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 Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:29 pm
After the Ring Rebalance thread, it seems only fair that we open up discussion on rebalancing Ring Sets, as well. I have a few thoughts for this, personally, but I haven't really worked on anything too specific - that is to say, there's still plenty of room for feedback. wink
1.) Intuitive Sets - Demons aren't notable for using Teflon. Apart from winning the occasional proverbial footrace, Turtles aren't notable Athletes. I understand the reasons why these changes were made, but they are patently nonsensical. If there is such a way that Rings and Sets can be balanced to allow the more sensible combinations, it would be immensely preferrable.
2.) Synergy - Currently, sets facilitate synergy; each gives a boost in a relevant stat, when combined. The issue here is that the game lacks ways to reward synergy; and that by the time you've got a whole Set assembled, it's a little late to try adding extra synergy on top of it. In short, I think Sets should be rewarding players who do synergise, rather than trying to help them synergise, themselves.
My favourite example: have the Ninja Set offer a short-term Accuracy buff whenever the wearer Dodges an attack. Players who synergise by focusing on Dodge and fast attacks will be able to make very good use of this ability. What's more, it provides a unique, Ninja-esque ability, that really sells the theme the Set is based on.
The point is, though: rather than simply stacking more buffs on top, Sets really ought to be giving players a reason to stack buffs.
3. Usability - This is actually something that occured to me very recently. I've stated before that I feel the Ring system is intended to be an analogue to Gaia's avatar system; Ring Sets, then, are an analogue to item sets. If you wear every item in a pirate-themed set, you're obviously a Pirate - however, when you remove on of those items, is the effect really lost?
Essentially, I'm wondering if it might be worthwhile to scale Set bonuses, based on the number of relevant Rings worn. Having the Set bonus active at a reduced rate for wearing 3 or even 2 rings from the set (on one hand, still), rather than requiring all 4, would dodge issues of sets having a 'useless' ring (even situationally) and would potentially encourage players to try new rings (currently, I consider completing a set if I have 3 of the 4 rings involved; to produce that effect with only 1 or 2 rings involved, also, would be rather interesting).
I'm not sure if I'd really be willing to reward wearing 2 rings of a set; with 8 slots, that would allow for 4 different Sets at once. I'd probably consider allowing 3-ring sets to take effect, at 50% effectiveness, or-so. That's still 3 rings for a 50% effect, and 4 rings for 100% - making the full set much more efficient, in terms of bonuses. Still, there are players and situations where using 3-ring sets may be advantageous, or simply more expressive, and I think it would boost the popularity of sets considerably, on its own.
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I'm sure there are other suggestions I've seen and forgotten; and surely others I've simply never heard. Again, this thread is primarily about opening the discussion of what Ring Sets could, should, and want to be - so any input in any of those regards would be reasonable... 3nodding
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:29 pm
Also, as an extension to both the first and second points - the new, synergy-rewarding abilities ought to make sense. Chefs aren't known for being sprightly. Pranksters aren't known for being hardy. It's nice if the abilities synergise with the elements of the set, but it would be nicer if they did so in a way that made sense for the theme. whee
Angel - Obviously, Angels on Gaia are Lucky. I won't argue with that, but we might change just how it functions, to avoid strict competition with other Luck boosts.
Athlete - Athletes are... Healthy, I take it? Is that what Debuff Resistance is showing? Seeing how underused the stat is, it might be fair to keep it; but there may well be other ways to express the sentiment.
Chef - Chefs don't Dodge things; at least not notably. The best thing I can think of for a Set bonus would be 'eating' enemies as you kill them; that is, healing a bit when you deal the killing blow. Nothing huge, but with a set as defensively-minded as this one (Meat, Teflon, and Pot Lid), it might prove a little relevant.
Demon - They say Demons do Regen; again, their fiction, can't argue. Not precisely what you'd expect from it, though, so we can probably find something more intuitive.
Medic - I'd like to avoid simple 'Makes X better' abilities, or Medic would obviously be just making Healing more effective. Perhaps having it grant a small 'Critical Heal' chance, which could either increase Healing, or grant Stamina (or a small buff, or something) alongside.
Ninja - I've already stated my preference for this one; significant Accuracy boost for about 3 seconds, each time you Dodge. With sufficient Dodge and proper mobbing tactics, you might even be able to keep it active constantly.
