Love? Or Not to Love?

[Cup!ofSodium]

I went to church the other week and Pastor was preaching this sermon.

The part that stood out to me most is that loving something is hating the things that make the object of love hurt.

Example: If I love my hypothetical alcoholic dad, I hate the alcohol, but love my dad.

And my pastor was comparing this to America today and saying that we should prevent homosexual marriage and abortion because it hurts America and, if we really love America, we will keep these things from happening.

Yet, I've also heard from my debate teacher that America is about free choice. It was built upon the right to choose what you will do with your life, therefore, if we keep someone from choosing what they want to do, then we're hurting the country.

I agree with that, because America was based on freedom of choice...

My question is: Is it wrong for me, as a Christian, to support the choice of gay marriage or abortion? I wouldn't necessarily have an abortion because of personal causes.. But I also believe that that may be some other woman's solution... Does that make me an unloving person?  

[Gods Jester]

This country was founded on the rigth to choose, but it is also based on christianity and God. It is VERY hard to keep this a christian country and allow free choice. That's why we're allowed to vote and stuff. It's our responsibility as Christians to fight gay marriage and abortion. So yes, I'd say it's a sin to support gay marriage and abortion.  

[Guacamole-kun]

[Ookami-sama]

And my pastor was comparing this to America today and saying that we should prevent homosexual marriage and abortion because it hurts America and, if we really love America, we will keep these things from happening.

Aah, but you see, that's completely his opinion. My opinion is that not having these things is what would hurt America, since, like Kajun said, this country is based on Freedom of choice, speech, religion, etc, and banning these things would go against that. (And it did indeed start out as a Christian country... but only because all the founders were Christian.)

But I don't hate the people who are trying to get these things banned. I just think they should mind their own business, and work on getting other Christians to follow the rules of the Bible, rather than trying to get people who have completely different religions to follow rules that have nothing to do with them.

I'd say that the things you choose to believe and support art entirely up to you. Don't let your religion tell you what to do, (especially since who knows what was originally in the Bible and what's been made up during the last 2000-or-so years) THINK about it, with the brain you believe was given to you by God, and do whatever you think is right. I firmly believe that no God who is truly good and truly loves you would punish you for doing what you think is right.

But that's just my opinion.  

[ioioouiouiouio]

America never was, and, hopefully, never will be, a christian country.

While I am morally obliged to say that Homosexual marriage is a sin, I know that, legally, to not let them have it, is a crime.

However, abortion, I stand, is the killing of another human being, which is murder.  

[Tarrou]

Ahem, to all saying that the United States of American was founded on Christianity, I direct you to the Treaty of Tripoli (1796), Article 11.

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." (Emphasis mine.)

Bear in mind that this article, along with the rest of the treaty, was approved by the President of the United States and ratified (unanimously) by the Senate, thus, according to the constitution, giving it the force of law.

No, the United States was founded on the principles of the Enlightenment and not on the basis of any religion. In fact, I defy anyone to point to a place in the Constitution where it says that the laws of the U.S. are based upon the Christian religion or the providence of the Christian God.  

[Cup!ofSodium]

Thanks, guys, your opinions really helped me out. heart  

[postage-paid]

there is a difference between supporting and respecting. At my youth group last year one of the topics discussed was homosexuality. As Christians it's easy to fall into the trap thinking that all homosexuals are disgustingly sinful. However, did Jesus say "Love thy neighbor unless he's gay" or did he just state "Love thy neighbor"?

Though it is wrong to be in support of the practice of gay marriage, it is also wrong to treat them unfairly. We are all seen as equal in God's eyes. We are all sinners, and though the sin of homosexuality comes across as a horrible sin, the fact remains: God does not see it that way. He sees it as sin, yes, but not any worse than the deeds committed by another.

On the topic of abortion, I'd say that as a Christian it is very wrong to support it. Just because the legal choice to kill an unborn baby is available does not make it morally or spiritually correct.  

[Spartan1989]

kajun_chicken

This country was founded on the rigth to choose, but it is also based on christianity and God. It is VERY hard to keep this a christian country and allow free choice. That's why we're allowed to vote and stuff. It's our responsibility as Christians to fight gay marriage and abortion. So yes, I'd say it's a sin to support gay marriage and abortion.

Yes I am against gay marriage and abortion but I do not think it is correct for activists to go out and start a social war over it. If you don't support these issues you vote for a canidate who has your certain beliefs , not go an try to inforce Christianity on the un-believers that is wrong, and in turn we are probably turning away so many people because of the activists who do this. The un-saved don't knbow what there doing is wrong and they have basicly every right to be gay if they choose. its when a fellow brother or sister goes astray and starts doing things of this nature that we have to worrie and rebuke if need be.  

[torrinne]

I hereby refer all of you to the sticky on homosexuality. I'm not saying you're wrong, but just please read it if you haven't yet.

Freedom. To be who you are, no matter what other people think. Isn't that what this country is founded on? And, taking it one step further, isn't that what CHRISTIANITY is founded on? The right to believe in our God, and our risen Christ. The right to be who we are, regardless of what other people think.

The only thing I see as being detrimental to america about homosexuality and abortion is the hatred that happens when people can't accept them. And, that really isn't gay people's fault, or people who need/want abortions fault, now is it?  

[Seority]

[Ookami-sama]

I went to church the other week and Pastor was preaching this sermon.

The part that stood out to me most is that loving something is hating the things that make the object of love hurt.

Example: If I love my hypothetical alcoholic dad, I hate the alcohol, but love my dad.

