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Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:54 am
Back when I was in the final stage of coming out of my fluffy phase, I re-evaluated a lot of things, as you do. For me it was something of a 'read it, accept it because it's in a book so it must be true' phase... I grew out of it over time, mostly, and it must have been even a year or two later, after I'd stopped calling myself a Wiccan, when I sat down, looked at my craft and started tossing out everything I didn't believe or agree with any more.
I culled a lot of stuff. There were piles. There was an "outright rejection" pile, and a "examine properly to ascertain value" pile, and a "pretty good, definite keeper" pile, a "needs more work to determine place in current practice" pile and a "no idea, wtf, think about it later" pile. Roughly speaking.
The pentagram mostly fell into the last pile, and for the most part, it's still there. Much of me, in the culling frenzy, associated it strongly with some sort of silly non-specificness, a rallying symbol for a lot of people without much in common. Then there was another part of me that, for some reason, looked at it this way and that and definitely sensed some sort of power in the symbol in its own right. It was something I very much wanted to keep.... but I didn't know what it meant to me. It was just.... there.
Practically, I use it in magic to "seal" things, sometimes. It's easy to draw and a good way for me to set a quick spell. I rarely use it to "bless" something or charge it. I have a few pentacle jewellery items.
But to me it doesn't symbolise anything. Or rather, it could do - but I haven't found it yet. The element thing is fine and good, it's just not a thing I associate with the symbol.
Most of us are aware that the symbol has been used here and there over the centuries, including within Christianity as a symbol of the five wounds of Christ. With that in mind, and the different possibilities there are, what does the pentagram mean and/or symbolise within your belief system or tradition? If it doesn't really have a place in your tradition, do you associate the symbol with anything particularly?
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Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:29 am
For me, there's a lot of stuff I associate with it and it's still evolving. I think as I continue on my seeking, it will keep changing- maybe it isn't changing as much as adding depth. Every layer, every new understanding tacks on to what I already feel about it.
I have one I like- it's a necklace and the pent looks like it's being held up by stylized fire. The elemental thing is cool- but I always felt like there was something deeper and I'm starting to feel like I'm on the path to find it.
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Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:44 pm
Sanguina Cruenta The pentagram mostly fell into the last pile, and for the most part, it's still there. Much of me, in the culling frenzy, associated it strongly with some sort of silly non-specificness, a rallying symbol for a lot of people without much in common. Then there was another part of me that, for some reason, looked at it this way and that and definitely sensed some sort of power in the symbol in its own right. It was something I very much wanted to keep.... but I didn't know what it meant to me. It was just.... there. The pentacle is used by so many different paths for different reasons that it's accumulated a lot of ritual resonance over a broad spectrum. I think it's likely that not everyone picks up on all of it, or has a use for certain types of resonance. I want to posit that perhaps you feel the ritual resonance the pentacle has, on some level, but since it lacks context for you it doesn't seem clearly apparent. Sanguina Cruenta Practically, I use it in magic to "seal" things, sometimes. It's easy to draw and a good way for me to set a quick spell. I rarely use it to "bless" something or charge it. I have a few pentacle jewellery items. I tend to use pentacles for the same thing - as 'seals', a symbol that completes magical circuits or energy work for me. I do use it to bless things as well, but rarely to charge - unless I am specifically working with a pentacle as a symbol for Earth. I have a beeswax pentacle I use as a charging plate for such things. Sanguina Cruenta But to me it doesn't symbolise anything. Or rather, it could do - but I haven't found it yet. The element thing is fine and good, it's just not a thing I associate with the symbol. Have you considered the idea of taking a journey across the hedge actually -to- the symbol of the Pentacle? Most objects that have ritual resonance have somewhat of a personality and 'life' all their own, like other thoughtforms - and it may be possible to encounter it in the Otherworlds. It may offer you more insight as to what exactly draws you to it, or what it may represent to you. Sanguina Cruenta With that in mind, and the different possibilities there are, what does the pentagram mean and/or symbolise within your belief system or tradition? If it doesn't really have a place in your tradition, do you associate the symbol with anything particularly? The pentacle tends to have a fairly deep symbolism in Wicca - it have many many layers, understanding of which seems to continue ever onwards. I am perpetually experiencing its' Mysteries as I continue on this path. It is, of course, strongly associated with witchcraft as a symbol - it's out there as something 'forbidden', with a sense of mystery and danger, and people use it easily and visibly identify themselves as witches. But I feel as if the elemental symbolism of the pentacle is merely the surface layer, and few people get beneath that. I own many pentacles, but I tend not to wear them particularily often. I prefer spiral shapes, trees, leaves, gemstones animals...things like that. If I'd had the chance to wear one as a teenager, I might have been overjoyed. But I've spent my whole life being less visible, and subtle about what symbols I choose to bear publicly...maybe that's why pentacles don't appeal as much to me.
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Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:52 pm
Currently its not relevant to my Path. My Path is highly new though. I only a few months decided I needed to be an Eclectic and even more recently have seriously given a good look at the Norse Pantheon particularily Thor.