Pirate - Plundering feels about right, but that seems to step on the Angel Set's toes. Perhaps have one affect Loot items, and the other affect Gold (or Orbs, or Recipes)? I'd like them a little more distinct, honestly (and frankly I don't like added drops as a Set bonus at all), so any suggestions are welcomed. We've got Pirates around here, don't we? whee
Prankster - Practical jokes have the same effect as eating meat, and being someone's sweetheart - I guess Health is a function of jovialty? Perhaps something that triggers on successful use of Crowd Control or Debuffs?
Shaman - To be honest, it's hard to say what seems 'intuitive' for a Shaman to do. Perhaps if we'd like to retain the Stamina-type focus, it could be a Stamina-counterpart of Chef, regaining Stamina from defeated enemies? That sounds mystical, right? xp
Space Trooper - I like their being good at shooting things - that works fine, to me. I'd probably switch from an Accuracy bonus, though, to rewarding Accuracy - extra damage on Criticals, or some such. Or do we have any more... Futuristic ideas?
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:40 pm
The idea that the very restrictions behind set should be altered is good on my book so far. I seriously hate nonsensical sets the most, even if I have to force myself to live with it. I would rather take a ring happening to be in three sets than making a bunch of others be in a set that doesn't fit for either reason.
That synergy is the most important issue though. I feel that ninja set is the only one with actual levels of synergy now (Ghost/Shuriken's Debuff on dodge boost? Mantis and Shuriken, fast attacks, on a Accurarcy boost? Divinity which let's you regen quick attacks even while running around? Sign me up!) with chef a very close relative. The Medic set is the most egregious example against synergy, because it does it right with the rings, and then completely goes to hell with the set bonus. Why would anyone wander around with it for the supposed speed boost, when replacing adrenaline/defib with coyote would give you a better boost and luck on top of it? And speaking of adrenaline itself, what does hurting the enemy better have to do with healing? (It does with support though, so it's a minor thing)
Only thing to beat it in wall-banging properties was the old Space Trooper AKA: Sumo Wrestler Sharpshooter - which had a weight bonus on top of my density, and my density on RR4 completely voided the need for more weight. Oh and had only ranged rings. Even a bonus out of nowhere is seemingly better than one that is unnecessary.
Anyways, since this is a popular effect: remove current medic bonus, add "chance of giving a 3 second "Cure Effect" to a healed player". I mean, who would ditch a medic after that?
And if diagnose ever got the effect instead first, because that is how the suggestion usually goes, just make the set increase the effect further up to a guaranteed occurrence with rage ranks. Diagnose becomes good, but even better with the set, and the other rings are likely healing ones as well.
Also, I'm still wondering about a Ghi thread... THe only real problem with Ghi is how we could get a better idea of how it's developing, since the current is a blindfold.
Some trivia, if you start a new account and leave the Ghi EXP bar open, it won't update itself. You have to close it and open again to check progress. The whole thing is meant to be background, and that's annoying.
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:31 pm
DrQuint Also, I'm still wondering about a Ghi thread... THe only real problem with Ghi is how we could get a better idea of how it's developing, since the current is a blindfold. Some trivia, if you start a new account and leave the Ghi EXP bar open, it won't update itself. You have to close it and open again to check progress. The whole thing is meant to be background, and that's annoying.
While it deserves its own thread, my personal least favourite part of the G'hi system is that it doesn't do anything. I mean, honestly; it makes players who have been around longer stronger than ones who haven't. This, in turn, has two results: 1.) Endgame players stay in the game to collect the extra bonuses; not even really grinding, though, since there's no way to speed your progress. And that's if they care, since they're already technically finished. And, 2.) Older players have an easier time in low-level areas than true newbies. Since most low-level areas also have relatively lower difficulty, though, and older players are naturally more familiar with the game, I don't see why we'd even need this.
I'll stop myself from writing up how we need to fix it, since this isn't really the place, but it's a system that's not doing what you'd expect it to - and I think obscurity is actually one of the smaller issues it has, at this point... whee
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 3:52 pm
Red Kutai DrQuint Also, I'm still wondering about a Ghi thread... THe only real problem with Ghi is how we could get a better idea of how it's developing, since the current is a blindfold. Some trivia, if you start a new account and leave the Ghi EXP bar open, it won't update itself. You have to close it and open again to check progress. The whole thing is meant to be background, and that's annoying.
