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 Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:02 pm
Come on, you guys knew it was coming.
Are the media and the police right to condemn the entire movement for the acts of a few hooligans? Or is the media portraying them as they're paid to?
Was that officer justified in pepper spraying that line of students in peaceful protest?
How far do you think this movement will go?
Are there any concerns that you think should be represented by the movement?
I'd love to hear the responses of this intelligent and diverse community. Beats browsing Youtube comments. Angry reply, angry reply, troll, troll, angry reply... ugh.
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Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:46 am
This is mere symptoms of the sickness.
As i see it, the sanest in the bunch, is the Occupy Wall Street ones.
And that really says quite much.
Occupy Wall Street is doing what the Police and the Media Should be doing, and that is putting two and two together, and see that the real wrongs have been made by paid economical theorists, that pulls out theories that clarly does not work, and the ones who paid them to make those theories, and those who use those theories to gain further money(because they understand that the theories do not work as thei are said to be working).
Conspiracy? Nah, it is beyond that, it is common practice to those that is able and enough unscrupulous (or perhaps unwitting as well) enough to use it.
As i see it, a real mathematichian would debunk most or even all economical theories in a matter of mere minutes. .... or even less.
Ok, granted, some economical theories do work, but those is not the ones that is used when it comes to regular workers.
Some may say that this is just my opinion.
Well, the fact is obvious, those theories don't work, lest there wouldn't have been these problems now.
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:23 am
Tiina Brown This is mere symptoms of the sickness. As i see it, the sanest in the bunch, is the Occupy Wall Street ones. And that really says quite much. Occupy Wall Street is doing what the Police and the Media Should be doing, and that is putting two and two together, and see that the real wrongs have been made by paid economical theorists, that pulls out theories that clarly does not work, and the ones who paid them to make those theories, and those who use those theories to gain further money(because they understand that the theories do not work as thei are said to be working). Conspiracy? Nah, it is beyond that, it is common practice to those that is able and enough unscrupulous (or perhaps unwitting as well) enough to use it. As i see it, a real mathematichian would debunk most or even all economical theories in a matter of mere minutes. .... or even less. Ok, granted, some economical theories do work, but those is not the ones that is used when it comes to regular workers. Some may say that this is just my opinion. Well, the fact is obvious, those theories don't work, lest there wouldn't have been these problems now. So you think the protesters are in the right? Do you think there was another way to go about this instead of going out on the street and camping illegally? Or is this the only way to be heard?
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:02 pm
The protesters are clearly right, no doubt about that to me.
Ok, they seem unfocussed, and might often act unfocussed, but that is practically unavoidable, du to the rampant amount of injustices.
They practically do everything they can do.
They have a problem though, since a few has lost their focus too much, protesting just for the protest, and also attracts hooligan-styled who rather riot ....
Who has really defined what is illegal?
Right now, it is those who have the money to influence those in power, and those who is in power, that practically uses it to get power.
Not all those with power and/or money acts like that, of course, but there is enough, and when they run rampant, you get results like the latest ... economical situation .....
What is worse, is that their version of running rampant counts on others following them along, so they see to that they get run-alongs ...
In a way, rioters are the same, the only difference is that they drag along poor, and in ths case, the Occupy Wall Street movement risk some falling to the rioters, and even worse, considering your first post: Guilt by association with rioters, even though theyd prefer to steer cleer of rioters entirely.
Another way ... "another way", in this case would require more schooling than most protesters have, and notably more integrity than most humans seem to have, in general ...
I think of someone in Australia, a well-known protester for the original native's cause.
He went into politics to try to change things for the better.
It seems he didn't manage, and some even seems to think he's gone corrupted.
So, going into politics might not be the right way ....
