:18 am
So, Flutterbitch has made a comeback? YES! Honestly, I think this is my new favorite episode. I am not even joking. Plus, Iron Will is now our second character that speaks of himself in 3rd person. IronXTrixie anypony? Lol jk, that'd be horrible. But somepony will still do it. So, what was your guys' favorite part of the new episode? Mine was when Angel b***h-slapped Fluttershy. I raged, SO HARD! But i lold, SO MUCH HARDER!
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:40 pm
Venatus75 So, Flutterbitch has made a comeback? YES! Honestly, I think this is my new favorite episode. I am not even joking. Plus, Iron Will is now our second character that speaks of himself in 3rd person. IronXTrixie anypony? Lol jk, that'd be horrible. But somepony will still do it. So, what was your guys' favorite part of the new episode? Mine was when Angel b***h-slapped Fluttershy. I raged, SO HARD! But i lold, SO MUCH HARDER! Pinkie pie conning other ponies was my favorite, also crying Rarity made me sad...
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:55 pm
TANRailgun Venatus75 So, Flutterbitch has made a comeback? YES! Honestly, I think this is my new favorite episode. I am not even joking. Plus, Iron Will is now our second character that speaks of himself in 3rd person. IronXTrixie anypony? Lol jk, that'd be horrible. But somepony will still do it. So, what was your guys' favorite part of the new episode? Mine was when Angel b***h-slapped Fluttershy. I raged, SO HARD! But i lold, SO MUCH HARDER! Pinkie pie conning other ponies was my favorite, also crying Rarity made me sad... Crying Pinkie and Rarity made me sad as well...
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Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:58 pm
Really wish the fandom had settled for a name for Fluttershy's dark form that wasn't contemptuously misogynistic. Need to watch the epp, but I've been busy watching Lord of the Rings. And sleeping. And setting the ED on fire.
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Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:04 pm
The Living Force Really wish the fandom had settled for a name for Fluttershy's dark form that wasn't contemptuously misogynistic. Need to watch the epp, but I've been busy watching Lord of the Rings. And sleeping. And setting the ED on fire. You see, THIS is my problem with feminism. Calling someone a b***h is only sexist if calling a guy a d**k is as well.
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Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:20 pm
TANRailgun The Living Force Really wish the fandom had settled for a name for Fluttershy's dark form that wasn't contemptuously misogynistic. Need to watch the epp, but I've been busy watching Lord of the Rings. And sleeping. And setting the ED on fire. You see, THIS is my problem with feminism. Calling someone a b***h is only sexist if calling a guy a d**k is as well. Fun fact: It is sexist. I fail to see how that's a problem with feminism, consequently.
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Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:45 pm
The Living Force TANRailgun The Living Force Really wish the fandom had settled for a name for Fluttershy's dark form that wasn't contemptuously misogynistic. Need to watch the epp, but I've been busy watching Lord of the Rings. And sleeping. And setting the ED on fire. You see, THIS is my problem with feminism. Calling someone a b***h is only sexist if calling a guy a d**k is as well. Fun fact: It is sexist. I fail to see how that's a problem with feminism, consequently. The problems are 1) You never hear a feminist complaining about misandry, only misogyny. 2) Every gender based injustice in the world is the fault of men (according to them) and 3) They over react to EVERYTHING, if I call someone a b***h, it means I think they are acting in a way I find to be inappropriate, aggressive, mean-spirited, and/or extremely selfish, it DOES NOT mean I hate women, it does NOT make me a misogynist. Edit: Also I would like you to explain to me HOW these insults are sexist? Is it simply because they are not gender neutral?
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Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:49 pm
TANRailgun The Living Force TANRailgun The Living Force Really wish the fandom had settled for a name for Fluttershy's dark form that wasn't contemptuously misogynistic. Need to watch the epp, but I've been busy watching Lord of the Rings. And sleeping. And setting the ED on fire. You see, THIS is my problem with feminism. Calling someone a b***h is only sexist if calling a guy a d**k is as well. Fun fact: It is sexist. I fail to see how that's a problem with feminism, consequently. The problems are 1) You never hear a feminist complaining about misandry, only misogyny. 2) Every gender based injustice in the world is the fault of men (according to them) and 3) They over react to EVERYTHING, if I call someone a b***h, it means I think they are acting in a way I find to be inappropriate, aggressive, mean-spirited, and/or extremely selfish, it DOES NOT mean I hate women, it does NOT make me a misogynist. Edit: Also I would like you to explain to me HOW these insults are sexist? Is it simply because they are not gender neutral? 1) I hear feminists complain about it all the time. 2) Strawman 3) Perspective. I have found it to be true that many who accuse others of overreacting simply are ignorant of either the context, etymology, or responsibility that comes along with use of language. For instance, linguistic relativity is the theory that ones' language determines how they perceive reality. If a language is incredibly loaded with sexist speech, it is highly likely that the society whereupon it is spoken will be sexist. Thus, attempts to remove sexist speech are done so not to be politically correct or what have you but rather to rewrite the framework upon which our reality is draped so as to be more conducive to equality and humanity. @EDIT: They are sexist because they delegate a person into their purely reproductive role. You are not a person, nuanced and feeling, you are a ******** object which makes babies. Entirely unacceptable to proliferate in humane discourse, consequently. PS: I'm torn between thinking I sound awesome and pretentious. I'm not trying to do either. Maybe I should stop reading Strunk and White's Elements of Style for fun.