While it deserves its own thread, my personal least favourite part of the G'hi system is that it doesn't do anything. I mean, honestly; it makes players who have been around longer stronger than ones who haven't. This, in turn, has two results: 1.) Endgame players stay in the game to collect the extra bonuses; not even really grinding, though, since there's no way to speed your progress. And that's if they care, since they're already technically finished. And, 2.) Older players have an easier time in low-level areas than true newbies. Since most low-level areas also have relatively lower difficulty, though, and older players are naturally more familiar with the game, I don't see why we'd even need this.
I'll stop myself from writing up how we need to fix it, since this isn't really the place, but it's a system that's not doing what you'd expect it to - and I think obscurity is actually one of the smaller issues it has, at this point... whee
I said "only" .-. But if you think that's the minor issue emotion_awesome I want to know how far is and fast the next Ghi boost is coming. It annoys me having to just not care about it for no reason, albeit I'm missing only 2 and I never really bother with it. A number would be nice.
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:44 pm
Theme/gameplay clash, gameplay should prevail: it's primordial and far less flexible.
In other words, get working sets/rings then worry about putting a name on them xo.oP
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Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:14 pm
gataka Theme/gameplay clash, gameplay should prevail: it's primordial and far less flexible. In other words, get working sets/rings then worry about putting a name on them x o.oP What if we can't make enough groups of working sets? Changing their names or outright making new ones is not off my list you know... twisted I just held off suggesting "adding more" because of the obvious response regarding having too many and making accidental ones. I'm holding on answering Red Kutai's list of effects just yet. I ain't got enough to say on most. A question, what is your feelings on the concept of chaining? Like say: Angel Set: Kill 20(?) monsters of the same type in a row - get extra 5(?) times regular gold drop from that enemy. Pirate Set: Kill 100(?) monsters of the same type in a row - get extra 3 loot drops(?) +a recipe(?) from that enemy. Cue someone activeless in a crew killing 20 of the last stage of Labtech X AND NOTHING ELSE edit: Oh, and of course... Sets that mess with drops are actually independent from the actual rings. So as long as the rings make sense the same way the effect makes sense in name, then everything is fine disregarding gameplay.... Right? ...Right? xp Yeah, not really. It'd be nice not sticking the sets with say... 2 debuffs a buff and defib, something to keep in mind across the board. Other than that, people ought to pick them anyways.
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:23 am
gataka Theme/gameplay clash, gameplay should prevail: it's primordial and far less flexible. In other words, get working sets/rings then worry about putting a name on them x o.oP
It's primordial in this instance, which I think is a mistake. This game shows a lot of top-down design influence, and I think a huge turning point was when they decided they needed to give that up, for game balance. They didn't (and don't), and I'd like to see that error repaired.
Besides, gameplay is only less flexible if the designer holds it to be - if you're willing to change gameplay to fit flavour, then gameplay is entirely mutable. And inasfar as gameplay is failing more than flavour ever was, I think it's perfectly fair to latch on to the working half, and design around it...
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EDIT:
DrQuint A question, what is your feelings on the concept of chaining? Like say: Angel Set: Kill 20(?) monsters of the same type in a row - get extra 5(?) times regular gold drop from that enemy. Pirate Set: Kill 100(?) monsters of the same type in a row - get extra 3 loot drops(?) +a recipe(?) from that enemy.
Chains - and long ones, in particular - seem decidedly non-casual, to me. An ability that always does nothing for 99 kills seems very unattractive - is there some advantage over simply making these occur at a given rate, with each kill? Yes, it will still regularly go 99 kills without occuring, but each of those 99 kills still has a chance (read: "tension, excitement, drama" ) of having added worth. With the 'chained' version, even the added value is less exciting, being predictable and easy to 'take for granted'.
