|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:02 pm
I've had a document sitting untouched for some time with possibilities for Ring rebalances - most of which started on the Forums. Rather than consolidating them somewhere invisible, however, I think it would make more sense to invite a little feedback. sweatdrop
----
Taunt Stamina Cost: 11.11 Cooldown: 30 seconds Range: Short Resets the targets' Hate list values to 1 RR1 -> 400 Hate + AoE RR2 -> 500 Hate + AoE RR3 -> 750 Hate + AoE RR4 -> 1000 Hate + AoE
Originating here, this version of Taunt was intended to always be able to take Aggro, but is intentionally poor at holding it.
----
Hornet's Nest Stamina Cost: 6.67 Cooldown: 6 seconds Range: Long RR1 -> 200 (10 * 20) Damage RR2 -> 300 (10 * 30) Damage RR3 -> 350 (10 * 35) Damage + AoE RR4 -> 400 (10 * 40) Damage + AoE
This is intended to more accurately capture the essence of a Hornet's Nest, as well as to provide a legitimate 'poison' effect which zOMG! lacks.
In my experience with stinging insects (an experience I consider myself unfortunate to possess), they don't actually spread out to attack - they attack the one 'threat' they perceive, repeatedly. While it's acceptable to AoE at higher Rage Ranks (as many attacks do), I'd rather maintain the lower Ranks focused around a singular 'poison' effect. The ring is intentionally more effective against smaller groups of tougher enemies, and the single-target nature reinforces that.
The small damage-per-tick is intended to emulate a sting, so rather than increasing damage per tick, higher Rage Ranks simply extend the condition. It would be possible to include a small Fear effect as well, but since the ring's most obvious use is going to be used against bosses, that would be largely irrelevant. Still, when it is used against normal enemies, you'll want to ignore those enemies for the duration of the effect (to maximise the damage it deals), and Fear does reinforce that tactic.
----
Shark Attack Stamina Cost: 5.56 Cooldown: 5 seconds Range: Poor RR1 -> 180-220 Damage (200 Damage) RR2 -> 220-280 Damage (250 Damage) RR3 -> 280-360 Damage (320 Damage) RR4 -> 360-460 Damage (400 Damage)
The damage is intentionally set such that the minimum damage visible from one hit of Shark Attack is higher than the maximum apparent damage of any other ring. That is, Shark Attack will (almost) always deal more immediate damage-per-hit than any other Ring. If players are going to say it deals "good damage" no matter what, it ought to.
EDIT: Coming back to this, the DpS is rather higher than I'd realised at first - not quite what I was intending. Perhaps these numbers came up while I was toying with Shark Attack being a 6-second attack, instead; still, I'd like to retain the damage fairly high, but it's liable to be reduced a tad, from here.
----
Adrenaline Stamina Cost: 11.11 Cooldown: (120 / CL) seconds Range: Medium Target: Ally Only RR1 -> 8-12 Stamina Restored (10 Stamina Restored) RR2 -> 11-17 Stamina Restored (14 Stamina Restored) RR3 -> 13-21 Stamina Restored (17 Stamina Restored) RR4 -> 15-25 Stamina Restored (20 Stamina Restored)
The balance on this is probably one of the iffiest of any of these; because, honestly, I don't know how much Stamina-granting would be completely broken, and I tried to err on the side of caution. RR1 grants less Stamina than it costs, while each additional Rage Rank converts Rage to Stamina.
I was considering the possibility of having Cooldown values vary by CL, for rings were other CL-scaling effects didn't fit. I know there are some disagreements about whether time-based values should be scalable at all, though, so I'm open to alternatives.
EDIT: Alright, time for maths: Hack grants about 1.8 Damage per Rage, at RR2. This Ring profits about 0.09 Stamina per Rage, at RR2. Hack deals about 40.5 Damage, per Stamina. So:
0.09 Stamina/Rage * 40.5 Damage/Stamina = ~3.6
So, for extended battles, your crew would actually be better off trading in your Rage for Stamina, rather than using it directly. Of course, that bonus does come at the cost of an extra ring slot, so perhaps it's fair enough.
