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First Church of Mod (Reformed)

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A cute club for the modists of the Do You Believe In Mods thread. 

Tags: Modism, Social, Humor, Roleplay, Satire 

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Tagra Nar

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:18 am


This-
Quote:
1-what conclusion i've come to is that an economist would value the economy over the mods, whereas the modist would value the mods over the economy.
1-it's a difference in belief over what is more powerful, i guess.
2-: under your defination, I would be leaning more on the Modists
2-: Gaia could last without an Economy
2-: It has in the past
2-: but Mods were around since the start
1-: would it though? what had driven people the most? mods correcting them or gold and items?
1-: ^-^ we need a discussion thread for this somewhere
2-: Gold and Items can last without an economy though
2-: to have an economy
2-: things need to be exchangable
2-: the bank and trading came after the forums
2-: through history itself, Gaia would last
2-: most likely, it wouldn't be as large or addicting
2-: but, it would last.
1-: ^-^ and gaia grew after the bank and trading (<- bad logical thinking)

-started this thread. I'm sure we've all seen the arguments for or against Modism or Economism, but have we ever held a full on debate over the virtues of either? This is what this is for. And also to give me more details for certain projects.

So, which holds more sway: the Mods or the Economy?
What are the virtues of each?
What are the pitfalls of each?
Are they that opposed to each other?

You need not be of either side to argue that side (there are those who enjoy playing Devil's Advocate), nor is this to shake anyone's faith. This will help flesh out each side for those who may be confused. Also, any other factions that may exist can and should be brought up to add to the discussion.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:16 pm


Mods hold power, Economy holds interest.
There's no benefits to taking the Modist side and following their orders, but there's a problem (banning and warning) of active infringement.
There's nothing wrong with focusing upon the economy: the Admins made it for us to use. A problem occurs with hackings and scammings, but this is not of the Economy; it is as above: what happens when an individual infringes.
Do they oppose? No, not in the least in my opinion.

Calmer


Icysnowgirl
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:49 am


Calmer
Mods hold power, Economy holds interest.
There's no benefits to taking the Modist side and following their orders, but there's a problem (banning and warning) of active infringement.
There's nothing wrong with focusing upon the economy: the Admins made it for us to use. A problem occurs with hackings and scammings, but this is not of the Economy; it is as above: what happens when an individual infringes.
Do they oppose? No, not in the least in my opinion.
heart I agree completely.

xD At least until someone makes another point that I agree with which will confuse me what my beliefs are. sweatdrop

In my opinion, the gaining and giving of items is not an active form of Economy. It is when two people exchange items/gold for things when Economy takes place. Even buying art or paying for bumps is a form of Economy because they are paying for a service. The only way you could not be a part of the economy on Gaia is if you just randomly give your gold away like FaeFae, without ever buying any items or art or random things. sweatdrop
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:28 am


Then does the term Economy need to be fully defined? I've always considered it to be anything concerning items or gold. Like getting a Blue Giftbox, which I will subsequently sell. It's the Admin giving us items either to wear or sell, but the initial action has nothing to do with trading items or gold.

Tagra Nar


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:41 pm


Tagra Nar
Then does the term Economy need to be fully defined? I've always considered it to be anything concerning items or gold. Like getting a Blue Giftbox, which I will subsequently sell. It's the Admin giving us items either to wear or sell, but the initial action has nothing to do with trading items or gold.
I think it does need to be fully defined, as does Modism. How are we going to be able to debate to even understand if we do not have a set meaning? It would be harder to exchange ideas without having a meaning that most of us, if not all of us, can agree to. 3nodding

For the reason that Gaia didn't start with a bank, aka the ability to exchange items between users, I do not view that anything concerning items or gold to be Economy. Yes, store items had different values, but (correct me if I'm wrong, those of you who were around before the bank was) Rares and Uncommons had no value except the sell back if there was one...

-ponders-

So if there was an economy, it was strictly an Admin based economy. Users had no power or say over the entire matter. 3nodding (I need to go study the announcements once more in order to debate this properly... sweatdrop )

Any comments on this idea?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:52 pm


Well, that would depend on the time it took to open the Bank and the Marketplace. It would be something worth checking the Announcements for, if they have archived that far back. The fact that they did open them, and that a lot of the newer users (or a lot of the more visible ones) beg for items and create avatars with expensive items shows the hold the Economy has over the users, and the importance thereof.