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Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 4:09 am
Tiina Brown The protesters are clearly right, no doubt about that to me. Ok, they seem unfocussed, and might often act unfocussed, but that is practically unavoidable, du to the rampant amount of injustices. They practically do everything they can do. They have a problem though, since a few has lost their focus too much, protesting just for the protest, and also attracts hooligan-styled who rather riot .... Who has really defined what is illegal? Right now, it is those who have the money to influence those in power, and those who is in power, that practically uses it to get power. Not all those with power and/or money acts like that, of course, but there is enough, and when they run rampant, you get results like the latest ... economical situation ..... What is worse, is that their version of running rampant counts on others following them along, so they see to that they get run-alongs ... In a way, rioters are the same, the only difference is that they drag along poor, and in ths case, the Occupy Wall Street movement risk some falling to the rioters, and even worse, considering your first post: Guilt by association with rioters, even though theyd prefer to steer cleer of rioters entirely. Another way ... "another way", in this case would require more schooling than most protesters have, and notably more integrity than most humans seem to have, in general ... I think of someone in Australia, a well-known protester for the original native's cause. He went into politics to try to change things for the better. It seems he didn't manage, and some even seems to think he's gone corrupted. So, going into politics might not be the right way .... Actually, there ARE city laws that have been in place before the movement that prevent camping in public areas. The police have been upholding it, but are their measures too severe? Raiding camps in the middle of the night like bandits? Campus police at UC Davis pepperspraying a group of peaceful protesters as their friends watched screaming in the background? Personally, I think the rioters are guilty of the human condition, above all else. We can't all be like Ghandi. Whoever passed out the virtues really skimped on patience for many, many people. Can you blame them for being desperate, with times like this? Granted that not everyone is wallowing in a pit of depression and poverty, but people have to understand that the broad spectrum of problems and the people affected can't truly be represented by a single group. There's simply too much to deal with. I agree, entering politics isn't the greatest of ideas. Power and corruption go hand in hand, and I don't think this group can stand the crippling blow of having people who once stood for them turning against them. They're shaky enough as it is. ... I want to hear from someone who disagrees with the movement. lol. I feel like this is going to get too one-sided.
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Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 7:43 am
What are they even protesting? I'm confused about this whole movement. Do they even have a specific goal or some thing they are trying to accomplish?
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Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:03 am
Shadows-shine What are they even protesting? I'm confused about this whole movement. Do they even have a specific goal or some thing they are trying to accomplish? That's a good question. XD The movement's still young. It started with the economy, I guess, but then everyone else who has beef with the way things are jumped in and it's turned into a jumble of various different issues. College fees, the economy, etc... feel free to add to the list. It probably goes on and on...
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Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:22 am
Shouza Actually, there ARE city laws that have been in place before the movement that prevent camping in public areas. The police have been upholding it, but are their measures too severe? Raiding camps in the middle of the night like bandits? Campus police at UC Davis pepperspraying a group of peaceful protesters as their friends watched screaming in the background? Personally, I think the rioters are guilty of the human condition, above all else. We can't all be like Ghandi. Whoever passed out the virtues really skimped on patience for many, many people. Can you blame them for being desperate, with times like this? Granted that not everyone is wallowing in a pit of depression and poverty, but people have to understand that the broad spectrum of problems and the people affected can't truly be represented by a single group. There's simply too much to deal with. I agree, entering politics isn't the greatest of ideas. Power and corruption go hand in hand, and I don't think this group can stand the crippling blow of having people who once stood for them turning against them. They're shaky enough as it is. ... I want to hear from someone who disagrees with the movement. lol. I feel like this is going to get too one-sided. Yes, but why do those city laws exist to begin with? Most probably to "keep the area clean from unwanted squatters" .... As i said, the protesters are right. The police just do their job. I don't blame anyone that has become desperate due to this situation. "the broad spectrum of problems and the people affected can't truly be represented by a single group. There's simply too much to deal with" One of the complaints about the OWS movement, has been that they went to great lengths, to include all complaints and problems that they could, and this made the politicians say "look at this rabble, they can't even decide on one issue to talk about" ... "Hear from someone who is against" .... This reminds me on the view of "debating", as it is a game, and all that counts is "taking points", and nobody really cares for the truth. Someone that states the truth may easily lose a debate, due to seeming "less beliveable" ... Also, one do not always ask for "the other side's view" ... in several other cases, one do not care that it seems, or even is, "onesided". Often, it is onesided, and rightly so, but in other cases, topics gets onesided, because certain people thinks that true several-sided comments becomes one-sided against them instead ...