----
Knife Sharpen Stamina Cost: 11.11 Cooldown: 15 seconds Duration: 120 seconds Range: Medium Target: Self or Ally RR1 -> 25% Damage Pool (Pool Size: 750) RR2 -> 35% Damage Pool (Pool Size: 1000) RR3 -> 40% Damage Pool (Pool Size: 1500) RR4 -> 50% Damage Pool (Pool Size: 2500)
New terminology here,but it's based on the concept of Armor Pool. Essentially, you sharpen your 'knives', causing you to deal more damage with each attack - however, after a certain amount of damage dealt, the 'knives' lose their edge.
The duration I had listed in my document seems a lot larger than I think is necessary - anything short of a single-target Fire Rain or (current) Hornet's Nest would easily deal even the 1,666 Damage necessary to cap out at RR4 alone. I don't think it'd be unreasonable to cut the duration in half or more, to require multiple attacks to get the full effect.
----
Teflon Spray Stamina Cost: 11.11 Cooldown: 15 seconds Duration: (90 * CL) seconds Range: Medium Target: Self or Ally RR1 -> 15% Persistent Armor + 5% Debuff Resistance + AoE RR2 -> 15% Persistent Armor + 15% Debuff Resistance + AoE RR3 -> 15% Persistent Armor + 25% Debuff Resistance + AoE RR4 -> 15% Persistent Armor + 35% Debuff Resistance + AoE
The game lacks sources of Debuff Resistance. Teflon keeps things from sticking.
Since the game lacks useful sources of Debuff Resistance, I can't say I haveany clue what the values on this effect should be. Input would be more than welcomed, naturally.
This ring also carries a scaled buff duration, which I've proposed for all otherwise non-scaling Rings; and I've retained the Crew-wide AoE that is customary among current buffs. Personally, I tend to think of keeping the three lesser Armor buffs (Improbability Sphere, Pot Lid, and Teflon Spray) Crew-affecting, while adjusting Rock Armor to being single-target.
----
Turtle Stamina Cost: 11.11 Cooldown: 90 seconds Duration: [Varies with RR] Target: Self Only RR1 -> 100% Armor Pool + 80% Speed Debuff (10 seconds) RR2 -> 100% Armor Pool + 80% Speed Debuff (15 seconds) RR3 -> 100% Armor Pool + 80% Speed Debuff (20 seconds) RR4 -> 100% Armor Pool + 80% Speed Debuff (30 seconds)
This change is, primarily, to readjust the power level of Turtle - I believe that reducing the Cooldown (more than increasing the duration) fits the ring best. On top of that, however, I've added a Footspeed Debuff, for two reasons: firstly, moving slowly fits the theme of a Turtle very aptly; and secondly, it reaffirms this ring has a different role than Fleet Feet. In essence, this ring gives you time to deal with a situation, rather than time to run away from it.
----
I'll be looking back over my old posts to see if I can find any other similar fixes I've proposed, and adding them here. Similarly, if anyone has any other rings we ought to work on fixing, I'd be more than happy to hear your opinions on them...
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:07 pm
Ring rebalance possibilities... *drools*
...oh wait I should've read before posting, now I don't know what to say ; A;
...TBE
edit: AAAHHHHHH!!!
edit2: HNest tick interval duration? Real does not agree with TV, BTW.
Isn't Athlete's 20%? Unless ZE guide's outdated... °3°
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:06 pm
gataka Ring rebalance possibilities... *drools* ...oh wait I should've read before posting, now I don't know what to say ; A; ...TBE edit: AAAHHHHHH!!! edit2: HNest tick interval duration? Real does not agree with TV, BTW. Isn't Athlete's 20%? Unless ZE guide's outdated... °3°
I'll have to go figure out how I got under the impression Athlete gave a bigger boost than that. How silly. redface
What's this about Hornet's Nest's duration? sweatdrop
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:15 pm
Red Kutai
I'll have to go figure out how I got under the impression Athlete gave a bigger boost than that. How silly. redface
What's this about Hornet's Nest's duration? sweatdrop
Ze time gap between ticks how long is it? ¯3¯ Currently HNest is slower than other DoTs for some reasons.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:28 pm
gataka Red Kutai
I'll have to go figure out how I got under the impression Athlete gave a bigger boost than that. How silly. redface
What's this about Hornet's Nest's duration? sweatdrop
Ze time gap between ticks how long is it? ¯3¯ Currently HNest is slower than other DoTs for some reasons.