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:15 am
The Living Force TANRailgun The Living Force TANRailgun The Living Force Really wish the fandom had settled for a name for Fluttershy's dark form that wasn't contemptuously misogynistic. Need to watch the epp, but I've been busy watching Lord of the Rings. And sleeping. And setting the ED on fire. You see, THIS is my problem with feminism. Calling someone a b***h is only sexist if calling a guy a d**k is as well. Fun fact: It is sexist. I fail to see how that's a problem with feminism, consequently. The problems are 1) You never hear a feminist complaining about misandry, only misogyny. 2) Every gender based injustice in the world is the fault of men (according to them) and 3) They over react to EVERYTHING, if I call someone a b***h, it means I think they are acting in a way I find to be inappropriate, aggressive, mean-spirited, and/or extremely selfish, it DOES NOT mean I hate women, it does NOT make me a misogynist. Edit: Also I would like you to explain to me HOW these insults are sexist? Is it simply because they are not gender neutral? 1) I hear feminists complain about it all the time. 2) Strawman 3) Perspective. I have found it to be true that many who accuse others of overreacting simply are ignorant of either the context, etymology, or responsibility that comes along with use of language. For instance, linguistic relativity is the theory that ones' language determines how they perceive reality. If a language is incredibly loaded with sexist speech, it is highly likely that the society whereupon it is spoken will be sexist. Thus, attempts to remove sexist speech are done so not to be politically correct or what have you but rather to rewrite the framework upon which our reality is draped so as to be more conducive to equality and humanity. @EDIT: They are sexist because they delegate a person into their purely reproductive role. You are not a person, nuanced and feeling, you are a ******** object which makes babies. Entirely unacceptable to proliferate in humane discourse, consequently. PS: I'm torn between thinking I sound awesome and pretentious. I'm not trying to do either. Maybe I should stop reading Strunk and White's Elements of Style for fun. 1) I have NEVER IN MY LIFE heard a feminist complain about misandry, and certainly not as often as I hear them complain about misogyny (which is ******** constantly). 2) That's how I understand it, if I have an overly simplistic view of it then please, enlighten me. 3) So basically what you are saying is that intent is irrelevant? What you're saying is that every time anyone uses a word it has the exact same meaning? And you're accusing ME of not knowing enough about language? @@Edit: How is the word "b***h" delegating a person into their purely reproductive role? That's a stretch, a long one. If we lived back in the 15th century, then you may have a point, but not anymore, not by a long shot. @PS You almost always sound pretentious to me, but that's because we have completely different ways of approaching things, and I feel like I'm much more laid back about things. Honestly when I debate with you I think of the typical armchair liberal, someone more likely to just piss me off with all their "holier than thou" BS, even if I agree with them. Which I'm not saying you are, but that is how I perceive the way you act sometimes. And it's not like I hold my perception of you being pretentious against you. I'm rather good at keeping my feelings like that suppressed most of the time, and I'm usually wrong anyway, just thought I'd be honest.
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:30 am
TANRailgun The Living Force TANRailgun The Living Force TANRailgun The Living Force Really wish the fandom had settled for a name for Fluttershy's dark form that wasn't contemptuously misogynistic. Need to watch the epp, but I've been busy watching Lord of the Rings. And sleeping. And setting the ED on fire. You see, THIS is my problem with feminism. Calling someone a b***h is only sexist if calling a guy a d**k is as well. Fun fact: It is sexist. I fail to see how that's a problem with feminism, consequently. The problems are 1) You never hear a feminist complaining about misandry, only misogyny. 2) Every gender based injustice in the world is the fault of men (according to them) and 3) They over react to EVERYTHING, if I call someone a b***h, it means I think they are acting in a way I find to be inappropriate, aggressive, mean-spirited, and/or extremely selfish, it DOES NOT mean I hate women, it does NOT make me a misogynist. Edit: Also I would like you to explain to me HOW these insults are sexist? Is it simply because they are not gender neutral? 1) I hear feminists complain about it all the time. 2) Strawman 3) Perspective. I have found it to be true that many who accuse others of overreacting simply are ignorant of either the context, etymology, or responsibility that comes along with use of language. For instance, linguistic relativity is the theory that ones' language determines how they perceive reality. If a language is incredibly loaded with sexist speech, it is highly likely that the society whereupon it is spoken will be sexist. Thus, attempts to remove sexist speech are done so not to be politically correct or what have you but rather to rewrite the framework upon which our reality is draped so as to be more conducive to equality and humanity. @EDIT: They are sexist because they delegate a person into their purely reproductive role. You are not a person, nuanced and feeling, you are a ******** object which makes babies. Entirely unacceptable to proliferate in humane discourse, consequently. PS: I'm torn between thinking I sound awesome and pretentious. I'm not trying to do either. Maybe I should stop reading Strunk and White's Elements of Style for fun. 1) I have NEVER IN MY LIFE heard a feminist complain about misandry, and certainly not as often as I hear them complain about misogyny (which is ******** constantly). 2) That's how I understand it, if I have an overly simplistic view of it then please, enlighten me. 3) So basically what you are saying is that intent is irrelevant? What you're saying is that every time anyone uses a word it has the exact same meaning? And you're accusing ME of not knowing enough about language? @@Edit: How is the word "b***h" delegating a person into their purely reproductive role? That's a stretch, a long one. If we lived back in the 15th century, then you may have a point, but not anymore, not by a long shot. @PS You almost always sound pretentious to me, but that's because we have completely different ways of approaching things, and I feel like I'm much more laid back about things. Honestly when I debate with you I think of the typical armchair liberal, someone more likely to just piss me off with all their "holier than thou" BS, even if I agree with them. Which I'm not saying you are, but that is how I perceive the way you act sometimes. And it's not like I hold my perception of you being pretentious against you. I'm rather good at keeping my feelings like that suppressed most of the time, and I'm usually wrong anyway, just thought I'd be honest. 1) Several ED feminists do. We do count for something. Though, mind you, an activist group generally targets what's relevant to their cause. It's why it would be preposterous to have expected the black Civil Rights Movement to appeal for the rights of LGBT Americans, for instance. The issue with feminism being overly focused on women occurs only because there are few masculinists. They should probably be the ones to address misandry. That's fair, correct? 2. While I can't attest to all waves (since I haven't studied all of the waves), I can say that the best characterization of feminism is that gender roles as we know them derive from the patriarchal system under which we still effectively fall. It established the groundwork for our society as we know it, and unless we are willing to deconstruct it to the very foundation, we will only be attacking superficialities. Men are less to blame than the societally held belief that masculine is superior to feminine, and the implications and consequences of that belief. 3. Intent does not change connotation. And connotation is incredibly important in language. Your intent does not change the implications of your choice in diction. It is best if we remove entirely from common parlance words which reflect the patriarchal and sexist origin. @@@Edit: b***h is synonymous with broodmare. Just dealing with dogs instead of horses. Also, b***h is fairly popularly used today to describe an independent woman. Quite a reversal, but just as bad, since it uses a term which described something undesirable (breeder caste) to describe what should be a respected characteristic. @@PS: I think it's the consequence of me trying to use less imprecise language. Everyone I know argues stupid semantics or gets lost in metaphors, missing the metaphorical forest for the trees. That and I've been working on removing emotional outbursts from my posts. Emotion is anathema (NEW FAVORITE WORD OF THE WEEK) to objectivity. I seriously don't talk like this. Partially because I think faster than my mouth can move and all that comes out is verbal diarrhea, but partially because I still speak like a Southerner.