That is to say, they don't seem like a fun concept to me; and I'm not sure why we'd want them. Do feel free to intercede, though, if I'm treating the concept unfairly... sweatdrop
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:58 am
Red Kutai That is to say, they don't seem like a fun concept to me; and I'm not sure why we'd want them. Do feel free to intercede, though, if I'm treating the concept unfairly... sweatdrop
It's grinding. Using that term gets the point across better. What is there to say? I personally dislike long grinds, reason why I never got any 5k badge on purpose. But the fact, the system exists and is relatively popular made me have to ask that anyways. And I have to defend it regardless, because I do feel that it's worth not shooting down. I don't think that predictability takes anything away from chains. In fact, I think that anyone in the mindset of starting a grind will feel the exact opposite: Knowing when you get the bonus will give you something to look forward to and to work for. And knowing that there is an "additional" reward for doing something might both incentive or convince you to do it in the first place. At least, that was the way I felt about repeatable quests way back. It was 4 extra orbs from Brody's quest for every 20 anchor bugs I'd kill. I could have grinded something else entirely wasn't for Brody, but that boost was something I needed and I had guarantees of getting. The only way to really add that tension the way you're naming them would be if there was a visual or audible cue as to what just happened. Even when we have 40+ luck, all of it is being worked in the background, and the fact it is there as something you keep in mind that you are experiencing, but that you can't actually feel experiencing unless you are paying an abnormal amount of attention (Looking at the quite variable gold drop amounts or noticing that you got 30 loot that hour instead of 25 loot) Why we'd want them? Well, I don't (yet - stupid alchemy pull your s**t together), but anyone starting a farming spree would likely do.
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:54 am
DrQuint It's grinding. Using that term gets the point across better. What is there to say?
Well, that's just it, I suppose - while I understand that players will do it, I don't really support grinding without very good reasons therefor; so I suppose it's predictable of me, not to be keen on this. sweatdrop
Almost-entirely-unrelated curiosity: I recall suggesting that the game track the number of kills for each enemy, each day - back when we were initially discussing the potential gold nerf - and decreasing gold drops by a relative amount. Would it be reasonable to inversely increase loot/recipe drop rates? Essentially, make 'casual farming' gold-based, while 'dedicated farming' is item-based. This could keep the base drop rates for Epics and loot relatively low, as well, making the resultant items even more valuable. Completely tangential, but the concept of 'chaining' kills to good effect brought the thought to mind...
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:11 am
Red Kutai Almost-entirely-unrelated curiosity: I recall suggesting that the game track the number of kills for each enemy, each day - back when we were initially discussing the potential gold nerf - and decreasing gold drops by a relative amount. Would it be reasonable to inversely increase loot/recipe drop rates? Essentially, make 'casual farming' gold-based, while 'dedicated farming' is item-based. This could keep the base drop rates for Epics and loot relatively low, as well, making the resultant items even more valuable. Completely tangential, but the concept of 'chaining' kills to good effect brought the thought to mind...
I remember that line of discussion. Made me think of something prior to it. Something related to leader-boards and such? Making a more competitive environment similar to fishing's for those that would bother? Show everyone who realy is this weeks tiny farmer? (and make bots more easily apparent as well) Man, we need to keep all these ideas together in some pl- Oh you already did that. The idea goes along with the same concept of chaining, but more adapted to what you were saying before. It's rewarding players for doing the same task for long enough (with allowed interruptions) and the bonus is more constant and accounted for with every kill. It goes without saying that, as it is, it's a bit weird to add that, because the curve is now a cliff and it's not applied to particular enemies or areas but to everything instead, so the loot boost would also come from in leap form and affect everything at once, and the people looking for loot would also have to break the gold barrier before getting the bonus on loot drop, as opposed to getting it to slowly happen. STILL I'm not saying that it shouldn't be done. Gaia's concern, conspiracies aside, is that the curve cliff fights inflation, and adding more items to the economy is a deflationary action on the market by concept. Unless the item is completely ignored. Regardless it'd have another effect, giving interest for people to play zOMG! even after the gold cap is hit. You can farm gold at first and items later. Gives a special meaning to the loot and recipes if the drop rate is decreased compared to now until after the boost is hit. ... hmmm, we'll have to go back to ringsets. Hopefully anyone can bring a more decent idea for this and the other sets.
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Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:35 am
DrQuint [It goes without saying that, as it is, it's a bit weird to add that, because the curve is now a cliff and it's not applied to particular enemies or areas but to everything instead, so the loot boost would also come from in leap form and affect everything at once, and the people looking for loot would also have to break the gold barrier before getting the bonus on loot drop, as opposed to getting it to slowly happen.