Oh, the curiosities that I'm simply unaware of. sweatdrop
I was under the impression that all DoTs tick'd at the same rate, and I'd simply guessed that that rate was once-per-second. I can't say I ever noticed the difference myself, but I certainly believe you if you say it's there. whee
Anyhow, there should be a standard rate for DoT, and we should probably avoid deviating from it, without good reason...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:25 pm
Remarks and ideas -
Taunt: An interesting mechanism, but I see a troll-friendly problem. Based on my experiences, when two non-crewed people attack the same monster, the chances of each one getting a reward is adjusted based on how much damage they've done. Or, more simply, the Hate they've accumulated. What's to stop a troll from ganking a kill with a last-second Taunt? (Granted, the 30s cooldown keeps them from doing it constantly)
Hornet: At first I thought 10 hits at x damage by RR. But then by your text, I started wondering if you meant x hits by RR at 10 damage each. Gataka raises a good point. How are you going to squeeze off 40 - or even ten - hits in under seven seconds? Further, how does your version compare to Hot Foot?
Shark: What about dropping the damage slightly but adding a long-duration bleed effect? That would at least be in keeping with the 'theme' of the attack.
Adrenaline: Stamina is a fiddly affair, and should not be meddled with casually. If the ring were returned to Buff status, I would probably make it a short-term "Super-Ghost" effect. For a short time, say 30 seconds, you have a 50% chance to dodge any attack. Whether this buff is self-only, ally-only, or all-crew is something I haven't worked out yet.
Knife: Working on the same premise as my Adrenaline, Knife Sharpen could give you a massive bonus to your Critical Rate. Again, limited duration.
Teflon: I'm not keen on scaling Duration by CL. There surely must be some other way to get CL involved.
Turtle: Player base speed is 192. I propose a speed debuff of 144. You'll still be faster than if you're dazed, and other buffs can counter the effect to varying degrees.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:11 am
Adrenaline and knife... Now those two really go into "oh shoot" territory... But amazingly, I'm not entirely against the idea of either.
Your Adrenaline gets my approval right off the bat for keeping the most fundamental basis of what rings like it should have, but most people miss and end up making something broken: At RR1, it will, on average, heal less stamina than you spend, but not by much.
I don't like the idea of changing cooldowns with Cl because the ring literally turns into late-game stuff, and becomes more useless in any situation where we have to suppress. It's not that we need to use it on any level below 5, but fact is we'll probably gain rage faster than that. And what about when we reach level 20? could we RR2 spam to a single tanking player, making the kind of thing go on forever in any situation? But I don't really have any other solution to make the ring scale with CL, as stamina doesn't either. I don't know what to give it for a reason to upgrade, so... I guess that works.
Knife Sharpen is... I don't like the execution.
A damage buff is a nice addition, but I feel something is wrong with this form, but I might be missing something. Regardless, the suggestion to keep the duration at 60 seconds might seem sound, but I believe it's a matter of how you envision this game. Buffs are usually worked out in a span of time then meant to be forgotten entirely for quite the long duration - that is what the 'experts' would agree to be 'casual', (as if global buffing isn't more so), so that begs the question: Should this ring nag the player to attack a bunch of monsters to make sure his rage usage wasn't wasted into non-efficiency, or should it live up to the other current rings and how they expect of the players to use them, ie, apply and forget?
Also, this is a nice ability to give to a monster. And then taking that monster and sticking in some places that work in waves, to artificially inflate the wave's difficulty. What's worse than a 300 damage hitting big dog? A big dog capable of summoning support animated that buff him to 450 damage. Much like the entirety of all suggestions regarding buffs on monsters, this is the best way to add difficulties without having to con yellow.
Taunt - First, I believe that Taunt shouldn't be top priority in making the monster aggro you when used. A monster that took enough damage from a reckless source should be able ignore taunt, but taunt needs to be actually effective regardless. Taunt is a rather "get someone free out of jail" card that way, and it's wrong to give the crew that much power. But you thought about the only problem with taunt: You made the hate values for it be based off the highest hitting ring. Why didn't the devs do the same right when they first designed it? I wonder if the reduction to 1 hate and increases in cooldown and stamina are really that necessary. Why not just bump taunt's hate generating to a "expected" amount? Something along the lines of what you made, maybe a even more hate considering people have multiple rings, not to mention that 500 healing off a well placed diagnose would null it anyways. Healing is without a doubt, THE way for hate generating.