Full definitions of both would help, and would make my little book project that much easier. Perhaps we can draw some others in here so we can work out a full definition of each.

Tagra Nar


Calmer

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:12 pm


There weren't even Rares for the first month and a bit of the site's existence. ninja
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:46 pm


Tagra Nar
Well, that would depend on the time it took to open the Bank and the Marketplace.
The MP came long after the bank. 3nodding I was around for the MP! xd
Quote:
It would be something worth checking the Announcements for, if they have archived that far back.
3nodding They do. Shall I post the links?
Quote:
The fact that they did open them, and that a lot of the newer users (or a lot of the more visible ones) beg for items and create avatars with expensive items shows the hold the Economy has over the users, and the importance thereof.
But you also have users like FaeFae who don't buy a single thing. :3 Though he shows the importance of the Economy indirectly but kindly donating randomly so that his gold doesn't stockpile without ever circulating in the Economy. Besides, some of the older users also beg/make fancy avatars too. It isn't just the new people!

Quote:
Full definitions of both would help, and would make my little book project that much easier. Perhaps we can draw some others in here so we can work out a full definition of each.
xD Yea! Where is that Devil of the Economy? One would think he'd be naturally drawn to this topic or something! domokun

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Tagra Nar

PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:07 pm


Icysnowgirl
3nodding They do. Shall I post the links?

Yeah, that might be useful for this.
Quote:
But you also have users like FaeFae who don't buy a single thing. :3 Though he shows the importance of the Economy indirectly but kindly donating randomly so that his gold doesn't stockpile without ever circulating in the Economy. Besides, some of the older users also beg/make fancy avatars too. It isn't just the new people!

FaeFae's really the only one of him I've ever seen. 3nodding

No, but I guess my point was that the newer users (those visible ones) seem to be here primarily to "pimp their avatar". whee And that the older users who want expensive items also shows how much sway the Economy has. Items and gold are such an integral part of Gaia that, were they to be removed, Gaia would likely experience a fall in new users. We'd be like any other forum out there.
Quote:
xD Yea! Where is that Devil of the Economy? One would think he'd be naturally drawn to this topic or something! domokun

Yeah... Is he in the CoM? His viewpoints would be greatly treasured for this debate.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:25 am


;-; Gomen! I cannot find the links any more and the ones I can find don't work any more. gonk

Ahhhh~ But if there is one, there is the possibility of more. 3nodding

That is quite possible. sweatdrop Gaia seems to be getting much more notice for the avatar system then the forum. sweatdrop Fear the Economy's Sway! domokun Not only would we experience a fall in new users, we'd experience a bunch of pissed off people leaving for all of the time and effort they spent working for their items.

I believe he is a CoM member... I've seen him in the Modly Con topic. 3nodding Maybe someone should inform him of this topic?

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Samantha Grey

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:49 am


Calmer
Mods hold power,


To ban and unban, to remove posts, yes. That is the function and role that they fulfill, elevated in status as they are. However, the power to accomplish what one desires is seen in the end user. The ability to enjoy Gaia is seen within the end user. Only through the self-will, skill and abilities of the end user is Gaia fulfilled and maintained. Without the end user, the mods themselves become the end users, and preside over a silent and dead Gaia.

The end user is guided by rules and regulations for the sake of good order, and the controllers of said rules and regulations are those of elevated status, given the capacity to enforce said rules. However, Gaia is what is made by those who use it. Power is ultimately in their hands, both individually and corporately, in the form of interest in new functions the Admins present. If no one takes interest in these new functions, they often fade into the background.

Calmer
Economy holds interest.


Only for some. For others, conversation holds interest far more than economy. For still others, different things hold interest. Why do you think some from the chatterbox continue their playtime, never dressed in more than the rags they can buy with their starting gold, possibly never changing?

(*wavies* Hi hi! Those who don't know me, I'm Sam, one of Ananel's alts who's usually a character in SoR. He thought it'd be fun to post more here, and my perspective could be interesting ... if a bit heretical.)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:10 am


Icy loves her teenage girl Adversaries!