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:56 am
The Living Force TANRailgun The Living Force TANRailgun The Living Force Fun fact: It is sexist. I fail to see how that's a problem with feminism, consequently. The problems are 1) You never hear a feminist complaining about misandry, only misogyny. 2) Every gender based injustice in the world is the fault of men (according to them) and 3) They over react to EVERYTHING, if I call someone a b***h, it means I think they are acting in a way I find to be inappropriate, aggressive, mean-spirited, and/or extremely selfish, it DOES NOT mean I hate women, it does NOT make me a misogynist. Edit: Also I would like you to explain to me HOW these insults are sexist? Is it simply because they are not gender neutral? 1) I hear feminists complain about it all the time. 2) Strawman 3) Perspective. I have found it to be true that many who accuse others of overreacting simply are ignorant of either the context, etymology, or responsibility that comes along with use of language. For instance, linguistic relativity is the theory that ones' language determines how they perceive reality. If a language is incredibly loaded with sexist speech, it is highly likely that the society whereupon it is spoken will be sexist. Thus, attempts to remove sexist speech are done so not to be politically correct or what have you but rather to rewrite the framework upon which our reality is draped so as to be more conducive to equality and humanity. @EDIT: They are sexist because they delegate a person into their purely reproductive role. You are not a person, nuanced and feeling, you are a ******** object which makes babies. Entirely unacceptable to proliferate in humane discourse, consequently. PS: I'm torn between thinking I sound awesome and pretentious. I'm not trying to do either. Maybe I should stop reading Strunk and White's Elements of Style for fun. 1) I have NEVER IN MY LIFE heard a feminist complain about misandry, and certainly not as often as I hear them complain about misogyny (which is ******** constantly). 2) That's how I understand it, if I have an overly simplistic view of it then please, enlighten me. 3) So basically what you are saying is that intent is irrelevant? What you're saying is that every time anyone uses a word it has the exact same meaning? And you're accusing ME of not knowing enough about language? @@Edit: How is the word "b***h" delegating a person into their purely reproductive role? That's a stretch, a long one. If we lived back in the 15th century, then you may have a point, but not anymore, not by a long shot. @PS You almost always sound pretentious to me, but that's because we have completely different ways of approaching things, and I feel like I'm much more laid back about things. Honestly when I debate with you I think of the typical armchair liberal, someone more likely to just piss me off with all their "holier than thou" BS, even if I agree with them. Which I'm not saying you are, but that is how I perceive the way you act sometimes. And it's not like I hold my perception of you being pretentious against you. I'm rather good at keeping my feelings like that suppressed most of the time, and I'm usually wrong anyway, just thought I'd be honest. 1) Several ED feminists do. We do count for something. Though, mind you, an activist group generally targets what's relevant to their cause. It's why it would be preposterous to have expected the black Civil Rights Movement to appeal for the rights of LGBT Americans, for instance. The issue with feminism being overly focused on women occurs only because there are few masculinists. They should probably be the ones to address misandry. That's fair, correct? 2. While I can't attest to all waves (since I haven't studied all of the waves), I can say that the best characterization of feminism is that gender roles as we know them derive from the patriarchal system under which we still effectively fall. It established the groundwork for our society as we know it, and unless we are willing to deconstruct it to the very foundation, we will only be attacking superficialities. Men are less to blame than the societally held belief that masculine is superior to feminine, and the implications and consequences of that belief. 3. Intent does not change connotation. And connotation is incredibly important in language. Your intent does not change the implications of your choice in diction. It is best if we remove entirely from common parlance words which reflect the patriarchal and sexist origin. @@@Edit: b***h is synonymous with broodmare. Just dealing with dogs instead of horses. Also, b***h is fairly popularly used today to describe an independent woman. Quite a reversal, but just as bad, since it uses a term which described something undesirable (breeder caste) to describe what should be a respected characteristic. @@PS: I think it's the consequence of me trying to use less imprecise language. Everyone I know argues stupid semantics or gets lost in metaphors, missing the metaphorical forest for the trees. That and I've been working on removing emotional outbursts from my posts. Emotion is anathema (NEW FAVORITE WORD OF THE WEEK) to objectivity. I seriously don't talk like this. Partially because I think faster than my mouth can move and all that comes out is verbal diarrhea, but partially because I still speak like a Southerner. 1)Right, so instead of focusing on equality, you are focusing on the issues of one gender and leaving the other gender to a group that's almost nonexistent. Real nice equality movement you got there. To tell you the truth THIS is the number one issue I have with feminism, the vast majority of the time men's rights and equality for men don't factor into their equation what so ever. THAT and everything that's wrong in the world, or that they don't agree with can be blamed on some kind of construct that no one but them can see. 2) I don't accept the concept of the patriarchy, I have yet to see any valid evidence for it's existence in the western world. I also fail to see how blaming a patriarchy isn't indirectly saying it's all men's fault. 3) On the contrary, intent is often more important than connotation. You're making an all too common mistake among armchair liberals, focusing on the words, and not the meaning. @@@@Edit: Wrong, your post made me actual have to review the actual history of the word, and never have I seen anywhere it say anything about a broodmare. Female Dog or other canine? Yes. Horse? No. Back in the 15th century the word was a sexist insult, invoking the image of a b***h in heat, and was used to describe lewd women, and even that would not match your description of the word, as it only implies that a woman has sex often or enjoys it, not that it is her only purpose in life.but as I'm sure you know, a LOT can change how a word is used or it's meaning in 700 years. @@@PS: Oh it has nothing to do with your vocabulary, it has more to do with your attitude, like I said, you make me think of an armchair liberal, again, no offense intended.
