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 Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:39 pm
So, the GP precon decklists are on wizards.com (too lazy to include links). Which one(s) do you think are worthy of buying? Which do you think have the best rares/uncommons? Best synergy with the rest of the block so far? If this is in the wrong place please tell me and move this.
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Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:20 pm
im liking the Gruul wilding preconstuct, but as far as synergy goes, i think the Izzet are the best, and best rare/uncommons for the preconstructs i like the Izzet again
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Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:52 pm
the Gruul seem like the best start, but Orzohov would crush Gruul if they got the chance with a couple good boosters.
i don't really know about Izzit. i'm just not seeing as much promise in the guild as in the others.
ther's the first four.
Boro's (nice solid layer upon layer of creatures with varying abilities)
Selyesna (nice solid blend of small and large creatures with a nice slant for cost)
Golgari (everyone was expecting graveyard base for G/B so no surprises)
Dimir (pretty much expected as to what the guild would be like after a couple sneak peeks)
then the guildpact ones.
Gruul (green combines low cost with nice cards, and red packs fast cards, i know how well they work together, it's good)
Orzohov (the backstory of the guild makes sense, everything about this guild makes sense)
Izzit
whta is there really to do except give the creatures abilities to make them faster, more maneuverable, or more damaging?
as for spells, there is counter, draw, and damage. honesty there isn't a whole lot that can be done about master spellcasters in the burn and response department.
R and U don't even run enough synergy. their spells are meant to be played for different reasons.
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:27 am
The Gruul seem like the most potent, especially for a good, no-nonsense beatdown. Orzhov seems ok, but methinks good strong pulls from boosters is what it will take to really bring them into the groove. The Izzet are probably weak by themselves, but have potential, particularly if teamed up with at least one guild it shares a color with. An Izzet/Gruul alliance would be potent!
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:50 am
Angelic Celestia The Gruul seem like the most potent, especially for a good, no-nonsense beatdown. Orzhov seems ok, but methinks good strong pulls from boosters is what it will take to really bring them into the groove. The Izzet are probably weak by themselves, but have potential, particularly if teamed up with at least one guild it shares a color with. An Izzet/Gruul alliance would be potent! thats my take on it too, or what about a Izzit/Dimir deck? but yeah, Gruul seems like it would win the most in a stand alone game of Guildpact Deck wars. Orozhov does run the problem that most of it's creatures best attributes are it's haunt effect, my thoughts are that Orzohov and Selysena would be great. Gruul would be great (for those of you who play free) with war elementals (it's effect is practlically the same) but they would be great with just about any deck that shares a color with them.
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:25 pm
It seems we agree that the Izzet are probably more suited for a support role, in conjunction with another guild it shares a color with.
I'm also looking forward to Dissension, as well. ^^;; I wonder what the red/black guys will bring to the table ...
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:57 pm
Rakados (The red/black guild as previewed on Magic Arcana) will probably bring the hatred down upon the creature world and be the only guild with a guild leader that can contend (power toughness wise) with Borborgymos. (not counting Szadek who after one swing can take down mr. cyclops) but yeah I look forward to Rakados, and the white blue and blue green. all in all they saved the best color combinations for the last.
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:48 am
I imagine post-Dissension Type Two will be amazing. 3nodding And, I hope that the next block will be even better, as they really blew off the roof with Ravnica. ^_^
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:31 pm
Dissident will bring down pain on previous guilds. i'm thinking Izzit just isn't really going to make the cut as a top five guild.
with RB, GU, and WU coming, things are going to be extremely interesting.
Gruul will probably still be a great guild, jsut due to the fact that a single ping can make the rest of your creatures freaking huge for their cost. a 4/2 for 3?
the rakdos is going to be a little power hungry as guilds go, i'm seeing pain creatures (things that are good if you feel like taking damage) and massive good effects due to certain situations.
but yeah, i'm sure that Gruul will be great for the block tournies.