So, the end user, aka us nonModly ones, have the power to make Gaia what it means to us through our own actions and opinions? And that the Mods are only here to guide us through Gaia by the holy book that is the ToS?

New functions that fade into the background? Such as the Linklist? Well, what about the Personals? There were plenty of users that took interest in that feature, yet it was still yanked. :3 How would young Miss Samantha explain that?

Quite possibly they could be busy spending their gold on other things. Things that the Modly eyes do not wish to see, but must battle daily. I have no illusions, I know all too well what can and does take place from the chatterbox in private. Some times the cheapest clothing is the most enticing for these activities. Then there is the factor that they just might be mules, funneling their gold into the main account to be enjoyed though the economy's ways.

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AllianceSJR

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:15 am


Sounds borderline Playchaist to me.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 11:35 am


(Alliance, I really can't remember the names of the various heresies and non-modist sects outside of a paltry few, and that wasn't one of them. Remind me? As becomes apparent from her conversation, Samantha's views are closely akin to secular humanism mingled with a certain Zen individuality, creating something like a "Gaianism" that lauds the capacity and potential of the end user, favoring those who elevate themselves in a fashion adhering to the local code of law. Hence, statements like "Have faith in yourself" pepper her conversation.)

Icysnowgirl
So, the end user, aka us nonModly ones, have the power to make Gaia what it means to us through our own actions and opinions? And that the Mods are only here to guide us through Gaia by the holy book that is the ToS?


*shakes head* The gaian has control over their actions and the implications of their actions. They can control Gaia en masse to alter forum policy, though not always, and more poignantly are capable of seeking their own personal goals.

The Moderator roles are solely to retain the peace of the region, to apply the rules set forward. They serve an adjudicatory role, but are themselves end users simply of an elevated state. The ToS itself is not so much a holy book as it is guidelines and laws for behavior within Gaia as a whole, rules for good order. Holiness is found in the individual and in their own search, not in mere adulation of elevated users. Some don't particularly seek to better themselves, but holiness is found ultimately only in the hands of the individual end user, as only they hold responsibility over their own actions. A mod can show you a path, or even lead you down it, but this does not necessarily make it your path.

Icysnowgirl
New functions that fade into the background? Such as the Linklist? Well, what about the Personals? There were plenty of users that took interest in that feature, yet it was still yanked. :3 How would young Miss Samantha explain that?


Capacity to alter gaia does not mean that such will always be the case. It seems that even Administrators, the most elevated of all end users who help maintain the very code of the Gaian sphere, are forced to adhere and acknowledge their own set of rules for good order, rules that the ToS gaians adhere to seem to be patterned after. I believe that it was over an issue related to those rules that this matter may have been forced into resolution.

Icysnowgirl
Quite possibly they could be busy spending their gold on other things. Things that the Modly eyes do not wish to see, but must battle daily. I have no illusions, I know all too well what can and does take place from the chatterbox in private. Some times the cheapest clothing is the most enticing for these activities. Then there is the factor that they just might be mules, funneling their gold into the main account to be enjoyed though the economy's ways.


Some behave that way, yes. Not all, but some. Some simply don't care about gold, or see status as existing on other levels, such as post count and seniority. Such is the way of other realms much more than Gaia, but there are some who view things in these terms as well. Status is not always seen merely in the halo on a person's head. Seniority and presence have their place too, seen not only in physical signs such as post count, but also in behavior, demeanor and familiarity with the Gaian realm. Such things are necessarily intangible, but intangibles have a powerful impact on people.

Samantha Grey


AllianceSJR

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 2:56 pm


Samantha Grey
(Alliance, I really can't remember the names of the various heresies and non-modist sects outside of a paltry few, and that wasn't one of them. Remind me? As becomes apparent from her conversation, Samantha's views are closely akin to secular humanism mingled with a certain Zen individuality, creating something like a "Gaianism" that lauds the capacity and potential of the end user, favoring those who elevate themselves in a fashion adhering to the local code of law. Hence, statements like "Have faith in yourself" pepper her conversation.)


whee

I can't remember most of them, either. I remember Playchaism because it came up in conversation a few times in the past few months. It's...ah...

There are no Mods or Admins; Everyone is a Player Character.

There's more to it than that, but that's the gist. 3nodding
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First Church of Mod (Reformed)

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