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I have no comment about the Shadow Dragon since I have no DS nor do I have the best equipment (aka: terrible netbook) to play on ROM. However, I will comment about the reception.

To be quite honest, I say it's a bit of both. It's unfair, but it's also on the money. I believe it's more toward the business and marketing of trying to sell out the products by the amount of money they had than economy. Sure the USA is having some money issue in the economy. However, I don't believe that the reception of buying/selling didn't reach the criteria of what the business expects has anything to do with future games. There are some successful video games that weren't released to the west just as the New Mystery of Fire Emblem.

Take Dynasty Warriors for example. That video game is successful to the west and fun to play with. However, despite being successful in the west, there are some games that aren't released to the west too. There was a new Dynasty Warriors 6 for PSP, but it's only released to the east and not west.

So if the fans want the game to come to the west, they have two options. One is to import the game from the country. Sure it will cost more money for shipping and handling, but hey, it didn't prevent them from playing. Another is to make a petition, asking for the game to come to USA. Dunno if you want to do the petition or not, but at least it motivate the gamers to take a step.

As for will it effect the series' success? To be frank, it may effect the business and marketing. However, as I stated before, it doesn't stop the gamers to play the series. There are ways for them to play the game. Take FE 1 to 6. We don't have those series in the west, but we manage to get them through importing the games through the internet. Same goes with FE7 to FE11 if we don't have money to afford it.

I think it was rather sad how Fire Emblem curiousity was piqued when Roy and Marth were those unknown characters in Melee, but you didn't get to see either in the States (until Marth's Shadow Dragon remake, which is understandable unlike FE 6 not being translated).

But anyway, a remake is still a remake. As a remake of an older game, it didn't offer much, but it's inherently Fire Emblem. I just can't compare it to any of the others I've played is all...to this day, I forget story aspects (I don't even remember the kingdoms) and misplace characters because I just couldn't find it in me to care. The gameplay was okay, but I don't play just for the game (odd as that sounds, story is a big factor).

I think the dislike is exaggerated, but there is justified dislike nonetheless. There are also things to like, though.

Things I disliked about the game: No support system at all let alone convos (But the original didn't have these either, so it's not like we're missing out, though adding them would have been a nice update, when doing a remake), being forced to kill off characters in order to get other characters, uncreative and redundant means of achieving victory, horrifically blinding and limited character OA (you can have your opinion on the OA, but I cannot even look at these without making a derpface), and most of all class changing.

Things I liked about the game: It still kept many of the core elements that make FE what it is, such as the items, weapon triangle and promotions, like Sue said. Though I've heard people b***h about them (and it's really, really annoying when they do and I wish they'd just shut their stupid face holes), the mugs are actually pretty nice and updated. And best of all, they gave Marth pants.

The story itself suffers from remake syndrome. It's really a good story, because it's FE's very first one, but it's nothing new anymore. This is supposed to be not just a remake, but a brand new game in general that introduces the west to who Marth actually is. And I think FE fans who were introduced this way just kind of went "Huh... well, that's nice, back to FE7"

On the other hand, this may have been the very first FE game for some people. That said, I can see why people and sites and other things would consider it a good game. It is FE, after all. But even with that, I look at this game and I can't help but think that the graphics and the animation and maybe everything visually could have been better.

As for how it will affect the west... I don't think it will have nearly as much of an affect as FE13 has the potential to if it comes to us. FE11 is pretty bad in comparison to the other games, but it still has some quality. And it's really only previous FE fans that look on it negatively. And not bringing anymore games to the west because of FE11 would be a stupid move, but I think that may be self-explanatory.

Sorry about the poll. I noticed after I had posted it. I even lessened the other options in severity for that exact reason.

In regard to the ratings. I know that 20% is a difference, and me talking about being on the upper part of the spectrum was some of my idealism regarding video game scores getting through, regarding what I want a ten point scale to be. I mainly wanted to post reviewer scores and user scores in conjunction with one another, and I didn't think at all to post the other FE scores. And the scores for other games Leaf mentioned are ones I didn't even know about.

In terms of game story, I'm actually not bothered by Shadow Dragon's simplicity. I like simple stories (Illustrated by my similarly large adoration for the Dragon Quest Series, and I can talk forever about that), and while the story at hand isn't high art, it doesn't need to be, and it gets the job done. Though it does feel a bit dated at times, I won't lie. There are older plots out there that have aged better. I do care about story in my Fire Emblem games, as they move the game along and add flavor and pacing to the whole affair. And I think a lot of the stories have been very good. Not all of them, but a fair number of them. And I do respect the stories of the Akaneia games. Heck, one of my favorite characters in the series is form those games, and I chose her as my FEF character.