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:08 am
TANRailgun The Living Force TANRailgun The Living Force TANRailgun The Living Force Fun fact: It is sexist. I fail to see how that's a problem with feminism, consequently. The problems are 1) You never hear a feminist complaining about misandry, only misogyny. 2) Every gender based injustice in the world is the fault of men (according to them) and 3) They over react to EVERYTHING, if I call someone a b***h, it means I think they are acting in a way I find to be inappropriate, aggressive, mean-spirited, and/or extremely selfish, it DOES NOT mean I hate women, it does NOT make me a misogynist. Edit: Also I would like you to explain to me HOW these insults are sexist? Is it simply because they are not gender neutral? 1) I hear feminists complain about it all the time. 2) Strawman 3) Perspective. I have found it to be true that many who accuse others of overreacting simply are ignorant of either the context, etymology, or responsibility that comes along with use of language. For instance, linguistic relativity is the theory that ones' language determines how they perceive reality. If a language is incredibly loaded with sexist speech, it is highly likely that the society whereupon it is spoken will be sexist. Thus, attempts to remove sexist speech are done so not to be politically correct or what have you but rather to rewrite the framework upon which our reality is draped so as to be more conducive to equality and humanity. @EDIT: They are sexist because they delegate a person into their purely reproductive role. You are not a person, nuanced and feeling, you are a ******** object which makes babies. Entirely unacceptable to proliferate in humane discourse, consequently. PS: I'm torn between thinking I sound awesome and pretentious. I'm not trying to do either. Maybe I should stop reading Strunk and White's Elements of Style for fun. 1) I have NEVER IN MY LIFE heard a feminist complain about misandry, and certainly not as often as I hear them complain about misogyny (which is ******** constantly). 2) That's how I understand it, if I have an overly simplistic view of it then please, enlighten me. 3) So basically what you are saying is that intent is irrelevant? What you're saying is that every time anyone uses a word it has the exact same meaning? And you're accusing ME of not knowing enough about language? @@Edit: How is the word "b***h" delegating a person into their purely reproductive role? That's a stretch, a long one. If we lived back in the 15th century, then you may have a point, but not anymore, not by a long shot. @PS You almost always sound pretentious to me, but that's because we have completely different ways of approaching things, and I feel like I'm much more laid back about things. Honestly when I debate with you I think of the typical armchair liberal, someone more likely to just piss me off with all their "holier than thou" BS, even if I agree with them. Which I'm not saying you are, but that is how I perceive the way you act sometimes. And it's not like I hold my perception of you being pretentious against you. I'm rather good at keeping my feelings like that suppressed most of the time, and I'm usually wrong anyway, just thought I'd be honest. 1) Several ED feminists do. We do count for something. Though, mind you, an activist group generally targets what's relevant to their cause. It's why it would be preposterous to have expected the black Civil Rights Movement to appeal for the rights of LGBT Americans, for instance. The issue with feminism being overly focused on women occurs only because there are few masculinists. They should probably be the ones to address misandry. That's fair, correct? 2. While I can't attest to all waves (since I haven't studied all of the waves), I can say that the best characterization of feminism is that gender roles as we know them derive from the patriarchal system under which we still effectively fall. It established the groundwork for our society as we know it, and unless we are willing to deconstruct it to the very foundation, we will only be attacking superficialities. Men are less to blame than the societally held belief that masculine is superior to feminine, and the implications and consequences of that belief. 3. Intent does not change connotation. And connotation is incredibly important in language. Your intent does not change the implications of your choice in diction. It is best if we remove entirely from common parlance words which reflect the patriarchal and sexist origin. @@@Edit: b***h is synonymous with broodmare. Just dealing with dogs instead of horses. Also, b***h is fairly popularly used today to describe an independent woman. Quite a reversal, but just as bad, since it uses a term which described something undesirable (breeder caste) to describe what should be a respected characteristic. @@PS: I think it's the consequence of me trying to use less imprecise language. Everyone I know argues stupid semantics or gets lost in metaphors, missing the metaphorical forest for the trees. That and I've been working on removing emotional outbursts from my posts. Emotion is anathema (NEW FAVORITE WORD OF THE WEEK) to objectivity. I seriously don't talk like this. Partially because I think faster than my mouth can move and all that comes out is verbal diarrhea, but partially because I still speak like a Southerner. 1)Right, so instead of focusing on equality, you are focusing on the issues of one gender and leaving the other gender to a group that's almost nonexistent. Real nice equality movement you got there. To tell you the truth THIS is the number one issue I have with feminism, the vast majority of the time men's rights and equality for men don't factor into their equation what so ever. THAT and everything that's wrong in the world, or that they don't agree with can be blamed on some kind of construct that no one but them can see. 2) I don't accept the concept of the patriarchy, I have yet to see any valid evidence for it's existence in the western world. I also fail to see how blaming a patriarchy isn't indirectly saying it's all men's fault. 3) On the contrary, intent is often more important than connotation. You're making an all too common mistake among armchair liberals, focusing on the words, and not the meaning. @@@@Edit: Wrong, your post made me actual have to review the actual history of the word, and never have I seen anywhere it say anything about a broodmare. Female Dog or other canine? Yes. Horse? No. Back in the 15th century the word was a sexist insult, invoking the image of a b***h in heat, and was used to describe lewd women, and even that would not match your description of the word, as it only implies that a woman has sex often or enjoys it, not that it is her only purpose in life.but as I'm sure you know, a LOT can change how a word is used or it's meaning in 700 years. @@@PS: Oh it has nothing to do with your vocabulary, it has more to do with your attitude, like I said, you make me think of an armchair liberal, again, no offense intended. 1) How is it fair to expect women to front a women's rights movement and a men's rights movement? In fact, the argument you just gave often borders on sexist entitlement. Women should do all of the work. Shiny. 2) Well, I honestly don't believe in gravity, so I guess pot kettle. emotion_awesome 3) Your meaning is irrelevant to the fact that words actually have meaning outside of what you want them to mean. Suffice it to say that the listener's perceptions do matter just as much as the speaker, though we as a people often believe that whoever's talking the loudest is the most right. @EDIT. No, you misunderstood. A broodmare is a female horse for breeding. A b***h is a female dog, ostensibly for breeding. They are synonymous, but not on the species level. And nothing about the time lapse changes the fact that the word is often leveled at women who are independent-minded. Bitches because they don't give men the respect they deserve. That is also why b***h is more derogatory when used against a man. Same with p***y. Using a female slur against a man equates him with the feminine, the inferior. It's similarly why tomboys are socially acceptable but the reverse absolutely is not. It's cute when a girl wants to be boyish. SOCIETAL ******** CATASTROPHE for the opposite. @PS: Armchair liberal denotes a person with liberal or progressive beliefs but does nothing to see them come to pass. As in, a left-wing slacktivist, which I definitely am not. I'm not exactly sure what you mean. I'm leaning towards armchair philosopher, but left wing flavor. And my attitude as of late has been parts depression and parts sheer disenfranchisement with vast sectors of the population. And fatigue. My writing's never been better though. Got that silver lining, and I'm going to make it into a nice dress.