But its mostly not relevant to me because as much as I like the Elements, and I REALLY like Elements, it doesnt convey everything I feel about them. I dont associate North with this or that Element and almost consider North itself an Element.
There is also the issue of it being closely related to several 'fluffy' things that makes me want no part of it. My friends that work Energy very well use it a lot which makes me iffy about it. It's in the House of Night series, good series but fluffy as hell, where the main characters can use the Elements in terms of Energy.
And I dont want to go down that Path with it. Its not fair to the symbol that it's associated like that so for now I leave it alone until I am concrete on my stuff and can view it with the right Lens and fairness.
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Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:29 pm
PersianPapiiChulo But its mostly not relevant to me because as much as I like the Elements, and I REALLY like Elements, it doesnt convey everything I feel about them. I dont associate North with this or that Element and almost consider North itself an Element. There's more than one elemental system out there, thankfully, for people who don't have a lot of use or connection to the classical Western elemental system. And there's nothing that says you have to use an established elemental system, either - you can develop your own, based on your own sense of the world around you, and the geography where you live (or not, if you don't associate elements with directions at all). PersianPapiiChulo There is also the issue of it being closely related to several 'fluffy' things that makes me want no part of it. My friends that work Energy very well use it a lot which makes me iffy about it. It's in the House of Night series, good series but fluffy as hell, where the main characters can use the Elements in terms of Energy. Just about every idea or concept anywhere will have people who use its' most basic, surface level, and never progress beyond that '101' point. Some people are content to have a shallow understanding of the things around them, because it's easy. There are shallow adherents of all kinds of ideaologies and religions. But just because others use ideas or concepts in a way that you find shallow or 'fluffy', does not mean that your involvement with said things have to be the same. Don't reject potential concepts out of hand out of fear of what others may think. If you think an idea's attractive but might be flaky, look at it deeper. Get into its' foundations. You may find something very different in the basement, so to speak, than if you fixate on the ugly frilly curtains someone's hung on the door.
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Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:37 pm
Morgandria PersianPapiiChulo But its mostly not relevant to me because as much as I like the Elements, and I REALLY like Elements, it doesnt convey everything I feel about them. I dont associate North with this or that Element and almost consider North itself an Element. There's more than one elemental system out there, thankfully, for people who don't have a lot of use or connection to the classical Western elemental system. And there's nothing that says you have to use an established elemental system, either - you can develop your own, based on your own sense of the world around you, and the geography where you live (or not, if you don't associate elements with directions at all). PersianPapiiChulo There is also the issue of it being closely related to several 'fluffy' things that makes me want no part of it. My friends that work Energy very well use it a lot which makes me iffy about it. It's in the House of Night series, good series but fluffy as hell, where the main characters can use the Elements in terms of Energy. Just about every idea or concept anywhere will have people who use its' most basic, surface level, and never progress beyond that '101' point. Some people are content to have a shallow understanding of the things around them, because it's easy. There are shallow adherents of all kinds of ideaologies and religions. But just because others use ideas or concepts in a way that you find shallow or 'fluffy', does not mean that your involvement with said things have to be the same. Don't reject potential concepts out of hand out of fear of what others may think. If you think an idea's attractive but might be flaky, look at it deeper. Get into its' foundations. You may find something very different in the basement, so to speak, than if you fixate on the ugly frilly curtains someone's hung on the door. Thanks Morg. I tried my had at creating my own Elemental System. What I came up with relates to no other Path so I have left it there for the moment as I look at Thor more. But it is there and if you want to read it and critique it I have it mine Pathways thread. I see your point about not rejecting ideas because they are fluffy and it makes perfect sense. In this case though I haven't rejected the Pentagram so much as put it on hold. Until I can do the serious research, get to the basement as you put(I like that phrase), I wont do anything with it because I know currently I am biased. I wanna give it a proper chance. Make sense?
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Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:59 pm
Really, pentacles have never had much resonance for me. There's certainly a power to them but it's not something that I need or care about. For that reason, I mostly associate them with the people who wear them. That easy and visible way to identify yourself as pagan. I know there's more to it but that's really the only part the is currently relevant to me as a way to note people, though I never really it in that way for myself.
I just remember that even when I was first getting into paganism and reading all the Llewellyn books, it just felt like it wasn't for me.
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Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:47 pm
I have never worn a pentacle. Maybe one day I will. I do wear a necklace with a horse charm attached to almost everyday. The horse means more to me and "holds more power" to me than a pentagram.
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Distinct Conversationalist
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Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:03 pm
I got mine in high school from an old-fashioned bronze coin press necklace shop at Universal Studios. It has a wolf howling at the moon on the other side (my favorite animal, not much other significance there). I used to see a lot of importance in it, but now I'm not sure how I feel about it as part of my faith. Mostly, I just like the style of it and its basic elemental associations (everything is connected, things like that). I also feel weird when I don't wear it, so I leave it on for everything, even showering and sleep (the bronze is quite lovely now that it's aged and been wet).
I think I mostly keep it for the wolf. I really, really love wolves and dogs in general. Loyalty+personal independence within a group is kind of my thing. I define myself by my friends but also by my own actions. I feel like the pentacle might strengthen that somehow, but I'm not really sure.