Thard might be on to something of a problem with that new taunt, but I'm not even sure if drops work that way. If they do, I'll start healing everyone I see next time I happen to see a "steal kill" opportunity (Not that I give a damn to do it).
The transition from RR1 to RR2's power is comparatively laughable if we stick with the old effect though, wherein people would be best advised to never use RR2 ever.
Turtle - I'll have to go with the above, but only after a question: Have we ever seen a buff/debuff work with percentages?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:42 am
Thard_Verad Remarks and ideas - Taunt: An interesting mechanism, but I see a troll-friendly problem. Based on my experiences, when two non-crewed people attack the same monster, the chances of each one getting a reward is adjusted based on how much damage they've done. Or, more simply, the Hate they've accumulated. What's to stop a troll from ganking a kill with a last-second Taunt? (Granted, the 30s cooldown keeps them from doing it constantly) - Kill credited if on Hate list on death
- Drop % are scalled to how damage you've done.
- Hate =! damage "resets to 1" is not "erase" so rewards wouldn't change. However, some REvents have points system related to Hate: there may be some problems there. Also, there seems to be a difference between offensive and non-offensive means of getting Hate without doing damage. I mean, if you use Taunt or some CCs it'll count towards quests and chests. You can complete quests and even gain quest drops that way. However, healing, despite giving you Hate and thus kill cred, won't work for chests and quests. TT farming: heal all you want, no quest cred. Drop a Taunt or Quicksand and you're done. No work, little interference. No gold thought emotion_awesome I need to take a closer. Confirm Healing nets you credit and maybe ask swarf about the legality of all this. DrQuint Turtle - I'll have to go with the above, but only after a question: Have we ever seen a buff/debuff work with percentages? Gumshoe is and likely all speed DBs. Don't want negaspeed. Or negaMaxHP. Kuzuan I double-checked and Gumshoue works like a Debuff instead of CC. The difference being that Debuffs reduce monster stats (by a percentage or a point amount) while CC attacks cause status effects (root, fear or sleep). CC attacks are improved with higher WP while Debuffs gain zero benefit from higher WP.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:40 pm
Thard_Verad Hornet: At first I thought 10 hits at x damage by RR. But then by your text, I started wondering if you meant x hits by RR at 10 damage each. Gataka raises a good point. How are you going to squeeze off 40 - or even ten - hits in under seven seconds? Further, how does your version compare to Hot Foot?
I had no intention of squeezing 40 hits into 7 seconds; as I mentioned to gataka, I was assuming an one-tick-per-second rate. RR4 Hornet's Nest, as written, would produce 40 ticks of 10 damage, lasting for 40 seconds. Again, it was intended to produce a 'poison' type of effect - a slow, incremental death. It seems a little pointless to me that DoT exists, yet none of our current DoTs exceed their own duration. Given that DoT stacks, I don't see why we would avoid stacking it.
Quote: Shark: What about dropping the damage slightly but adding a long-duration bleed effect? That would at least be in keeping with the 'theme' of the attack.
Sharks are not, iconically, predators known for bleeding their kills out - thematically, they take one big bite. While I did initially consider a DoT effect to increase the overall damage while maintaining balance, that pushes the ring into stiff competition with Hack, and reduces the intended impact of it.
Quote: Adrenaline: Stamina is a fiddly affair, and should not be meddled with casually. If the ring were returned to Buff status, I would probably make it a short-term "Super-Ghost" effect. For a short time, say 30 seconds, you have a 50% chance to dodge any attack. Whether this buff is self-only, ally-only, or all-crew is something I haven't worked out yet.
Then Divinity ought to be similarly fix'd, I should say. Having only one option for Stamina is worth than either zero or two options. I don't think the design space is quite as untouchable as you're implying, though I do expect balance to be a concern.
Increased Dodge does not, honestly, appear to be Adrenaline-related at all, to me. Adrenaline is part of the fight-or-flight response - I expect it to either prepare you to flee (Footspeed), or prepare you to fight (Stamina). Since Footspeed buffs are an overstuffed area of design space, and Stamina is an underused one, the decision between the two seemed pretty natural.
Quote: Knife: Working on the same premise as my Adrenaline, Knife Sharpen could give you a massive bonus to your Critical Rate. Again, limited duration.