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Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:33 am
Tiina Brown Shouza Actually, there ARE city laws that have been in place before the movement that prevent camping in public areas. The police have been upholding it, but are their measures too severe? Raiding camps in the middle of the night like bandits? Campus police at UC Davis pepperspraying a group of peaceful protesters as their friends watched screaming in the background? Personally, I think the rioters are guilty of the human condition, above all else. We can't all be like Ghandi. Whoever passed out the virtues really skimped on patience for many, many people. Can you blame them for being desperate, with times like this? Granted that not everyone is wallowing in a pit of depression and poverty, but people have to understand that the broad spectrum of problems and the people affected can't truly be represented by a single group. There's simply too much to deal with. I agree, entering politics isn't the greatest of ideas. Power and corruption go hand in hand, and I don't think this group can stand the crippling blow of having people who once stood for them turning against them. They're shaky enough as it is. ... I want to hear from someone who disagrees with the movement. lol. I feel like this is going to get too one-sided. Yes, but why do those city laws exist to begin with? Most probably to "keep the area clean from unwanted squatters" .... As i said, the protesters are right. The police just do their job. I don't blame anyone that has become desperate due to this situation. "the broad spectrum of problems and the people affected can't truly be represented by a single group. There's simply too much to deal with" One of the complaints about the OWS movement, has been that they went to great lengths, to include all complaints and problems that they could, and this made the politicians say "look at this rabble, they can't even decide on one issue to talk about" ... "Hear from someone who is against" .... This reminds me on the view of "debating", as it is a game, and all that counts is "taking points", and nobody really cares for the truth. Someone that states the truth may easily lose a debate, due to seeming "less beliveable" ... Also, one do not always ask for "the other side's view" ... in several other cases, one do not care that it seems, or even is, "onesided". Often, it is onesided, and rightly so, but in other cases, topics gets onesided, because certain people thinks that true several-sided comments becomes one-sided against them instead ... I've never seen debating as a 'game'. I believe that both sides of the argument need to be heard and understood to reach the oh-so elusive 'truth'. I made this topic because there are intelligent people from both sides of the spectrum in this guild, and I wanted to hear from both. So, yes. You say not a lot of people care for the other half of the story, but I want to hear it. Think of it as a learning experience. smile
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Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:56 am
Shouza I've never seen debating as a 'game'. I believe that both sides of the argument need to be heard and understood to reach the oh-so elusive 'truth'. I made this topic because there are intelligent people from both sides of the spectrum in this guild, and I wanted to hear from both. So, yes. You say not a lot of people care for the other half of the story, but I want to hear it. Think of it as a learning experience. smile Both sides of the argument? Are you really sure? I know that the examples i'll mention will be off topic, but that is only examples of where it usually goes onesided .... to show how hard it can be to ask for "the other side": Those who say the moonlanding did not exist. Those who say the Holocaust did not exist. Peadophiliacs that claims that their love is true, and that it was returned. Zoophiliacs that say their love is true, and returned. Those that say apartheid was good. Would you really listen to them? I mean, Really? I always bother to get the most possible views i can get, but once i have that info, i can usually see how close the involved are to the actual truth, and why they are, or are not. And then, when i state what i have gotten as results, it may naturally seem one-sided, because it is very rare that most sides are entirely correct.
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Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:15 am
Tiina Brown Both sides of the argument? Are you really sure? I know that the examples i'll mention will be off topic, but that is only examples of where it usually goes onesided .... to show how hard it can be to ask for "the other side": Those who say the moonlanding did not exist. Those who say the Holocaust did not exist. Peadophiliacs that claims that their love is true, and that it was returned. Zoophiliacs that say their love is true, and returned. Those that say apartheid was good. Would you really listen to them? I mean, Really? I always bother to get the most possible views i can get, but once i have that info, i can usually see how close the involved are to the actual truth, and why they are, or are not. And then, when i state what i have gotten as results, it may naturally seem one-sided, because it is very rare that most sides are entirely correct. The trick is to listen, then decide for yourself what you want to believe. You've got your priorities straight, and I respect that, but I personally want to hear what everyone has to say before making my decision. There is absolutely nothing wrong with listening, and I'm not saying that both sides are equally 'correct'. I am asking for opinions here. Facts, if there are any to offer. We're not even close to discussing the 'truth' yet, because we haven't even heard the whole story. Edit: Forgive me, wrong case.
