|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:13 am
Yeah. I'm swapping to Zerg for a while. I'll rotate between zerg n toss later, but I'm really committing myself to getting good at zerg right now.
So, with that out, any basic tips that I should know?
I don't really need basic mechanics tips, but more along the lines of little tips or tricks that improve functionality, or how to get the most out of my units/buildings.
What is safe? What isn't safe? What is considered bad? What really is bad? Basic mistakes? Basics that are more than just "basics" (If that makes sense to you)? Tips to streamline performance? Common misconceptions? (etc. if you can think of anymore. I'm tired atm V_V)
I've mostly been having issues with ZvZ, as how uninteresting it is, it requires the most attention to. It's similar to PvP, but a lot more fast paced. PvP has a hard time with expanding, and defending all ins. It feels like ZvZ is the same, but it all happens in the first 6 or so minutes. (I watched a day9 daily on ZvZ, but was wondering about anything new since that daily)
Anyways. Halp if can on tips and whatnot. I'd hate to just give up and go back to playing toss, but if I can't step up my game soon on my zerg play, I'm just going to have to go back to toss until I can figure out how to play zerg properly.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:45 pm
Yeah, ZvZ is pain in the a**. If your opponent doesn't do some sort of roach all-in or zerg rush, then you can almost guarantee they'll go for infestor/roach, which is an even bigger pain in the a** because it will roflstomp almost every other army comp that isn't infestor/roach.
As for general tips, if you have an overlord stationed at an empty expo, have it spread creep so your toss/terran opponents can't sneak in an expo. They can also help when you're spreading creep tumors, as queens can plant the tumors father out if you have your overlords extending the radius.
If you're using nydus worms, keep in mind that your opponent can hear it pop up no matter where you place it on the map.
Edit: Lol, C4D's advice makes mine look so stupid XD
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:31 pm
Infestors are good in any composition against any race, don't overkill on them, but always try to throw a handful in to your play, along with burrow tech they become amazing sources for harassment, they can reinforce a dwindling army instantly, they can delay and soften incoming forces and neural parasite has it's uses against terrans with too many thors, or if you can grab an immortal.
ZvP I find the best option is to delay mining gas for as long as you can comfortably, even opting to take a third hatch before even starting your gas, and using slow lings and spine crawlers for defence while you drone really hard in the first few minutes, hatch first is probably your best bet, but just watch out for cannon rushes.
ZvT is always a hatch first opening, but you want to start that gas mining a little earlier, because speedlings are determinate to survival, biggest thing to watch out for I find is banshee openings, sacrifice single lings to count the front, if your opponent has not invested his gas into anything, it's likely he's going banshees, you can clean them up with spore crawlers for detect and a couple of queens, but if you're unprepared it can be devastating. Nothing makes me more upset than losing to a single unit.
zvT i would also suggest opting to get baneling nest every time, and baneling speed, roaches are okay, but less effective if your opponent makes any marauders or tanks. I usually opt to get mutas in ZvT and they can become really effective, more so than in just about any other match up, but it's really important to make sure you can keep them alive, don't engage armies unless you know you can win with very few losses.
ZvZ just sucks, it's so hard, and so volatile. I've been told you can survive 6 pools on a 13 gas 14 pool, but it requires really good drone micro, personally I would opt to always get a slighter faster pool against zerg, as early as 9 pool even, it weakens your economy but you're in better position to defend rushes and if you opponent fast expands, you can punish them for it, but if they decide to go standard they're going to have an edge on you.
Scouting is really important in ZvZ, you need to know what your opponent can do, so you can properly counter, if banelings are coming, you'll need roaches, if it's speedlings, you need banelings, if it's roaches, you need speedlings and spinecrawlers.
The +1 carapace is really important to get as early as possible if you're getting roaches, as they limit zergling capability to do very much damage.
+2 Melee damage on banelings will OHKO just about every worker from every race I believe.
+1 armor on mutas is the better choice to make on upgrades when going against enemy mutas in order to nullify glaive bounce damage, but attack is better against just about everything else.
When doing a spire build, try to time yourself to not spend gas while the spire goes up, and to keep a close eye on your supply, as soon as that spire finishes you want to immediately make as many mutas as you can for the best results, while spire is completing, spend your larva and minerals on a few drones and spine crawlers, but make sure you don't use up all your larva, you'll likely need as many as 13 for when the spire is complete.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:37 am
Cool, the tips help and all. But I just don't have the skill to play Zerg at my level yet =/. I'll play practice games and whatnot as zerg, but I'm just pretty bad as zerg compared to my protoss play. =/
It feels pretty hopeless when you lose 10+ games a day, and only win 1 or 2, and you pretty much just won because they were bad. =/
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:49 pm
i rarely play zerg, but people never expect an ultra swarm 3nodding . just lure them into an open area, split your ultras into different groups, and get them in a pincer move. rarely put it into action but its just fun to watch. 3nodding
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:27 pm
I think imma hold off on doing Z practice until I get myself a 2nd account. I don't want to tank my MMR on my main, because when I play protoss, I'll just stomp the people I'm up against if I get lowered because of my lack of zerg practice.