An Accuracy bonus (and the resultant bonus to Criticals it produces) was actually my first thought for Knife Sharpen, and I wouldn't mind returning to that. I used a Damage buff, instead, to avoid potentially undesirable interactions with characters who already have high Accuracy (where the effect would be, unintuitively, severely lessened), as well as an attempt to explore some new space. Agreed, though, that it should be a buff that's increasing damage. 3nodding
Quote: Teflon: I'm not keen on scaling Duration by CL. There surely must be some other way to get CL involved.
I've yet to see one, but I'm open to suggestions. I don't see the problem with scaling buff durations, personally, and I suspect it will actually increase the use of buffs in beginner gameplay - a ring you use every 15 minutes is boring, after all. The only ones that I expect to be bothered by the change are higher-leveled players who are suppressed, who are simply accustomed to long durations - and those players would be resistant to any of the necessary changes to make buffs less relevant.
Quote: Turtle: Player base speed is 192. I propose a speed debuff of 144. You'll still be faster than if you're dazed, and other buffs can counter the effect to varying degrees.
Not sure I'm keen on the effect being countered much, to begin with - Footspeed buffs do still serve to increase your speed, even with it. It's there to reinforce the expected use of the ring, and doesn't particularly hinder players who are using it in that manner; do you have a reason that you feel it needs to be possible to work around it?
DrQuint Your Adrenaline gets my approval right off the bat for keeping the most fundamental basis of what rings like it should have, but most people miss and end up making something broken: At RR1, it will, on average, heal less stamina than you spend, but not by much. I don't like the idea of changing cooldowns with Cl because the ring literally turns into late-game stuff, and becomes more useless in any situation where we have to suppress. It's not that we need to use it on any level below 5, but fact is we'll probably gain rage faster than that. And what about when we reach level 20? could we RR2 spam to a single tanking player, making the kind of thing go on forever in any situation? But I don't really have any other solution to make the ring scale with CL, as stamina doesn't either. I don't know what to give it for a reason to upgrade, so... I guess that works.
I'm still fully aware that it would need to be tested before being set out in the game, and I wasn't intending to propose any of these changes be made blindly. Still, I think having the option to grant Stamina to another player has potential, and having at least one potential 'alternative' to Divinity (though I understand that they'll still be used together, most often) is important to me.
Quote: Knife Sharpen is... I don't like the execution. A damage buff is a nice addition, but I feel something is wrong with this form, but I might be missing something. Regardless, the suggestion to keep the duration at 60 seconds might seem sound, but I believe it's a matter of how you envision this game. Buffs are usually worked out in a span of time then meant to be forgotten entirely for quite the long duration - that is what the 'experts' would agree to be 'casual', (as if global buffing isn't more so), so that begs the question: Should this ring nag the player to attack a bunch of monsters to make sure his rage usage wasn't wasted into non-efficiency, or should it live up to the other current rings and how they expect of the players to use them, ie, apply and forget?
Given that 'casual' players tend not to worry about waste and perfect efficiency, I'd say it's fair enough. The investment required to put this Ring on-par with any given attack ring (in terms of Damage-per-Stamina, at least) isn't that high, so the only players who will be concerned with the 'nagging' of it will be those who are already concerned with being as efficient as possible.
Quote: Taunt - First, I believe that Taunt shouldn't be top priority in making the monster aggro you when used. A monster that took enough damage from a reckless source should be able ignore taunt, but taunt needs to be actually effective regardless. Taunt is a rather "get someone free out of jail" card that way, and it's wrong to give the crew that much power. But you thought about the only problem with taunt: You made the hate values for it be based off the highest hitting ring. Why didn't the devs do the same right when they first designed it? I wonder if the reduction to 1 hate and increases in cooldown and stamina are really that necessary. Why not just bump taunt's hate generating to a "expected" amount? Something along the lines of what you made, maybe a even more hate considering people have multiple rings, not to mention that 500 healing off a well placed diagnose would null it anyways. Healing is without a doubt, THE way for hate generating. Thard might be on to something of a problem with that new taunt, but I'm not even sure if drops work that way. If they do, I'll start healing everyone I see next time I happen to see a "steal kill" opportunity (Not that I give a damn to do it).The transition from RR1 to RR2's power is comparatively laughable if we stick with the old effect though, wherein people would be best advised to never use RR2 ever.