And my pastor was comparing this to America today and saying that we should prevent homosexual marriage and abortion because it hurts America and, if we really love America, we will keep these things from happening.

Yet, I've also heard from my debate teacher that America is about free choice. It was built upon the right to choose what you will do with your life, therefore, if we keep someone from choosing what they want to do, then we're hurting the country.

I agree with that, because America was based on freedom of choice...

My question is: Is it wrong for me, as a Christian, to support the choice of gay marriage or abortion? I wouldn't necessarily have an abortion because of personal causes.. But I also believe that that may be some other woman's solution... Does that make me an unloving person?

I say that we as Christians should never participate in homosexuallity or abortion, but as for the others, well let me just say, "Trying to tell the sun not to shine on a cloudless day is the same thing as telling a sinner not to sin." Got me? This world isn't full of Christains so why tell them to live by our standards?

I have many homosexual friends who, of course, not Christain so I say it's ok for them to do what they want. As for abortion, I'm totally against it. Why not adoption? Is it really that hard? Oh yeah, if a girl was going to get an abortion, her parents should totally know about it weither she wants them to or not. It's a surgery from a legal sence.

 

[Curium]

kajun_chicken

This country was founded on the rigth to choose, but it is also based on christianity and God. It is VERY hard to keep this a christian country and allow free choice. That's why we're allowed to vote and stuff. It's our responsibility as Christians to fight gay marriage and abortion. So yes, I'd say it's a sin to support gay marriage and abortion.

So, you say supporting gay marriage and abortion, which are both choices that people have to make for themselves...and are free to do so, is bad..yet your signature is V from V for Vendetta and says "freedom forever"...go figure...talk about hypocracy.  

[BDSaint13]

[Ookami-sama]

I went to church the other week and Pastor was preaching this sermon.

The part that stood out to me most is that loving something is hating the things that make the object of love hurt.

Example: If I love my hypothetical alcoholic dad, I hate the alcohol, but love my dad.

And my pastor was comparing this to America today and saying that we should prevent homosexual marriage and abortion because it hurts America and, if we really love America, we will keep these things from happening.

Yet, I've also heard from my debate teacher that America is about free choice. It was built upon the right to choose what you will do with your life, therefore, if we keep someone from choosing what they want to do, then we're hurting the country.

I agree with that, because America was based on freedom of choice...

My question is: Is it wrong for me, as a Christian, to support the choice of gay marriage or abortion? I wouldn't necessarily have an abortion because of personal causes.. But I also believe that that may be some other woman's solution... Does that make me an unloving person?

I don't think gay marriage is the biggest deal in the world although even Bill Clinton signed something that said it should be marriage between a man and a woman. But in the end I really don't care that much.....

Abortion, thats a childs life, no one has the right to determine someones life. If you think about it thats what America was based on, letting someone have the choice in their life. By choosing them not have life, you are prenting another thing america is based on, freedom for the people, and you can't give freedom if your killing the people.  

[sunshinehearttrob]

i dont know, im okay with abortion as long as its a last choice. if your unable to support your child financially, emotionially, and all that. then your future child's life just going to be miserable and you as the parent dont want that. just remember that all the decisions you make in life will come back and haunt you.  

[Kuroi Kokoro no Mendori]

Abortion is not regarded as murder in God's eyes.

Leviticus 24:17-21

17 " 'If anyone takes the life of a human being, he must be put to death. 18 Anyone who takes the life of someone's animal must make restitution—life for life. 19 If anyone injures his neighbor, whatever he has done must be done to him: 20 fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. As he has injured the other, so he is to be injured. 21 Whoever kills an animal must make restitution, but whoever kills a man must be put to death.

Life for life is supported in the Old Testament as a method of justice. However:

Exodus 21:22-25

22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [a] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

This shows that even though life for life is supported, causing a miscarriage is only punished by fine, as is stealing.

Verse source- http://mwillett.org/atheism/abort.htm Go there, it has way more.


As for homosexuality, it is not a choice nor is it a sin.

http://www.godmademegay.com/Letter.htm

Please refute Appendix B in this link if you wish to debate this. Otherwise, admit you're wrong.  

[SinfulGuillotine]

Seority

I say that we as Christians should never participate in homosexuallity or abortion, but as for the others, well let me just say, "Trying to tell the sun not to shine on a cloudless day is the same thing as telling a sinner not to sin." Got me? This world isn't full of Christains so why tell them to live by our standards?

Except that Christians are still sinners.

Quote:

I have many homosexual friends who, of course, not Christain so I say it's ok for them to do what they want. As for abortion, I'm totally against it. Why not adoption? Is it really that hard? Oh yeah, if a girl was going to get an abortion, her parents should totally know about it weither she wants them to or not. It's a surgery from a legal sence.

Homosexuals can be Christian.

Anyway, regarding the original topic, I disagree with the pastor's statement, to begin with. Needing to hate in order to love seems highly contradictory. For example, I love my sister. When she made a rather serious mistake, our mother flew off the handle and wounded her emotionally quite badly. Does that mean that I should hate my mother because she hurt my sister? I honestly don't think so. She's my mother, and I love her, too. I was angry at her for the way she treated my sister, but I certainly didn't (and don't) hate her. Hating anything seems to only inhibit love, and I think that inhibiting love is...well, not good.

In a secular government, there is no good reason to deny same-sex couples the legal rights of marriage. It doesn't matter if you think homosexuality is a sin or not. If sinners couldn't get married, then we'd all be single for our entire lives.

Abortion is a little more iffy. But I hate debating abortion, so I'm not even going to touch it.