I haven't played FE3 all the way through so I can't talk too much about the plot of that game in particular, but I know how it feels to cringe at an FE plot. I've read the script, though, and it does have its' problems, ham-handed sequel escalation, and cliche and phoned in plot threads. And no one detests having their intelligence insulted as much as I do. With that said, from what I see at the moment, I think it does have an okay core idea (better than FE10's, at least). The kind of thing a remake could potentially buff and make more prominent. Or not. Why I lament that we didn't get New Mystery is because I wanted to see what they would do with it. Mystery of the Emblem, I hear, is the most beloved game in the series in Japan. With the whole assassin guild thing, My Unit's presence to bounce things off of, base conversations, and whatnot, would there be new plot threads and expansion in place of rehash? Or would the rehash still be there? Or will the new things feel disconnected and be even worse? There is a lot to potentially work with. Again, not expecting high art, but I'd like to know what there is. I want to know the extent to which the game was remade, and when the translation patch comes out, you bet I'll be all over it.

I wonder these things. It's what I do. Perhaps I'm too optimistic, but I enjoy it.

Back to Shadow Dragon, the in game graphics for Shadow Dragon don't bother me, and I actually quite like the in game portraits, though they took some warming up to. The OA's however, really bother me, as I know I've said before. New Mystery's is far superior.

The gameplay is serviceable, but I really did lament the lack of additions from newer FE games, such as rescuing, shoving, and above all, chapter variety, in line with what Sue said. Of course, not all of the newer add-ons were gone, I know that. Class changing was an interesting idea, but I found it nullified the characters' individuality as a strategy point somewhat. But I did miss what was gone, and for me that's what hurts the game the most. It wasn't a deal breaker for me, though.

And I personally don't think for a minute that FE11's reception will halt the series in the west. I know that FE13 has been confirmed for a European release (I've been talking about it all over the place on dA, actually), and I am eagerly awaiting an NA release date. I brought it up because I had heard those connections be made, and wanted to know what folks had to say on them.

Also:



I never thought of it that way. While a game like New Mystery would be new to players in the states who never played FE3, it is still a remake, and held back by being such in many ways, as opposed to the many things a brand new FE game could be. And since it is a new game to a lot of western players, another low score would probably look bad and make a lot of fans even more dubious of where the series is going, potentially hurting it more than SHadow Dragon's low scores alone. That's a really good point.

There's more to respond to. I will.

It's fine; don't worry about the poll, I was just pulling your leg. :B

After going through people's replies, and the poll, I can believe that the hate is exaggerated to some extent and find solecist in that. However, I somewhat agree with the thread's opening quote to some extent, albeit not as extreme as it's put in the original quotation.

Allow me to explain. Although this game is badly received (in context to the other NA FE games), it isn't 100% the fanbase's fault. While that animosity is still there, one also has to factor in that remakes are not for everyone out there. There's a reason why Dragon Warrior's* last remake for a mainstream gaming device was over a decade ago: games age no matter how well they are in the time of the original.

* In the context of Dragon Warrior on a single cartridge, I'm not counting the Wii remake because there are six games on that one, and that would be quantity vs. quality in that case.

For FE11, if they just threw it out and didn't change anything, we could see how badly it aged since 1990. Thankfully, they did add things to it to appeal to the 21st century, but much like adding pots and seeds of stat increasing to Dragon Warrior, it just isn't enough to compare it to modern gaming. On a final note of Dragon Warrior, I'm 100% sure that they could remake it with VIII graphics, much like how FE11 was remade with DS graphics, and it still wouldn't be able to 10/10 GameFAQs, that's just how remakes are, not the player's fault, but the age of the game if anything.

So in a way, it isn't entirely the fanbase's fault of not liking it, remaking a game from two decades ago is almost silly in a way if the producer expects it to do as well as a 21st century game with a 21st century plot. Not that I'm against remakes or anything, I just don't think that they should be expected from their maker to be as successful as an original title. Such being the case of Romancing SaGa and FE11, where further remakes were pulled from NA markets because they didn't do as well as the last original title.