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:57 am
The Living Force TANRailgun The Living Force TANRailgun The Living Force 1) I hear feminists complain about it all the time. 2) Strawman 3) Perspective. I have found it to be true that many who accuse others of overreacting simply are ignorant of either the context, etymology, or responsibility that comes along with use of language. For instance, linguistic relativity is the theory that ones' language determines how they perceive reality. If a language is incredibly loaded with sexist speech, it is highly likely that the society whereupon it is spoken will be sexist. Thus, attempts to remove sexist speech are done so not to be politically correct or what have you but rather to rewrite the framework upon which our reality is draped so as to be more conducive to equality and humanity. @EDIT: They are sexist because they delegate a person into their purely reproductive role. You are not a person, nuanced and feeling, you are a ******** object which makes babies. Entirely unacceptable to proliferate in humane discourse, consequently. PS: I'm torn between thinking I sound awesome and pretentious. I'm not trying to do either. Maybe I should stop reading Strunk and White's Elements of Style for fun. 1) I have NEVER IN MY LIFE heard a feminist complain about misandry, and certainly not as often as I hear them complain about misogyny (which is ******** constantly). 2) That's how I understand it, if I have an overly simplistic view of it then please, enlighten me. 3) So basically what you are saying is that intent is irrelevant? What you're saying is that every time anyone uses a word it has the exact same meaning? And you're accusing ME of not knowing enough about language? @@Edit: How is the word "b***h" delegating a person into their purely reproductive role? That's a stretch, a long one. If we lived back in the 15th century, then you may have a point, but not anymore, not by a long shot. @PS You almost always sound pretentious to me, but that's because we have completely different ways of approaching things, and I feel like I'm much more laid back about things. Honestly when I debate with you I think of the typical armchair liberal, someone more likely to just piss me off with all their "holier than thou" BS, even if I agree with them. Which I'm not saying you are, but that is how I perceive the way you act sometimes. And it's not like I hold my perception of you being pretentious against you. I'm rather good at keeping my feelings like that suppressed most of the time, and I'm usually wrong anyway, just thought I'd be honest. 1) Several ED feminists do. We do count for something. Though, mind you, an activist group generally targets what's relevant to their cause. It's why it would be preposterous to have expected the black Civil Rights Movement to appeal for the rights of LGBT Americans, for instance. The issue with feminism being overly focused on women occurs only because there are few masculinists. They should probably be the ones to address misandry. That's fair, correct? 2. While I can't attest to all waves (since I haven't studied all of the waves), I can say that the best characterization of feminism is that gender roles as we know them derive from the patriarchal system under which we still effectively fall. It established the groundwork for our society as we know it, and unless we are willing to deconstruct it to the very foundation, we will only be attacking superficialities. Men are less to blame than the societally held belief that masculine is superior to feminine, and the implications and consequences of that belief. 3. Intent does not change connotation. And connotation is incredibly important in language. Your intent does not change the implications of your choice in diction. It is best if we remove entirely from common parlance words which reflect the patriarchal and sexist origin. @@@Edit: b***h is synonymous with broodmare. Just dealing with dogs instead of horses. Also, b***h is fairly popularly used today to describe an independent woman. Quite a reversal, but just as bad, since it uses a term which described something undesirable (breeder caste) to describe what should be a respected characteristic. @@PS: I think it's the consequence of me trying to use less imprecise language. Everyone I know argues stupid semantics or gets lost in metaphors, missing the metaphorical forest for the trees. That and I've been working on removing emotional outbursts from my posts. Emotion is anathema (NEW FAVORITE WORD OF THE WEEK) to objectivity. I seriously don't talk like this. Partially because I think faster than my mouth can move and all that comes out is verbal diarrhea, but partially because I still speak like a Southerner. 1)Right, so instead of focusing on equality, you are focusing on the issues of one gender and leaving the other gender to a group that's almost nonexistent. Real nice equality movement you got there. To tell you the truth THIS is the number one issue I have with feminism, the vast majority of the time men's rights and equality for men don't factor into their equation what so ever. THAT and everything that's wrong in the world, or that they don't agree with can be blamed on some kind of construct that no one but them can see. 2) I don't accept the concept of the patriarchy, I have yet to see any valid evidence for it's existence in the western world. I also fail to see how blaming a patriarchy isn't indirectly saying it's all men's fault. 3) On the contrary, intent is often more important than connotation. You're making an all too common mistake among armchair liberals, focusing on the words, and not the meaning. @@@@Edit: Wrong, your post made me actual have to review the actual history of the word, and never have I seen anywhere it say anything about a broodmare. Female Dog or other canine? Yes. Horse? No. Back in the 15th century the word was a sexist insult, invoking the image of a b***h in heat, and was used to describe lewd women, and even that would not match your description of the word, as it only implies that a woman has sex often or enjoys it, not that it is her only purpose in life.but as I'm sure you know, a LOT can change how a word is used or it's meaning in 700 years. @@@PS: Oh it has nothing to do with your vocabulary, it has more to do with your attitude, like I said, you make me think of an armchair liberal, again, no offense intended. 1) How is it fair to expect women to front a women's rights movement and a men's rights movement? In fact, the argument you just gave often borders on sexist entitlement. Women should do all of the work. Shiny. 2) Well, I honestly don't believe in gravity, so I guess pot kettle. emotion_awesome 3) Your meaning is irrelevant to the fact that words actually have meaning outside of what you want them to mean. Suffice it to say that the listener's perceptions do matter just as much as the speaker, though we as a people often believe that whoever's talking the loudest is the most right. @EDIT. No, you misunderstood. A broodmare is a female horse for breeding. A b***h is a female dog, ostensibly for breeding. They are synonymous, but not on the species level. And nothing about the time lapse changes the fact that the word is often leveled at women who are independent-minded. Bitches because they don't give men the respect they deserve. That is also why b***h is more derogatory when used against a man. Same with p***y. Using a female slur against a man equates him with the feminine, the inferior. It's similarly why tomboys are socially acceptable but the reverse absolutely is not. It's cute when a girl wants to be boyish. SOCIETAL ******** CATASTROPHE for the opposite. @PS: Armchair liberal denotes a person with liberal or progressive beliefs but does nothing to see them come to pass. As in, a left-wing slacktivist, which I definitely am not. I'm not exactly sure what you mean. I'm leaning towards armchair philosopher, but left wing flavor. And my attitude as of late has been parts depression and parts sheer disenfranchisement with vast sectors of the population. And fatigue. My writing's never been better though. Got that silver lining, and I'm going to make it into a nice dress. 1) So the feminist movement is composed exclusively of females? And no where did I say women should do all the work, I simply said that if your going to fight for social equality, then fight for social equality, not just the interests of one group. 2) Except the evidence for gravity is obvious, the evidence for patriarchy in contemporary western society is not. 3) The point of language is to express meaning, what word is used is immaterial so long as the meaning is conveyed. If I call a woman who is obviously quite aggressive and selfish a b***h, you do not assume I mean she is a female dog now do you? No you assume I mean that she is aggressive and selfish, and that I was trying to be insulting. @Edit: 1) Why is it so hard for you to admit when you ******** up? The word's meaning has changed when used as an insult, which, again, comes down to intent. 2) Bull s**t, I have often heard a woman described as a man in order to point out a flaw or defect. (For example "man hands"). And the average male does not equate feminine with inferior, I know I don't, and yet if someone's acting like a b***h, I will call them a b***h. PS: I know what it means, but I was trying to invoke the imagery rather than actually say something that could be insulting, like"git", or "wanker" or "whiner" or "kill joy" or a "precious, pompous, petulant, pretentious, pugnacious, parrot"