I'm not sure if it's really Gaia's opinion, but I still see the current curve as a temporary fix. It's inelegant, unnatural, and sends completely the wrong message ("You're nerfed! Stop playing, now!" ). Managing gold drops and other rewards is an important part of the game, and it deserves actual development time being allotted to it; not just a frantic this-must-be-fixed-now slash in output. whee
So, yes, I still consider it important to revise the current situation to work a little more naturally, and I think switching between gold- and item-based rewards for 'chained' kills would be one good way to do that; ensuring that the short-term rewards are in a more liquid form, while keeping the really valuable rewards for those players who invest more time...
EDIT: Yes, right. Back to Ring Sets... redface
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Atrash the Squidmonger Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:03 pm
Red Kutai
Also, as an extension to both the first and second points - the new, synergy-rewarding abilities ought to make sense. Chefs aren't known for being sprightly. Pranksters aren't known for being hardy. It's nice if the abilities synergise with the elements of the set, but it would be nicer if they did so in a way that made sense for the theme. whee
Angel - Obviously, Angels on Gaia are Lucky. I won't argue with that, but we might change just how it functions, to avoid strict competition with other Luck boosts.
Athlete - Athletes are... Healthy, I take it? Is that what Debuff Resistance is showing? Seeing how underused the stat is, it might be fair to keep it; but there may well be other ways to express the sentiment.
Chef - Chefs don't Dodge things; at least not notably. The best thing I can think of for a Set bonus would be 'eating' enemies as you kill them; that is, healing a bit when you deal the killing blow. Nothing huge, but with a set as defensively-minded as this one (Meat, Teflon, and Pot Lid), it might prove a little relevant.
Demon - They say Demons do Regen; again, their fiction, can't argue. Not precisely what you'd expect from it, though, so we can probably find something more intuitive.
Medic - I'd like to avoid simple 'Makes X better' abilities, or Medic would obviously be just making Healing more effective. Perhaps having it grant a small 'Critical Heal' chance, which could either increase Healing, or grant Stamina (or a small buff, or something) alongside.
Ninja - I've already stated my preference for this one; significant Accuracy boost for about 3 seconds, each time you Dodge. With sufficient Dodge and proper mobbing tactics, you might even be able to keep it active constantly.
Pirate - Plundering feels about right, but that seems to step on the Angel Set's toes. Perhaps have one affect Loot items, and the other affect Gold (or Orbs, or Recipes)? I'd like them a little more distinct, honestly (and frankly I don't like added drops as a Set bonus at all), so any suggestions are welcomed. We've got Pirates around here, don't we? whee
Prankster - Practical jokes have the same effect as eating meat, and being someone's sweetheart - I guess Health is a function of jovialty? Perhaps something that triggers on successful use of Crowd Control or Debuffs?
Shaman - To be honest, it's hard to say what seems 'intuitive' for a Shaman to do. Perhaps if we'd like to retain the Stamina-type focus, it could be a Stamina-counterpart of Chef, regaining Stamina from defeated enemies? That sounds mystical, right? xp
Space Trooper - I like their being good at shooting things - that works fine, to me. I'd probably switch from an Accuracy bonus, though, to rewarding Accuracy - extra damage on Criticals, or some such. Or do we have any more... Futuristic ideas?
