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Delmar_Denban Vice Captain
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 Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:09 am
Ok, the purpose of this thread is to state the facts about the Martial Arts in order to banish the myths that so many Martial Arts believe to be true.
This can include origins, techniques, rumours, etc.
This will give martial arts practitioners and newbies alike a chance to learn something new.
State the facts and do your research!!!!!!
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Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:17 am
Good idea. I'd need to do a lot of research if I were to actually post anything worthwile here. I don't really know as much as I should, I think.
I look forward to reading what everyone else has to say though. Should prove to be very informative.
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Delmar_Denban Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:18 am
[ Message temporarily off-line ]
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Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:53 am
Its also worth mentioning that various early europeans developed weapon fighting arts. The Greek and Roman armies mainly trained in close quarter unit maneuveres but undoubtedly trained in individual sword combat aswell. And whilst its unknown how developed these arts were they date from 1000-400BC. If you have seen the film Troy, there is a scene where Achilles is sword sparring with a relative and whilst it was highly holywood-ised the fact that Greek soldiers trained in a formalised combat system is not in doubt. However the scene where they engage in individual spear and shield combat is total bullshit, the Greek spear was up to 18' long, heavy with a reinforced bronze point, far too long and unwieldy for that sort of use.
It was the Romans that perfected the use of the stabbing sword, it was their innovative, flexible, cohesive use of the gladius that allowed them to conquer most of the known world.
"The (Roman) soldiers were trained relentlessly in fighting in formation with different types of weapons, and also single combat. The standard drill involved using a sword against a post embedded in the ground, or against a real opponent, over and over again so a soldier could learn where to hit, and to hit that point accurately. The Armatura, or Gladiatorial drill, was also used to allow equally, or otherwise, matched opponents to spar against each other."
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Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:44 pm
May I add something? I would like to slightly demistify Muay Thai Kickboxing.
Origin of Muay Thai Kickboxing
The martial art, Muay Thai, originated in Thailand over 2,000 years ago, when the Thai people used it to defend their country from invaders. Muay Thai is often called the "Science of Eight Limbs" due to its wide spectrum of offensive attacks. This full-contact sport utilizes hands, elbows, feet, and knees, using various strikes, kicks, grapples, and holds.
Muay Thai focuses strongly on the fighter's mind and spirit, while developing all of the body's natural weapons. It has roots in Buddhism, which influence the training techniques, and the pre-fight spiritual ceremony in the ring.
Muay Thai is not standard "kickboxing", which is a sport developed in the last century in America and Japan. Muay Thai is practiced in its modern form by over 300,000 people across the world.
My Personal Addition
As for what the "Science of Eight Limbs" or "Principle of the Eight Limbs" means you have 2 hands, 2 feet, 2 elbows and 2 knees. All must be utilized to have maximum effectiveness in combat. However, in traditional Muay Thai sparring, elbow strikes are not typically used due to the fact they are so dangerous.
Muay Thai mixes quite well actually with grappling martial arts like BJJ or the sort due to the fact Muay Thai is even more lethal when tight in. It involved much clinching with the opponent to get knee strikes and elbow strikes in with maximum effectveness, while in a clinch this opens the doors to many different grappling openings. Muay Thai can have many adaptations of the sort, making it an extremely brutal but effective martial art.
Muay Thai also has no belt system. It is free form and highly traditional (if you so choose it to be). The belt system would limit a fighter's capability during training in Muay Thai (my personal observation.) because it focuses on straight out combat rather then practicing katas and various other showmanship activities. Buddhism governs essentially all tradition of Muay Thai.
One slight different mechanic however that I feel must be pointed out, the round kick, or named as "The king of all kicks", is not like a round house snap kick. It is a piercing, penetrating kick then swings your entire body around hence putting almost every ounce of your weight into it. The instep is typically used to hit the head and highter points of the body while the shin is used to his the body and legs, this is for maximum effectiveness. MuayThai fighters condition their shins to the point of such hardness they can take an indefinite beating to their legs. Conditioning starts out light (I presonally recommend a shinai or something) just hitting your shins (the muscle part, hitting the bone does nothing) but it is said true professionals condition even with baseball bats.
I would get into the pre-fight ceremony of the Thai fighters (Ram Muay) but thats a whole other thing, I will get the info if the public so desires though, or you can look it up yourself.