Well, again, this Taunt was intended to always guarantee the user wound up with Aggro - that was no accident, and that's what you expect to happen when you Taunt something. A taunt is intended to distract someone, and occasions when it doesn't do that are subversions.
As I mentioned to Atrash in the thread I took it from, it's based on the PWI Barbarian ability 'Roar' - an ability that is integral to tanking. If we're honestly interested in allowing players to have individualised roles in combat, then we will have to allow them the ability to control what happens in combat, yes. If it's not granting you extra control of what's going on within your domain, you realise, there's no point in specialising...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:28 pm
Red Kutai
Well, again, this Taunt was intended to always guarantee the user wound up with Aggro - that was no accident, and that's what you expect to happen when you Taunt something. A taunt is intended to distract someone, and occasions when it doesn't do that are subversions.
As I mentioned to Atrash in the thread I took it from, it's based on the PWI Barbarian ability 'Roar' - an ability that is integral to tanking. If we're honestly interested in allowing players to have individualised roles in combat, then we will have to allow them the ability to control what happens in combat, yes. If it's not granting you extra control of what's going on within your domain, you realise, there's no point in specialising...
But there's a HUGE difference in that on Perfect World, where some less physical characters will get absolutely raped by a stronger mob, because they geared themselves towards boosting the appropriate skills in detriment of protection. Not to mention, reliable quick burst healing in PWI is rare compared to over time abilities for latter game characters, except for one very important piece of equipment that is so fundamental, PVP is centered all around it. On zOMG! everyone is likely as protected as everyone else since every buff is shared, everyone has the same base health and healing is also considerably fast even with normal skills. In 5 seconds, a sitting person will quickly heal half their stamina and most of their health and be perfectly ready for battle. The ability to juggle monsters is quite powerful due to that, and unless a monster would kill single targets quickly enough, which is some form of unfair design in the first place, the power of taunt would guarantee that a crew paying attention would never get any casualty again. Then again, I AM on the side that would re-balance even rings that are used a lot and tone them down, because I find the appeal of roles to be undermined in the current system. Players are too similar.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:49 pm
DrQuint Then again, I AM on the side that would re-balance even rings that are used a lot and tone them down, because I find the appeal of roles to be undermined in the current system. Players are too similar.
That's pretty much the point of it, yes - I didn't include anything about changing current buff targeting restrictions, though I should. Which buffs do we think ought to affect a whole crew, and which should be single-target and Self Only?
I think it's buffs more than anything that make roles unworkable, and I suppose I should've specified that that's a goal I'm sincerely working towards, with these sorts of changes... sweatdrop
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:47 pm
Red Kutai DrQuint Then again, I AM on the side that would re-balance even rings that are used a lot and tone them down, because I find the appeal of roles to be undermined in the current system. Players are too similar.
That's pretty much the point of it, yes - I didn't include anything about changing current buff targeting restrictions, though I should. Which buffs do we think ought to affect a whole crew, and which should be single-target and Self Only?
I think it's buffs more than anything that make roles unworkable, and I suppose I should've specified that that's a goal I'm sincerely working towards, with these sorts of changes... sweatdrop
BEFORE we go there, a better question would be: Which buffs would players be okay with getting a rehaul? Going down is always worse than granting powers, because people will declare foul play. Look at the gold nerf. It was never at any point, anywhere even near the point before the gold boost, but it was enough to make people stop some from playing SS. So, for example, I doubt anyone would be accepting of having a current buff become "self-only" without a very good reason. I believe we should discuss a system of expected roles in the game before thinking of anything. I would, were it up to me, mess up all defenses right off the bat to single target but allowed on any target. Why? Because that would promote "Designated Tanks", or, more likely would give someone the task to bring defenses and keep using rage on buffing others to become tanks. Small, role independent extras, such as divinity and healing halo, would remain all-target, because there's no point in punishing the players by forcing to apply each, as long as there's enough other stuff being single target. Related: Currently, we have Rock armor as global target, and sweetheart at single target. Considering Rock armor gives a whooping a** 33% damage reduction, one has to wonder about the implications of two rings which have the same objective, making people live longer, why is the one of them that is vastly superior gets the global buff? But that doesn't still change one aspect of it, which is base differentiation. Currently, there's only two things that even remotely resemble that: Ghi and Ringset. And everyone gets the same Ghi and ringsets come at a price. The game should have had it, that whole thing with Classes. But it should have still allowed for complete freedom on picking rings, unlike what ring-sets did. In fact, classes have should be something you could change at any time in the Null Chamber without affecting what rings you could choose, while making certain choices better for the class. In fact, I think I'll start a thread on this and we'll see what happens... I think I got the greatest dev quote for it even.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:13 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:46 pm
I spoke from memory. I know it reduces a third of all damage.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:03 am
DrQuint BEFORE we go there, a better question would be: Which buffs would players be okay with getting a rehaul? Going down is always worse than granting powers, because people will declare foul play. Look at the gold nerf. It was never at any point, anywhere even near the point before the gold boost, but it was enough to make people stop some from playing SS. So, for example, I doubt anyone would be accepting of having a current buff become "self-only" without a very good reason.