Angel - perhaps extra luck added to the buff bonuses (so it would spread crew wide [non-stackable, of course] and only come be around when buffed)? Medic - A health bonus (or a health regen bonus) could be nice and fitting with Medics, or perhaps a decrease in Hate/Aggro (that would get medic types to flock to it)? Some kind of improved healing would always work, though - preferably something different than just increasing healing. Maybe it randomly adds some health regen (like a 1 minute long Healing Halo style boost) to the target when the "critical heal" happens, or just a little bit extra max health? Athletes - Debuff resistance is fitting and sort of fits with the rings. Footspeed would be an obvious choice, but I'm not sure how useful it would actually be to Athletes (Bump, Taunt and Fitness aren't really benefited by a faster player). Armor of some kind would make sense, but there might be too many things giving away various armor bonuses. Maybe give them a Dodge based bonus (reflexes and all that - maybe a better dodge after landing each hit, due to their good training)? A plain Meat style health bonus (the Prankster Set's old bonus) would also work well - it could be changed to be based on G'hi, critical hits, or something like that too if we needed to mix it up a little. Pirates - ... hmm. Maybe just increased protection or willpower (indomitable spirit, rum, just being crazy...) for short periods after attacks? Pranksters - Maybe give footspeed to these guys - they need the ability to get in and out of situations quickly (and gameplay-wise, they use ranged weapons, a speed debuff, and a speed buff). Another potential trait would be increased Hate gain, but I can't think of a good way to make that a nice positive effect - especially since they aren't really that tank-ish of a set. Having 2 or 3 ring "base" ringsets would be nice. You'd just need to use the various rings in the set - having all 4 rings would increase the effectiveness to normal ring set levels, and using the rings more would perhaps also increase the effectiveness of the bonuses (sort of like filling up G'hi). What would be good rings for the ringsets, while we're at it (or effects for rings that maybe stylistically fit with the ringset, but don't actually fit in that well - Adrenaline, for example)? What about a bonus to weight or willpower just after making an attack (maybe for Athlete or Pirate)?
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Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:46 pm
Atrash the Squidmonger Angel - perhaps extra luck added to the buff bonuses (so it would spread crew wide [non-stackable, of course] and only come be around when buffed)? Medic - A health bonus (or a health regen bonus) could be nice and fitting with Medics, or perhaps a decrease in Hate/Aggro (that would get medic types to flock to it)? Some kind of improved healing would always work, though - preferably something different than just increasing healing. Maybe it randomly adds some health regen (like a 1 minute long Healing Halo style boost) to the target when the "critical heal" happens, or just a little bit extra max health? Athletes - Debuff resistance is fitting and sort of fits with the rings. Footspeed would be an obvious choice, but I'm not sure how useful it would actually be to Athletes (Bump, Taunt and Fitness aren't really benefited by a faster player). Armor of some kind would make sense, but there might be too many things giving away various armor bonuses. Maybe give them a Dodge based bonus (reflexes and all that - maybe a better dodge after landing each hit, due to their good training)? A plain Meat style health bonus (the Prankster Set's old bonus) would also work well - it could be changed to be based on G'hi, critical hits, or something like that too if we needed to mix it up a little. Pirates - ... hmm. Maybe just increased protection or willpower (indomitable spirit, rum, just being crazy...) for short periods after attacks? Pranksters - Maybe give footspeed to these guys - they need the ability to get in and out of situations quickly (and gameplay-wise, they use ranged weapons, a speed debuff, and a speed buff). Another potential trait would be increased Hate gain, but I can't think of a good way to make that a nice positive effect - especially since they aren't really that tank-ish of a set. Having 2 or 3 ring "base" ringsets would be nice. You'd just need to use the various rings in the set - having all 4 rings would increase the effectiveness to normal ring set levels, and using the rings more would perhaps also increase the effectiveness of the bonuses (sort of like filling up G'hi). What would be good rings for the ringsets, while we're at it (or effects for rings that maybe stylistically fit with the ringset, but don't actually fit in that well - Adrenaline, for example)? What about a bonus to weight or willpower just after making an attack (maybe for Athlete or Pirate)?
Well, part of the premise is that I wanted these to reward doing 'in-theme' things, rather than wanting to further facilitate the theme. Simple buff effects feel more like part of the specialisation, than a reward for it. Personally, I like these being 'triggered' effects, where the trigger is something you can affect through specialisation (like Dodging for Ninjas). At least, that would be ideal.
Angel - Affixing it to buffs doesn't do much, as I say it - when are players that carry buffs not buffed, after all? That makes it essentially passive, which is kinda what we're hoping to avoid. Of course, what 'Angels' do, specifically, that we could trigger an effect on... Well, I haven't a clue. sweatdrop
Medic - Sticking to the theme of triggered effects that can be encouraged by specialisation, Medics really seem to want an effect that triggers when you Heal. The question, I suspect, is what effect should they be gaining on top of healing.
Athletes - Again, the question falls to 'What do Athletes do?', that we could trigger an effect on. Since Athletes should be 'healthy', perhaps something that triggers on resisting CC?