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:54 am
TANRailgun The Living Force TANRailgun The Living Force TANRailgun The Living Force 1) I hear feminists complain about it all the time. 2) Strawman 3) Perspective. I have found it to be true that many who accuse others of overreacting simply are ignorant of either the context, etymology, or responsibility that comes along with use of language. For instance, linguistic relativity is the theory that ones' language determines how they perceive reality. If a language is incredibly loaded with sexist speech, it is highly likely that the society whereupon it is spoken will be sexist. Thus, attempts to remove sexist speech are done so not to be politically correct or what have you but rather to rewrite the framework upon which our reality is draped so as to be more conducive to equality and humanity. @EDIT: They are sexist because they delegate a person into their purely reproductive role. You are not a person, nuanced and feeling, you are a ******** object which makes babies. Entirely unacceptable to proliferate in humane discourse, consequently. PS: I'm torn between thinking I sound awesome and pretentious. I'm not trying to do either. Maybe I should stop reading Strunk and White's Elements of Style for fun. 1) I have NEVER IN MY LIFE heard a feminist complain about misandry, and certainly not as often as I hear them complain about misogyny (which is ******** constantly). 2) That's how I understand it, if I have an overly simplistic view of it then please, enlighten me. 3) So basically what you are saying is that intent is irrelevant? What you're saying is that every time anyone uses a word it has the exact same meaning? And you're accusing ME of not knowing enough about language? @@Edit: How is the word "b***h" delegating a person into their purely reproductive role? That's a stretch, a long one. If we lived back in the 15th century, then you may have a point, but not anymore, not by a long shot. @PS You almost always sound pretentious to me, but that's because we have completely different ways of approaching things, and I feel like I'm much more laid back about things. Honestly when I debate with you I think of the typical armchair liberal, someone more likely to just piss me off with all their "holier than thou" BS, even if I agree with them. Which I'm not saying you are, but that is how I perceive the way you act sometimes. And it's not like I hold my perception of you being pretentious against you. I'm rather good at keeping my feelings like that suppressed most of the time, and I'm usually wrong anyway, just thought I'd be honest. 1) Several ED feminists do. We do count for something. Though, mind you, an activist group generally targets what's relevant to their cause. It's why it would be preposterous to have expected the black Civil Rights Movement to appeal for the rights of LGBT Americans, for instance. The issue with feminism being overly focused on women occurs only because there are few masculinists. They should probably be the ones to address misandry. That's fair, correct? 2. While I can't attest to all waves (since I haven't studied all of the waves), I can say that the best characterization of feminism is that gender roles as we know them derive from the patriarchal system under which we still effectively fall. It established the groundwork for our society as we know it, and unless we are willing to deconstruct it to the very foundation, we will only be attacking superficialities. Men are less to blame than the societally held belief that masculine is superior to feminine, and the implications and consequences of that belief. 3. Intent does not change connotation. And connotation is incredibly important in language. Your intent does not change the implications of your choice in diction. It is best if we remove entirely from common parlance words which reflect the patriarchal and sexist origin. @@@Edit: b***h is synonymous with broodmare. Just dealing with dogs instead of horses. Also, b***h is fairly popularly used today to describe an independent woman. Quite a reversal, but just as bad, since it uses a term which described something undesirable (breeder caste) to describe what should be a respected characteristic. @@PS: I think it's the consequence of me trying to use less imprecise language. Everyone I know argues stupid semantics or gets lost in metaphors, missing the metaphorical forest for the trees. That and I've been working on removing emotional outbursts from my posts. Emotion is anathema (NEW FAVORITE WORD OF THE WEEK) to objectivity. I seriously don't talk like this. Partially because I think faster than my mouth can move and all that comes out is verbal diarrhea, but partially because I still speak like a Southerner. 1)Right, so instead of focusing on equality, you are focusing on the issues of one gender and leaving the other gender to a group that's almost nonexistent. Real nice equality movement you got there. To tell you the truth THIS is the number one issue I have with feminism, the vast majority of the time men's rights and equality for men don't factor into their equation what so ever. THAT and everything that's wrong in the world, or that they don't agree with can be blamed on some kind of construct that no one but them can see. 2) I don't accept the concept of the patriarchy, I have yet to see any valid evidence for it's existence in the western world. I also fail to see how blaming a patriarchy isn't indirectly saying it's all men's fault. 3) On the contrary, intent is often more important than connotation. You're making an all too common mistake among armchair liberals, focusing on the words, and not the meaning. @@@@Edit: Wrong, your post made me actual have to review the actual history of the word, and never have I seen anywhere it say anything about a broodmare. Female Dog or other canine? Yes. Horse? No. Back in the 15th century the word was a sexist insult, invoking the image of a b***h in heat, and was used to describe lewd women, and even that would not match your description of the word, as it only implies that a woman has sex often or enjoys it, not that it is her only purpose in life.but as I'm sure you know, a LOT can change how a word is used or it's meaning in 700 years. @@@PS: Oh it has nothing to do with your vocabulary, it has more to do with your attitude, like I said, you make me think of an armchair liberal, again, no offense intended. 1) How is it fair to expect women to front a women's rights movement and a men's rights movement? In fact, the argument you just gave often borders on sexist entitlement. Women should do all of the work. Shiny. 