I'll then use the second account for trying new strats and practicing off race.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:24 pm
You could always play zerg on the public testing server and then play protoss on the main server.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:46 pm
The misconception I've witnessed is that Hydras suck. Maybe they do on paper but almost all my games use a Roach/Hydra army and it works well for me. But take whatever I say with a grain of salt as I haven't played in two months and don't know what changes the most recent patch made or where the current metagame is at.
C4D: Speedlings are detrimental to survival? I don't mean to be rude but you may want to look that word up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:28 am
Immortal Nobody The misconception I've witnessed is that Hydras suck. Maybe they do on paper but almost all my games use a Roach/Hydra army and it works well for me. But take whatever I say with a grain of salt as I haven't played in two months and don't know what changes the most recent patch made or where the current metagame is at. The general consensus is that roach hydra isn't that great because the main dps of the army is too slow (hydra do mad dps, but squishy and slow). Hydras are great for drops and defense, but because of their slow speed off creep, they have minimal use in attacking. Idra has put them to use though, by getting overlord speed and then making a temporary fast creep highway when he attacks with them. Immortal Nobody C4D: Speedlings are detrimental to survival? I don't mean to be rude but you may want to look that word up. XD Something I learned about ZvZ though, getting +1 ranged for roaches lets them two shot lings instead of 3 shotting. So kinda like zealots.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:58 pm
Immortal Nobody The misconception I've witnessed is that Hydras suck. Maybe they do on paper but almost all my games use a Roach/Hydra army and it works well for me. But take whatever I say with a grain of salt as I haven't played in two months and don't know what changes the most recent patch made or where the current metagame is at. C4D: Speedlings are detrimental to survival? I don't mean to be rude but you may want to look that word up. Yeah, I done goofed, I meant determinate but y'know, my stupid caught up with me. In any case, it's not really that hydras suck persay it's that they have limited uses, problem is now that zergs know how to use infestors, they've made hydras really weak, fungals do so much damage to them, they're so slow off creep, they're vulnerable to banelings, they require roaches to soak damage, their only real benefit is that they can hit air and do fairly effective damage. But they don't further your tech path, they're fairly expensive, and not overall cost effective, they're dependant on good creep spread otherwise you wont be able move them around the map very well, and it seems like there are better chocies. Hydras have a place in ZvP, for specific uses against gateway and early game air compositions, and perhaps against a non-meching terran, but in ZvZ it just seems like a bad idea.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:25 pm
C4D Immortal Nobody The misconception I've witnessed is that Hydras suck. Maybe they do on paper but almost all my games use a Roach/Hydra army and it works well for me. But take whatever I say with a grain of salt as I haven't played in two months and don't know what changes the most recent patch made or where the current metagame is at. C4D: Speedlings are detrimental to survival? I don't mean to be rude but you may want to look that word up. Yeah, I done goofed, I meant determinate but y'know, my stupid caught up with me. In any case, it's not really that hydras suck persay it's that they have limited uses, problem is now that zergs know how to use infestors, they've made hydras really weak, fungals do so much damage to them, they're so slow off creep, they're vulnerable to banelings, they require roaches to soak damage, their only real benefit is that they can hit air and do fairly effective damage. But they don't further your tech path, they're fairly expensive, and not overall cost effective, they're dependant on good creep spread otherwise you wont be able move them around the map very well, and it seems like there are better chocies. Hydras have a place in ZvP, for specific uses against gateway and early game air compositions, and perhaps against a non-meching terran, but in ZvZ it just seems like a bad idea. Eh, I disagree. And remember I'm going off the metagame from two months ago. Roach/Infestor is a good all-purpose build but it's really freaking expensive, not to mention that once Infestors use up all their energy they're next to useless. I may lose more armies per game, but at least with Roach/Hydra I can remax with a 100% battle ready army faster, and in most cases before a lot of damage is done to my base(s). And I've personally never had a problem moving my Hydras across Tal'Darim Alter.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:08 am