Pirate - Pirates... Plunder. Pillage. Drink? Adding a chance to 'steal' loot or gold while attacking (and not necessarily just when actually defeating enemies) might make sense, but I'd like to avoid triggers based solely on attacking; partially because this would encourage Pirates to use fast attacks, which doesn't feel particularly piratical (the old Pirate set carried Hack and Slash, which are relatively slow).
Prankster - Footspeed does make sense, triggered on something prank-like? I like the idea of successful CC activating it (that's tricky, yes?), but that should require the set to have at least one CC ring in it; and, ideally, for multiple CC rings to not prove completely redundant. whee Also, Footspeed isn't the most useful after incapacitating your enemies, so there's a huge lack of synergy in effects, there... gonk
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Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:03 am
Red Kutai
3. Usability - This is actually something that occured to me very recently. I've stated before that I feel the Ring system is intended to be an analogue to Gaia's avatar system; Ring Sets, then, are an analogue to item sets. If you wear every item in a pirate-themed set, you're obviously a Pirate - however, when you remove one of those items, is the effect really lost?
Essentially, I'm wondering if it might be worthwhile to scale Set bonuses, based on the number of relevant Rings worn. Having the Set bonus active at a reduced rate for wearing 3 or even 2 rings from the set (on one hand, still), rather than requiring all 4, would dodge issues of sets having a 'useless' ring (even situationally) and would potentially encourage players to try new rings (currently, I consider completing a set if I have 3 of the 4 rings involved; to produce that effect with only 1 or 2 rings involved, also, would be rather interesting).
I'm not sure if I'd really be willing to reward wearing 2 rings of a set; with 8 slots, that would allow for 4 different Sets at once. I'd probably consider allowing 3-ring sets to take effect, at 50% effectiveness, or-so. That's still 3 rings for a 50% effect, and 4 rings for 100% - making the full set much more efficient, in terms of bonuses. Still, there are players and situations where using 3-ring sets may be advantageous, or simply more expressive, and I think it would boost the popularity of sets considerably, on its own.
This idea is an interesting one to me. Interesting in a good way. For me personally, I've always known sets existed, but I never was a fan of them. I developed a certain mixture of rings and buffs that worked for whatever I did (granted, it changed a little based on the task, but essentially my core rings stay the same). Having to completely change four rings to get a bonus just wasn't, and isn't, worth it for me. For that reason, ring sets have been a feature that I ignore & in my mind, zOMG should be encouraging people to utilize the features and bonuses in game. I am definitely fond of the idea of sets being 3 rings instead of four. With a three-ring set, a person could only carry up to two sets, so they couldn't just stack sets. I also think a three-ring set adds an element of personalization. "If you wear every item in a pirate-themed set, you're obviously a Pirate - however, when you remove one of those items, is the effect really lost?" It's basically the same concept, except a little flipped. If a person is dressed like a pirate, but has one extra item, are they still dressed like a pirate? I say yes. Yes, you have your core-three rings, but your fourth ring on that hand is really up to you. The fourth ring is that extra item per say. ----- Switching gears a little bit... I think the Ring Sets are slightly ignored/neglected by the devs. Whether or not it's because they aren't really used that much (from what I can tell at least), I don't know. Even though there are eleven (twelve?) sets, I wouldn't even consider using half of them. For this reason, it feels like there aren't a lot to choose from. If ring sets were compromised of three rings, it would open the door to more combinations and more sets/bonuses to choose from and the bonuses could have more focus and specificity to them. (And they could potentially get cooler names!) Rings // Cool Name // Effects>Water Balloon, Hornet Nest, Hunter's Bow // Projectile Motion // Increased range on all rings. >Density, Duct Tape, Gumshoe // Stuck in Place // Enemies are stuck in your web (or duct tape) for longer periods of time. >Fitness, Integrity, Sugar Rush // Passive Aggressive // Increased chances that an enemy will flee! They seem not to like you for some reason... >Hack, Slash, Mantis // Slaughterhouse-Five // Increased chance of critical hits. >Fortune's Favor, Coyote, Divinity // One Lucky Mofo // Increased chances that good things will happen! (Like critical hits, dodges, etc. However, it would be smaller bonuses for all of those things, as opposed to with the last one where there would be a larger bonus in that one category.) I'm bad at coming up with specifics. I'm a conceptual person. I hope you all get the gist though.
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