Like Raven said, it also helps me identify other Pagans.
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Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:06 pm
Thanks to everyone for your posts! biggrin I'm happy that this is turning into a good discussion. Morgandria I want to posit that perhaps you feel the ritual resonance the pentacle has, on some level, but since it lacks context for you it doesn't seem clearly apparent. Could be, could be. lol, how irritating. I might spend the rest of forever sitting there with the pentacle and with no context for it. Quote: I tend to use pentacles for the same thing - as 'seals', a symbol that completes magical circuits or energy work for me. I do use it to bless things as well, but rarely to charge - unless I am specifically working with a pentacle as a symbol for Earth. I have a beeswax pentacle I use as a charging plate for such things. I made a plate, a couple of years ago. I don't really use it, but I'm quite fond of it, despite it being not very well made. I find myself not content to just think of it as a magical seal symbol. There's more to it, and while it's probably not possible to understand all of it, I still feel I need to understand more of it. I am not yet satisfied. Quote: Have you considered the idea of taking a journey across the hedge actually -to- the symbol of the Pentacle? Most objects that have ritual resonance have somewhat of a personality and 'life' all their own, like other thoughtforms - and it may be possible to encounter it in the Otherworlds. It may offer you more insight as to what exactly draws you to it, or what it may represent to you. Oooh, I hadn't thought about that. Very interesting idea - I'll have to give it a try. Thanks for the insights! biggrin
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Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:48 pm
As far as my path goes, I really haven't discovered which one I feel driven towards yet. But for me, the pentacle is like a cross is to my mother and my father. It's a symbol of who I am, what I stand for, etc. I've been wanting to so badly to get a pentacle necklace to express myself openly with my religion, but I'm gonna wait for my parents to warm up to my choice a bit more.
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Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:44 pm
Hmmm...
In the early stages, before I really knew what I was doing, I liked it quite a bit. I thought it was a lovely symbol, and I sort of associated it with the elements, and felt like it had power of some sort. I had one necklace, but I gave it to my mother.
Now it seems...hollow? I don't really know how to put it into words. When I look at the symbol now I don't see power, it doesn't look nice, and it just has a general feeling of...lifelessness. Sometimes, it almost feels negative as well, but usually there's just nothing there.
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Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:21 am
I guess at the moment I only wear a pentagram because I hope that it will "attract" others with similar beliefs. I don't really have many people I can talk with face to face about Paganism in general, so I guess it just points out that I'm there to talk to and connect with. As an actual symbol, I like how it represents the elements. I'm not really sure what sort of path I'd like to follow, so until my path is revealed and I can associate different symbols with it, the pentagram shall remain as a symbol of my beliefs.
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Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:16 pm
I've been contemplating on this for a while myself. I use to wear one to identify myself as pagan and because I agree the symbolism that everything is connected. But lately I've hesitated to wear any of my pentacle jewelry. I feel as if I shouldn't wear one till I have a better understanding and a deeper meaning of it for me. However me and my boyfriend got matching rings one year for our anniversary. So the ring means more to me then just the reasons I stated above, it also symbolizes our connection to each other in every sense. I do like seeing other people wearing it for the simple fact of identifying who's pagan. ((Although this isn't always the case since a lot of people wear symbols that they don't really understand the meaning)) And I have been looking for another person in real life with similar beliefs, the symbol is a nice ice breaker since this sort of thing isn't really brought up out of the blue.
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:37 am
One of the few times I have worn a pentacle out in (well, relatively recent memory) was a few years ago now. I was at the laundromat, where I generally don't want to talk to people and try to go when it's quiet.
Where I live is pretty much an overgrown village. I lived here for 5 months back in 2000, and figured out the score - the New-age folks here are Christian, we don't have many pagans, and people pretty much do their own things out this way. Everyone I have ever met out here are either doe-eyed newbies, flaming fluff, or (like me) grumpy misanthropic bastards. And everyone I met here who was cool, moved away when I moved back in 2005. For srs.
Anyway, back at the laundromat... I'm guessing this woman was maybe five years younger than me. She apparently spotted my pentacle and attempted to chat - I figured maybe she was just surprised to see one worn openly by someone over the age of 15. All she really wanted was to show her own pentacle off. She was -so- visibly excited, I was actually rather concerned. But I nodded and smiled and hoped she'd not go on at length.
She pulls out from under her fleece sweater this...thing. It was at least 2 inches wide, and had multiple gems on it - pagan bling, essentially. I smiled and nodded some more, being polite but -really- not wanting to have this conversation with her...
Then she says "It was a gift from my step-father when I was initiated. I'm a 3rd degree priestess in our family tradition!".
I wanted to throw up in my mouth. She left shortly thereafter, and I have thankfully never seen her again...although I do hope she's ok. I sincerely hope that I had not actually been talking to a woman whose stepfather raped her in the guise of 'initiation'. After that I have left my pentacles in their respective jewelry boxes, when I am out and about - I wear them at home, or for ritual purposes only. I'm not interested in having conversations with people anymore.
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