Concerning the artwork, I know this is a dogfight of opinions, but I might as well share mine. I actually adored the artwork of FE11 more than even the Jugdral series artwork (the Jugdral series is my favourite series in all of FE), the amount of detail portrayed in the art is breathtaking. One example, and my favourite one would be Minerva's art. Looking at the shading in her art, it's understandable to why I love FE11 art so much. Like I said, it boils down to opinion, but because I am a sucker for detail, reality (as opposed to "cartoon" for a lack of a better word) and shading in art, FE11's highly appeals to me. Just don't ask about the scene art, there I can agree with being meh, the character art however, are some of the best character art in FE IMO.

Also, in reply to Tiki's post, I think she made some great points that I have not factored into my original post about new content being able to improve FE12 such as the assassins and MU. I feel now that I have factored those concepts into my belief, I feel that the plot could have been improved to be less cringe worthy. However, FE12 is still a remake of an old game, and because it is, I know that it wouldn't do as great as original titles, and that alone would be risking the reputation of the series in North America as I pointed out in my first post.

Really? Because IMO, it looks like the artists just cropped out the trims and detail and layered it with the texture background. I just couldn't see the artist spent so many hours detailing the belts, weapons, and trims with those type of designs... >>;

Big ol' art post, go! And to preface this, people are allowed to like shadow dragon's OA's. I just personally really don't. I'll try to talk about some positives too.

I agree with Rath, though I think that calling it the worst ever isn't quite on the mark. Fire Emblem didn't even hire a real deal artist until FE3, and it shows in the prior games. The art is detailed, maybe, but not realistic. The shading style doesn't appeal to me, as it seems like the digital textures are there to replace any color work or shading that could be done. And even though the characters in question aren't the most developed, the art should suggest otherwise. Especially compared to the OA's in New Mystery of the Emblem, with their far more expressive poses, crisper lineart and coloring, clothing that folds and falls with those poses, expressions on their faces, and textures that don't clash.

In fairness, the drawing of Gharnef is probably my favorite of Shadow Dragon's OAs. Look at that head, he looks almost like a skull! That evil one-eyed glare, those wrinkly gnarly fingers... Gharnef is a character who by concept has a lot of placed that require actual shading, and his status as a villain causes the artist to use a different style than the protagonists. That face just screams evil. His proportions are still a little weird (he looks hunched but kinda not really), but still.

However, I think that the faces overall are pretty bad. It looks like part of them were focused on more than others, and in many cases, the eyes are so incredibly highlighted and detailed that it looks like the character's eyes are dead and they aren't looking at anything. They all look so blank, and before anyone can blame that on the characters not being developed, art should show personality or at least thought within the characters. Especially when compared to the clothing. The characters can even look off beyond the artwork. Ogma's design is one of my least favorites for many reasons. Lots of his skin is exposed, so the texture on the clothing compared to the skin is on full display, and his big shiny doe-eyes clash terribly with the rest of his face, especially the less detailed lines. And worst of all, He can be very odd-looking. Is he hung over? It looks like he's about to puke. And Minerva back there is all "battle, wha?" I wouldn't be suprised if her body was lifted stright from the official art, as there is no movement at all in there to suggest that she is in a battle, especially compared to Marth and Sheeda, the obvious centers of attention.

I could critique that particular picture forever.

And I hope I don't even have to explain why this picture bothers me the most.

Shirow Masamune is a prominent artist, and I won't pretend that I'm a fan of him or know what kind of person he is or what he typically does beyond Ghost in the Shell. But from what I do know from my basic knowledge, I really don't think he was the best choice for Fire Emblem art. He has made a career out of doing artwork for cyberpunk and post apocalyptic themes, and I think his style is made to compliment that. Not that an artist that does art for one genre can't do art for another, but I think his style works better in his other projects, where faces and poses like that can fit into the punk atmosphere and animation style on the whole.

But to end on a happy note, I don't think I ever mentioned that I like Shadow Dragon's CGs a lot. There aren't many of them, but I like their dark, hatched style that downplays facial features in favor of expressive lines and poses, a good move for a story relatively light on development. I was very pleased to see that there were more in the same style in New Mystery. While I might not like the original art, I think the designs were at least put to good use in the game proper.

EDIT: Also, Leaf Ninja'd me. Even if he hadn't posted that he liked the art, I would have probably gone into this at some point down the line. I didn't do this to fight anyone, it's just something I really notice and thought was worth my discussion.