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Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:11 pm
I've noticed boxing tends to have skewed views. So I felt I might as well clarify it a bit (mostly because I am bored.) This is mostly useless information.
The History of Boxing
Boxing's origins can be traced all the way back to 688 B.C. in Greece, where it was an event in the Ancient Olympic Games. However, the sport didn't catch on in the United States until the late 1800s. Since that time, however, Americans have dominated the sport, capturing 47 of the 191 gold medals available.
A decade and a half after being recognized in the U.S., boxing first appeared in the Modern Olympics at the 1904 Games in St. Louis, Mo.
My Personal Addition
Boxing focuses entirely on punches. There are no kicking techniques at all. Most may think this limiting, but having taken boxing myself, its not. A leg is a much larger target then an arm hence making a leg easier to counter by blocking, parrying or grabbing. A punch however is harder to catch, especially when done fast and properly. They are also easier to use.
As for the punches, a boxer has a repotoire of punching techniques, including jabs, crosses, uppercuts and hooks. The good thing about punching is you can easily weave them into intricate combos (as is common knowledge.)
Punches are fairly straight forward, however what about defensive maneuvers? Well, boxing primarily focuses on ducking, dodging, slipping and the sort. Being evasive. A good boxer will normally be light on his feet ready to duck or dodge a punch. Blocks are really only used if backed into a corner because when blocking a punch the opponent can more easily just slip in to another hit rather then with kicks its harder to come back and attack again. Boxers weave a lot to get into their range, as you can imagine, boxing requires good infighting skills.
There isn't much tradition with boxing or spiritual discipline, its mostly just fighting (if there was, it has been lost).
Many people consider boxing not a real martial art, but it really is. It has its ties to all others, it is a way of fighting, its training conditions are like that of others, tehre is no reason to believe its not.
So as you see, boxing actually isnt that complex. Its fairly simple, not much to get into. If you feel there is much more, go look it up yourself.
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Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 8:49 pm
I would like to demystify Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. I found an amazing site on it, it has all sorts of techniques and history and interviews and such, check it out: Brazilian Jiu-JistuVery good site for demystifying BJJ/GJJ. Enjoy! PS: Sorry I am not doing my usual explanation, but this guy explains it best.
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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:47 pm
I think I shall post in this thread later, abit tight for time right now though, sorry all.
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:06 pm
I will give it my best shot at explaining Kung Fu.
Intellectual Whores
First off nobody cares if it's Gung Fu, Kung Fu, Gong Fu, etc. This is something that Chinese wannabes have been using for several years to pretend to be smart. They are not, do not listen to them. English expresses the art as being, "Kung Fu" and it should stay at that while the language spoken is English.
Kung Fu Cowardice syndrome
This is single handedly the most destructive force against Kung Fu's credibility. Explain, people who take Muay Thai or BJJ, generally plan on becoming great strikers or grapplers and take their skills to practical use in ways of tourneys or self defense. Because of the Shaolin nature, somehow thousands of pizza crust faced nerd militants have decided Kung Fu is their answer for gaining credibility. They believe that since, it's about discipline, self control, blah, blah, they can get away with never fighting yet somehow still being credible fighters. This is stupidity, any of the following counts as just being a cowardly moron:
-Someone spits in your face and you smile back sheepishly
-Someone tries to get physical with your girlfriend in your presence and you give him a green light
-Someone publicly humiliates you and you act as though nothing happened
Truth: These people are not Buddhist and have no real excuse, they are not amongst brothers with the Dalai Lama, they are in the real world, and need to see things for what they are.
Holding a horse stance does not make anyone a brutal force to be reckoned with(on it's own).
Kung Fu and Tourneys
It has come to my attention that Kung Fu also gets knocked for it's lack of a good competitor at a tourney representing it. There is a reason why Kung Fu is considered self defense, because it's cheap!!
biggrin Face it every second move in Kung Fu would be considered illegal: headbutts, lowblows, eye gauges, ect.
That and kung Fu's failure to excercise any ground work.
Body and Mind
Why would someone learn to make their body a weapon just to live in the hills with nothing? It is because their belief was that the body and mind grow together, they aren't really doing nothing all day. So they want a strong body to have a strong mind and spirit, for self discovery if you will.