People will resist any changes that reduces their presumptive power level - nothing we can do to change that. The fact is, buffs are too relevant, and making them less so will be unappealing to players who are accustomed to them. Personally, I'd prefer to pair these sorts of updates with ones that make other areas (like G'hi and Ringsets) more appealing, so it seems more like a legitimate rebalance, rather than a 'nerf'.
Quote: I believe we should discuss a system of expected roles in the game before thinking of anything. I would, were it up to me, mess up all defenses right off the bat to single target but allowed on any target. Why? Because that would promote "Designated Tanks", or, more likely would give someone the task to bring defenses and keep using rage on buffing others to become tanks. Small, role independent extras, such as divinity and healing halo, would remain all-target, because there's no point in punishing the players by forcing to apply each, as long as there's enough other stuff being single target. Related: Currently, we have Rock armor as global target, and sweetheart at single target. Considering Rock armor gives a whooping a** 33% damage reduction, one has to wonder about the implications of two rings which have the same objective, making people live longer, why is the one of them that is vastly superior gets the global buff?
One rule I'd stick to is that Luck buffs are always global, or Self Only - I see far too much potential for disputes, otherwise. That means Coyote Spirit and Divinity stay as-is, which I'm fine with, since everyone moves and uses Stamina.
I would potentially disagree about Halo, though - Weight and Health Regen would be valuable primarily to the players Tanking. I'd run that one as single-target, though, since it's seems pretty obviously intended as a support ability.
I agree that it'd probably be fair to make all defenses single-target - but what about Rock Armor? It is decidedly stronger than the other armors (thanks to the irrelevance of its Armor Pool) - either it needs to be further restricted (Self Only), or brought into a better balance. That is, either Self Only as-is, or single-target with a much-reduced Pool Size. The latter seems a keener option, to me, as making the pool more relevant is a little clearer about Rock Armor's role (it is so rarely relevant, now, that relatively few players understand the difference between Pool- and Persistent-style Armors), and not having the buff last its full duration (which it wouldn't, on a Tank) encourages supporting players to focus their efforts - if the buff actually has a chance of wearing off, you wouldn't waste Rage casting it on someone who doesn't need it.
As for Sweetheart, I expect that Ring to go permanently untouched - it seems reasonable to me that if it's not acceptable for re-release, it's a tad unreasonable to make it more relevant. Essentially, toss Sweetheart in the vaults, and forget about it. sweatdrop
----
Buffs
Coyote Spirit (no change)
Divinity (fix: nerf? - Divinity is ridiculously relevant, at this point)
Fleet Feet (no change)
Ghost (???)
Healing Halo (fix: single-target)
Improbability Sphere (fix: single-target)
Iron Will (???)
Keen Aye (???)
Meat (no change)
My Density (???)
Pot Lid (fix: single-target)
Rock Armor (fix: single-target, Pool Size)
Sweetheart (no change)
Teflon Spray (fix: single-target, Debuff Resistance)
I'd like to see more of these as Self Only, personally - which do you think we could get away with? Ghost and Keen Aye would make sense affecting only oneself, as they're also very role-specific (Dodge needs some adjusting, though, or Ghost will be unusable). Iron Will is rather role-specific, especially when Willpower affects Crowd Control; and limiting the effectiveness of ignoring CC could make the game much more interesting. My Density does say "My Density" - is that reason enough to make it Self Only? How many Self Only abilities can we expect from dedicated Tanks?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