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Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:30 pm
Shouza Shadows-shine What are they even protesting? I'm confused about this whole movement. Do they even have a specific goal or some thing they are trying to accomplish? That's a good question. XD The movement's still young. It started with the economy, I guess, but then everyone else who has beef with the way things are jumped in and it's turned into a jumble of various different issues. College fees, the economy, etc... feel free to add to the list. It probably goes on and on... Have they accomplished any thing? I've heard reports on the news that they are living in camps that have had out breaks of scabies and lice... Eww! Where is the sense of hygene? Are they protesting the government too? I've also heard they hate both political parties, but yet some democrats have shown great support for this movement. ( sweatdrop sorry for the unending questions/rant. I am trying to figure this movement out.)
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Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:50 pm
Shouza Tiina Brown Both sides of the argument? Are you really sure? I know that the examples i'll mention will be off topic, but that is only examples of where it usually goes onesided .... to show how hard it can be to ask for "the other side": Those who say the moonlanding did not exist. Those who say the Holocaust did not exist. Peadophiliacs that claims that their love is true, and that it was returned. Zoophiliacs that say their love is true, and returned. Those that say apartheid was good. Would you really listen to them? I mean, Really? I always bother to get the most possible views i can get, but once i have that info, i can usually see how close the involved are to the actual truth, and why they are, or are not. And then, when i state what i have gotten as results, it may naturally seem one-sided, because it is very rare that most sides are entirely correct. The trick is to listen, then decide for yourself what you want to believe. You've got your priorities straight, and I respect that, but I personally want to hear what everyone has to say before making my decision. There is absolutely nothing wrong with listening, and I'm not saying that both sides are equally 'correct'. I am asking for opinions here. Facts, if there are any to offer. We're not even close to discussing the 'truth' yet, because we haven't even heard the whole story. Edit: Forgive me, wrong case. Um, wrong case? Ok, it do seem like you have the working idea, too. Personally, i have the impression i have all neccesary info, partially thanks to me not living in US, so the news in this country is less biased all in all. (It has its own flaws, but it is about different places and things.) One has to remember, that even several that is thought of as "greedy" really isn't, they just ended up in this situation, as several others, just a bit better off. As for those hit worst, this economical situation was easily the last straw. Have you any idea how long they have been patient, trying to scratch out their living, already before the economical problems? And then, there is the police. They was given the duty to remove the occupants ... And, there is bad eggs within the police too. The result ... what you have seen.
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Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:07 pm
Shadows-shine Shouza Shadows-shine What are they even protesting? I'm confused about this whole movement. Do they even have a specific goal or some thing they are trying to accomplish? That's a good question. XD The movement's still young. It started with the economy, I guess, but then everyone else who has beef with the way things are jumped in and it's turned into a jumble of various different issues. College fees, the economy, etc... feel free to add to the list. It probably goes on and on... Have they accomplished any thing? I've heard reports on the news that they are living in camps that have had out breaks of scabies and lice... Eww! Where is the sense of hygene? Are they protesting the government too? I've also heard they hate both political parties, but yet some democrats have shown great support for this movement. ( sweatdrop sorry for the unending questions/rant. I am trying to figure this movement out.) Some Democrats support them, because those democrats actually wants to make things good for them. Note also, that it is just a few Democrats that supports them, not all Democrats, and that is the reason why the movement hate both Republicans and Democrats: Those two "parties" talk a lot, and even when Democrats try to make things better for those worst off, it often ends up in nothing important getting done anyway, despite all the good talk and intentions. As for hygiene, where would you suggest they wash? In their homes or houses that they no longer have? ... Sorry if i come on hard, i'm not trying to bash, i just want to descrive their situation to you.
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Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:18 pm
Shadows-shine Shouza Shadows-shine What are they even protesting? I'm confused about this whole movement. Do they even have a specific goal or some thing they are trying to accomplish? That's a good question. XD The movement's still young. It started with the economy, I guess, but then everyone else who has beef with the way things are jumped in and it's turned into a jumble of various different issues. College fees, the economy, etc... feel free to add to the list. It probably goes on and on... Have they accomplished any thing? I've heard reports on the news that they are living in camps that have had out breaks of scabies and lice... Eww! Where is the sense of hygene? Are they protesting the government too? I've also heard they hate both political parties, but yet some democrats have shown great support for this movement. ( sweatdrop sorry for the unending questions/rant. I am trying to figure this movement out.) Many have tried to understand the movement, and few have succeeded. Instead of hearing things through the media, go over to a camp and ask them yourself. Straight from the horse's mouth is the best way to go. They might butter themselves up a bit, but that's where common sense and good judgement comes in.
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