My Two Copper Coins
Far from useless, far from all dominant, just beware the cowards, they will talk for hours and will never prove anything, you'll know when you see one.
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:12 pm
FiaNari I will give it my best shot at explaining Kung Fu. Intellectual WhoresFirst off nobody cares if it's Gung Fu, Kung Fu, Gong Fu, etc. This is something that Chinese wannabes have been using for several years to pretend to be smart. They are not, do not listen to them. English expresses the art as being, "Kung Fu" and it should stay at that while the language spoken is English. Kung Fu Cowardice syndrome This is single handedly the most destructive force against Kung Fu's credibility. Explain, people who take Muay Thai or BJJ, generally plan on becoming great strikers or grapplers and take their skills to practical use in ways of tourneys or self defense. Because of the Shaolin nature, somehow thousands of pizza crust faced nerd militants have decided Kung Fu is their answer for gaining credibility. They believe that since, it's about discipline, self control, blah, blah, they can get away with never fighting yet somehow still being credible fighters. This is stupidity, any of the following counts as just being a cowardly moron: -Someone spits in your face and you smile back sheepishly -Someone tries to get physical with your girlfriend in your presence and you give him a green light -Someone publicly humiliates you and you act as though nothing happened Truth: These people are not Buddhist and have no real excuse, they are not amongst brothers with the Dalai Lama, they are in the real world, and need to see things for what they are. Holding a horse stance does not make anyone a brutal force to be reckoned with(on it's own). Kung Fu and Tourneys It has come to my attention that Kung Fu also gets knocked for it's lack of a good competitor at a tourney representing it. There is a reason why Kung Fu is considered self defense, because it's cheap!! biggrin Face it every second move in Kung Fu would be considered illegal: headbutts, lowblows, eye gauges, ect. That and kung Fu's failure to excercise any ground work. Body and Mind Why would someone learn to make their body a weapon just to live in the hills with nothing? It is because their belief was that the body and mind grow together, they aren't really doing nothing all day. So they want a strong body to have a strong mind and spirit, for self discovery if you will. My Two Copper Coins Far from useless, far from all dominant, just beware the cowards, they will talk for hours and will never prove anything, you'll know when you see one. oO I loved that, finally someone with an element of humour to their posts. As for competition I've found that San Soo (no, not San Shou, this is different, go away) students under the San Da ruleset with abit of creativity and cross training tend to give Muay Thai exponents a good run now and then.
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Delmar_Denban Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:27 pm
Good stuff, I enjoyed that.
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:34 pm
Thanks guys really appreciate the feedback. The Kung Fu cowards syndrome was at the back of my head for a while.
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:57 pm
FiaNari Thanks guys really appreciate the feedback. The Kung Fu cowards syndrome was at the back of my head for a while. I know I've asked you this question around three times now ><, however, what schools of Gung Fu (meh, habbit, don't hate on me) are you training in?
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:05 pm
Jass FiaNari Thanks guys really appreciate the feedback. The Kung Fu cowards syndrome was at the back of my head for a while. I know I've asked you this question around three times now ><, however, what schools of Gung Fu (meh, habbit, don't hate on me) are you training in? I won't hate on you I don't care if people spell Kung Fu in 50,000 different ways. I hate it when people try to make a conversation all about the proper spelling of the art. I go to(used to, lack of $ crying , but I'll be up and kicking soon) a place in downtown Toronto called temple knights which teached the variants and offsprings of the five animals( the Hun Gar, Ba Gua, Wing Chuan), of course since the components are mixed I won't lie and say I know all too much on one, rather a healthy balance.
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Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 5:15 pm
Yeah, that was good Fia. I was just simply stating facts guys, I didn't think you guys wanted humor in the posts. crying
Meh, just kidding. Yeah, Gung Fu is pretty lame. I don't like it. I have a friend who does it, hasn't won a match yet against me and my other friends, lol. Its sad really, you can see his record thus far on my website. Its embarrassing... to say the least. Mind you he has hopes of becoming a professional martial artist. Now don't get me wrong, the kid has spirit, but he can be a bit too stubborn at times and, well, for lack of better words, "Your kung fu is weak!" xd
Muay Thai and BJJ are in my opinion obviously superior to Gung Fu.
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