2) Well, I honestly don't believe in gravity, so I guess pot kettle. emotion_awesome 3) Your meaning is irrelevant to the fact that words actually have meaning outside of what you want them to mean. Suffice it to say that the listener's perceptions do matter just as much as the speaker, though we as a people often believe that whoever's talking the loudest is the most right. @EDIT. No, you misunderstood. A broodmare is a female horse for breeding. A b***h is a female dog, ostensibly for breeding. They are synonymous, but not on the species level. And nothing about the time lapse changes the fact that the word is often leveled at women who are independent-minded. Bitches because they don't give men the respect they deserve. That is also why b***h is more derogatory when used against a man. Same with p***y. Using a female slur against a man equates him with the feminine, the inferior. It's similarly why tomboys are socially acceptable but the reverse absolutely is not. It's cute when a girl wants to be boyish. SOCIETAL ******** CATASTROPHE for the opposite. @PS: Armchair liberal denotes a person with liberal or progressive beliefs but does nothing to see them come to pass. As in, a left-wing slacktivist, which I definitely am not. I'm not exactly sure what you mean. I'm leaning towards armchair philosopher, but left wing flavor. And my attitude as of late has been parts depression and parts sheer disenfranchisement with vast sectors of the population. And fatigue. My writing's never been better though. Got that silver lining, and I'm going to make it into a nice dress. 1) So the feminist movement is composed exclusively of females? And no where did I say women should do all the work, I simply said that if your going to fight for social equality, then fight for social equality, not just the interests of one group. 2) Except the evidence for gravity is obvious, the evidence for patriarchy in contemporary western society is not. 3) The point of language is to express meaning, what word is used is immaterial so long as the meaning is conveyed. If I call a woman who is obviously quite aggressive and selfish a b***h, you do not assume I mean she is a female dog now do you? No you assume I mean that she is aggressive and selfish, and that I was trying to be insulting. @Edit: 1) Why is it so hard for you to admit when you ******** up? The word's meaning has changed when used as an insult, which, again, comes down to intent. 2) Bull s**t, I have often heard a woman described as a man in order to point out a flaw or defect. (For example "man hands"). And the average male does not equate feminine with inferior, I know I don't, and yet if someone's acting like a b***h, I will call them a b***h. PS: I know what it means, but I was trying to invoke the imagery rather than actually say something that could be insulting, like"git", or "wanker" or "whiner" or "kill joy" or a "precious, pompous, petulant, pretentious, pugnacious, parrot" 1) In large part. Which is understandable, since the people most likely to know what women go through are women. And the Civil Rights Movement was fighting for social equality and they were selective. It's called specialization, and it is preferable not to be a jack of all trades and master of none. And with feminism, it is especially egregious since most feminists are women by a substantial margin. And feminists support things that would benefit men and women, but men need to get into the equality game in a large part, too, and feminists absolutely should not be held responsible when they do not. 2) Only if you've got blinders on. I could mention examples until the end of everything and I'm not confident that you'd believe me. 3) Yes, and meaning is not determined by intent. Words have meaning outside of a person's intent and in fact determine the reason they use the word. b***h has long been used as a derogatory word to describe a detestable woman. How about using a gender neutral insult? @Edit: I didn't ******** up. I said exactly what I meant to say. I could have been clearer, but I did not ******** up. And please don't try and bring up something related to a woman's appearance, since a woman's attractiveness is frequently a huge part of her worth in this society, and that means that having a less beautiful trait is bad, hence man hands. Also, I said to be more masculine, so there's that. And the average male does equate the feminine with inferior, otherwise p***y would not be an insult describing a weak man. But I get the feeling we're going to do this all day because you view word usage in a vacuum and that means this will go everywhere except where it needs to go. @PS: Clarity is always preferable. But seriously, if you took things as seriously as I do (which is, in my opinion, a good thing) then you might be a "kill joy," too. But don't ******** call me a whiner. Call me a whiner when women don't make 77 cents to a man's dollar or aren't victims of socially sanctioned sexual harassment and are told that they're being too sensitive or when men have eating disorders caused by society equating their worth with their appearance. Seriously, the worst thing you can call a feminist (or any activist supporting equality beyond the superficial crap that any "normal" person (read: privileged white male heterosexual cisgendered person) supports is a whiner because it completely devalues eeeeeeeeeeverything they believe in. This is my problem with people who think they're socially progressive but don't actually have the context within which to actually do so. It makes it easy to sound progressive, but it's why people who are against racism make racist jokes (and say dumb s**t like white people are the most discriminated against group in the country) or why people who are against sexism still support gender roles and gendertyping. Consequently, I am done with this discussion.
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:48 pm
The Living Force TANRailgun The Living Force TANRailgun The Living Force 1) Several ED feminists do. We do count for something. Though, mind you, an activist group generally targets what's relevant to their cause. It's why it would be preposterous to have expected the black Civil Rights Movement to appeal for the rights of LGBT Americans, for instance. The issue with feminism being overly focused on women occurs only because there are few masculinists. They should probably be the ones to address misandry. That's fair, correct? 2. While I can't attest to all waves (since I haven't studied all of the waves), I can say that the best characterization of feminism is that gender roles as we know them derive from the patriarchal system under which we still effectively fall. It established the groundwork for our society as we know it, and unless we are willing to deconstruct it to the very foundation, we will only be attacking superficialities. Men are less to blame than the societally held belief that masculine is superior to feminine, and the implications and consequences of that belief. 3. Intent does not change connotation. And connotation is incredibly important in language. Your intent does not change the implications of your choice in diction. It is best if we remove entirely from common parlance words which reflect the patriarchal and sexist origin. @@@Edit: b***h is synonymous with broodmare. Just dealing with dogs instead of horses. Also, b***h is fairly popularly used today to describe an independent woman. Quite a reversal, but just as bad, since it uses a term which described something undesirable (breeder caste) to describe what should be a respected characteristic. @@PS: I think it's the consequence of me trying to use less imprecise language. Everyone I know argues stupid semantics or gets lost in metaphors, missing the metaphorical forest for the trees. That and I've been working on removing emotional outbursts from my posts. Emotion is anathema (NEW FAVORITE WORD OF THE WEEK) to objectivity. I seriously don't talk like this. Partially because I think faster than my mouth can move and all that comes out is verbal diarrhea, but partially because I still speak like a Southerner. 1)Right, so instead of focusing on equality, you are focusing on the issues of one gender and leaving the other gender to a group that's almost nonexistent. Real nice equality movement you got there. To tell you the truth THIS is the number one issue I have with feminism, the vast majority of the time men's rights and equality for men don't factor into their equation what so ever. THAT and everything that's wrong in the world, or that they don't agree with can be blamed on some kind of construct that no one but them can see. 2) I don't accept the concept of the patriarchy, I have yet to see any valid evidence for it's existence in the western world. I also fail to see how blaming a patriarchy isn't indirectly saying it's all men's fault. 