Immortal Nobody C4D Immortal Nobody The misconception I've witnessed is that Hydras suck. Maybe they do on paper but almost all my games use a Roach/Hydra army and it works well for me. But take whatever I say with a grain of salt as I haven't played in two months and don't know what changes the most recent patch made or where the current metagame is at. C4D: Speedlings are detrimental to survival? I don't mean to be rude but you may want to look that word up. Yeah, I done goofed, I meant determinate but y'know, my stupid caught up with me. In any case, it's not really that hydras suck persay it's that they have limited uses, problem is now that zergs know how to use infestors, they've made hydras really weak, fungals do so much damage to them, they're so slow off creep, they're vulnerable to banelings, they require roaches to soak damage, their only real benefit is that they can hit air and do fairly effective damage. But they don't further your tech path, they're fairly expensive, and not overall cost effective, they're dependant on good creep spread otherwise you wont be able move them around the map very well, and it seems like there are better chocies. Hydras have a place in ZvP, for specific uses against gateway and early game air compositions, and perhaps against a non-meching terran, but in ZvZ it just seems like a bad idea. Eh, I disagree. And remember I'm going off the metagame from two months ago. Roach/Infestor is a good all-purpose build but it's really freaking expensive, not to mention that once Infestors use up all their energy they're next to useless. I may lose more armies per game, but at least with Roach/Hydra I can remax with a 100% battle ready army faster, and in most cases before a lot of damage is done to my base(s). And I've personally never had a problem moving my Hydras across Tal'Darim Alter. I've seen your creep spread, so it's not surprising that you can find an effective use for hydras, as you pretty good at painting the map at the decent rate. The thing is, like you said, you're going to lose more armies per game, in order to win that means you require a better economy, so if your opponent is doing a better composition, with the use of infestors, some banelings, roaches and I dunno some sort of air tech or something, they will be more effective on their spending. Even economy against even economy you're probably going to lose, which means now you're relying on your opponent to be terrible. Infestors I believe are designed to be in every mid to late composition. The infestation pit is required for further tech, and for the late game upgrades, so you might as well make use of it by making a bunch of infestors as well, and once out they are terribly strong against things like hydras. In the end it all comes down to unit control, positioning, economy, upgrades and everything else, but hydras in general are just not the right unit to use in most ZvZ match ups, simply due to lack of mobility, and far too easy to kill.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:25 pm
Quote: The misconception I've witnessed is that Hydras suck. Maybe they do on paper but almost all my games use a Roach/Hydra army and it works well for me. But take whatever I say with a grain of salt as I haven't played in two months and don't know what changes the most recent patch made or where the current metagame is at. Quote: The general consensus is that roach hydra isn't that great because the main dps of the army is too slow (hydra do mad dps, but squishy and slow). Hydras are great for drops and defense, but because of their slow speed off creep, they have minimal use in attacking. This is exactly why I can't wait for HOTS. Gunna be such a shift in the metagame of each matchup and with new units added in, it'll be sure to be fun to figure out what new fun stuff there is to do xd
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:41 pm
MaroonApple Quote: The misconception I've witnessed is that Hydras suck. Maybe they do on paper but almost all my games use a Roach/Hydra army and it works well for me. But take whatever I say with a grain of salt as I haven't played in two months and don't know what changes the most recent patch made or where the current metagame is at. Quote: The general consensus is that roach hydra isn't that great because the main dps of the army is too slow (hydra do mad dps, but squishy and slow). Hydras are great for drops and defense, but because of their slow speed off creep, they have minimal use in attacking. This is exactly why I can't wait for HOTS. Gunna be such a shift in the metagame of each matchup and with new units added in, it'll be sure to be fun to figure out what new fun stuff there is to do xd In general, it feels toss was shafted. The only thing I really like is giving the nexus recall and phase cannons. Toss air is still kinda gimp, and other races are getting good counters to toss specific things. If the viper grab stays past beta, I have little faith in blizzard anymore. That is WAAAAAY too game changing considering toss is sorta rules by timings, and getting a key units grabbed OUT of position with nothing I can really do about it is really bad for toss. Terran is getting warhound, does extra vs air light (as if phoenixes were that good in pvt outside of specifics) and extra vs mech. A vast majority of toss is mechanical... Battle Hellion... Nuff said. New thor is a-move extravaganza. Shredder is just really good. Zerg is getting burrow charge to get in range easily, viper is a really good counter to most toss things with the cloud and grab. Meanwhile, we're losing mothership AND carrier, getting a placebo air ship for a late game problem that won't really fix mass muta (he can just, you know, avoid the slow thing), and the air harassment is ok at best, but it costs way too much to ride on a maybe... Replicant is a joke. They acknowledge that protoss has problems countering certain things, so instead of giving them the counters, they are forcing us to rely on other races as a crutch. I want a real protoss unit to handle my issues. If I wanted infestors, I would play zerg. If I wanted banshees, I'd play terran. I want PROTOSS units. Besides, there is no way fungal storm is getting past beta... =/ Just my 2cents on hots expo. D=
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:51 pm
i'm gonna miss my carriers, people never expect them and throwing in 1 or two for good measure always helps 3nodding . but as zerg i just feel the ultra is underloved sad
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reply