3) On the contrary, intent is often more important than connotation. You're making an all too common mistake among armchair liberals, focusing on the words, and not the meaning. @@@@Edit: Wrong, your post made me actual have to review the actual history of the word, and never have I seen anywhere it say anything about a broodmare. Female Dog or other canine? Yes. Horse? No. Back in the 15th century the word was a sexist insult, invoking the image of a b***h in heat, and was used to describe lewd women, and even that would not match your description of the word, as it only implies that a woman has sex often or enjoys it, not that it is her only purpose in life.but as I'm sure you know, a LOT can change how a word is used or it's meaning in 700 years. @@@PS: Oh it has nothing to do with your vocabulary, it has more to do with your attitude, like I said, you make me think of an armchair liberal, again, no offense intended. 1) How is it fair to expect women to front a women's rights movement and a men's rights movement? In fact, the argument you just gave often borders on sexist entitlement. Women should do all of the work. Shiny. 2) Well, I honestly don't believe in gravity, so I guess pot kettle. emotion_awesome 3) Your meaning is irrelevant to the fact that words actually have meaning outside of what you want them to mean. Suffice it to say that the listener's perceptions do matter just as much as the speaker, though we as a people often believe that whoever's talking the loudest is the most right. @EDIT. No, you misunderstood. A broodmare is a female horse for breeding. A b***h is a female dog, ostensibly for breeding. They are synonymous, but not on the species level. And nothing about the time lapse changes the fact that the word is often leveled at women who are independent-minded. Bitches because they don't give men the respect they deserve. That is also why b***h is more derogatory when used against a man. Same with p***y. Using a female slur against a man equates him with the feminine, the inferior. It's similarly why tomboys are socially acceptable but the reverse absolutely is not. It's cute when a girl wants to be boyish. SOCIETAL ******** CATASTROPHE for the opposite. @PS: Armchair liberal denotes a person with liberal or progressive beliefs but does nothing to see them come to pass. As in, a left-wing slacktivist, which I definitely am not. I'm not exactly sure what you mean. I'm leaning towards armchair philosopher, but left wing flavor. And my attitude as of late has been parts depression and parts sheer disenfranchisement with vast sectors of the population. And fatigue. My writing's never been better though. Got that silver lining, and I'm going to make it into a nice dress. 1) So the feminist movement is composed exclusively of females? And no where did I say women should do all the work, I simply said that if your going to fight for social equality, then fight for social equality, not just the interests of one group. 2) Except the evidence for gravity is obvious, the evidence for patriarchy in contemporary western society is not. 3) The point of language is to express meaning, what word is used is immaterial so long as the meaning is conveyed. If I call a woman who is obviously quite aggressive and selfish a b***h, you do not assume I mean she is a female dog now do you? No you assume I mean that she is aggressive and selfish, and that I was trying to be insulting. @Edit: 1) Why is it so hard for you to admit when you ******** up? The word's meaning has changed when used as an insult, which, again, comes down to intent. 2) Bull s**t, I have often heard a woman described as a man in order to point out a flaw or defect. (For example "man hands"). And the average male does not equate feminine with inferior, I know I don't, and yet if someone's acting like a b***h, I will call them a b***h. PS: I know what it means, but I was trying to invoke the imagery rather than actually say something that could be insulting, like"git", or "wanker" or "whiner" or "kill joy" or a "precious, pompous, petulant, pretentious, pugnacious, parrot" 1) In large part. Which is understandable, since the people most likely to know what women go through are women. And the Civil Rights Movement was fighting for social equality and they were selective. It's called specialization, and it is preferable not to be a jack of all trades and master of none. And with feminism, it is especially egregious since most feminists are women by a substantial margin. And feminists support things that would benefit men and women, but men need to get into the equality game in a large part, too, and feminists absolutely should not be held responsible when they do not. 2) Only if you've got blinders on. I could mention examples until the end of everything and I'm not confident that you'd believe me. 3) Yes, and meaning is not determined by intent. Words have meaning outside of a person's intent and in fact determine the reason they use the word. b***h has long been used as a derogatory word to describe a detestable woman. How about using a gender neutral insult? @Edit: I didn't ******** up. I said exactly what I meant to say. I could have been clearer, but I did not ******** up. And please don't try and bring up something related to a woman's appearance, since a woman's attractiveness is frequently a huge part of her worth in this society, and that means that having a less beautiful trait is bad, hence man hands. Also, I said to be more masculine, so there's that. And the average male does equate the feminine with inferior, otherwise p***y would not be an insult describing a weak man. But I get the feeling we're going to do this all day because you view word usage in a vacuum and that means this will go everywhere except where it needs to go. @PS: Clarity is always preferable. But seriously, if you took things as seriously as I do (which is, in my opinion, a good thing) then you might be a "kill joy," too. But don't ******** call me a whiner. Call me a whiner when women don't make 77 cents to a man's dollar or aren't victims of socially sanctioned sexual harassment and are told that they're being too sensitive or when men have eating disorders caused by society equating their worth with their appearance. Seriously, the worst thing you can call a feminist (or any activist supporting equality beyond the superficial crap that any "normal" person (read: privileged white male heterosexual cisgendered person) supports is a whiner because it completely devalues eeeeeeeeeeverything they believe in. This is my problem with people who think they're socially progressive but don't actually have the context within which to actually do so. It makes it easy to sound progressive, but it's why people who are against racism make racist jokes (and say dumb s**t like white people are the most discriminated against group in the country) or why people who are against sexism still support gender roles and gendertyping. Consequently, I am done with this discussion.Since you have expressed a desire to drop out of this conversation, I will only respond to what I assume is what made you mad. I think one of your faults is that you automatically assume that you are correct, and therefore anyone who opposes you is incorrect and must be corrected. Understand then, that by my perspective the majority of the issues that you have brought up, which I have contested, I perceive as minor gripes, which you have made seem larger than they need to be. For example: The Derpy issue, I didn't think it was a big deal, yet I was able to see and attempted to understand where you were coming from, as far as i could tell, you made no such attempt. You were already convinced you were right, and (so it seemed to me) refused any attempt on my part at compromise or reconciliation. Anyway, getting back to the point, IMO you take things entirely too seriously, and as a result you have given yourself blinders that filter out any opinion that you do not hold your self, your arguments are nearly all ones I have heard before, and I have yet to hear anything out of you that genuinely surprised or particularly interested me. As a result I find debating with you rather boring, as I go into it knowing that I will hear arguments I have already heard, and that I will be unable to change your mind, which in turn places me at an immediate disadvantage. In other words, I would call you a whiner (if I was not conscious of your feelings) because you blow things out of proportion consistently (from my perspective), you are somewhat of a zealot. PS: If that maybe came off a little...weird, it's because I have been drinking...mother's wedding was today...3rd step-dad...open bar...lowered inhibitions...all that jazz.
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