Green/Red, they have in their arsenal, ways to fix any problem (fix= blow up)
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:36 am
Ok. Time for a COMPARISON!
Guilds Precons Mechanic
Guildpact Guildpact Guildpact
1. Orzhov 1. Orzhov 1. Gruul
2. Gruul 2. Izzet 2. Izzet
3. Izzet 3. Gruul 3. Orzhov
Ravnica Ravnica Ravnica
1. Golgari 1. Boros 1. Golgari
2. Boros 2. Selesnya 2. Dimir
3. Selesnya 3. Golgari 3. Selesnya
4. Dimir 4. Dimir 4. Boros
Comments? Complaints? I'll be glad to explain my reasoning, if asked.
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Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:25 pm
why?
Ravinca Guilds.
i think Dimir ranks higher then that. it's got the cards to take full control of the game, without delay or exception.
Boros as a guild takes full advantage of all creatures with Radience.
Selesyna can get massive things on the board for practically nothing, it's like the staircase effect. the more you go, the greater you can play you dobn't need the extra land even then.
Golgari, you have loads of spells, and eventaully your going to run out of deck, but by then your opponent is probably dead.
i personally think that best to worst in Ravinca it's: Dimir, Boros, Selesyna, and Golgari.
precon wise it's a bit different.
Boros and Dimir tie, with Sylesna, then Golgari in last again.
and mechanic wise: Dimir, Golgari, Sylesna and finally Boros (due thot ehf act that in multiplayer format, probably anotger player is useing R or W)
with Guildpact here.
just guildpact at the moment.
Best guild.
Orzohov, Gruul and Izzit tie.
Precon.
Orzohov, Gruul, Izzit (poor izzit hsa too much based on playing spells, and when the hand runs out, so then do the best creature effects)
Mechanic: Gruul, Izit, Orzohov
Gruul gets bigger, and the guild is based on smashoing thigns as mucha s possible.
Izzit can duplicate spells as many times as they can pay the replicate cost.
and Orzohov...can play a spell or effect...twice.
overall out of the seven guilds i've seen (remember dissident is still at large along with all the goodies in it.)
best guilds: Orzohov, Dimir, Gruul, Selesyna, Golgari, Izzit, and Boros.
Best precons: Dimir, Gruul, Orzohov, Golgari, Boros, Izzit, Selesyna
Best mechanic: Izzit, Orzohov, Selesyna, Gruul, Dimir, Golgari, Boros
thigns change when comparing with other guilds, effects become obsolete, and guilds might not work as well against the newer ones.
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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:41 am
ok so am i the only one that likes the izzet guild ???
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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 4:49 am
Oh, I LIKE the Izzet well enough, I just don't think they're good. The precon is decent, though.
Guildpact:
Guilds:
1. Orzhov
This actually is very close to the Gruul, so I'm not sure which is better. The Orzhov have lots of control effects, and haunt is actually very powerful, as it's free, and you can choose to off it when it's advantageous to you, but the Gruul make very efficient aggro, with Burning-Tree Shaman, Rumbling Slum, Scab-Clan Mauler, and the like.
2. Gruul
See above
3. Izzet
The Izzet have the same problem as the Dimir. They aren't focused enough. In thix case, half the Izzet cards pull towards aggro w/ combat tricks(Wee Dragonauts, Schismotivate), a handful pull towards winning with spells(Pyromatics, Train of Thought, Invoke the FireMind), and a couple lean to control(Niv-Mizzet, Tibor and Lumia). It just doesn't have enough in any one category.
Precons
1. Orzhov
The Orzhov deck has good rares, GREAT uncommons, for the most part, and solid commons, though the consistency isn't great. More importantly, it's actually very synergistic.
2. Izzet
The uncommons and rares in this deck aren't fantastic, but they're decent, and the commons are completely awesome.
3. Gruul
This deck, they seem to have tried to screw up in as many ways as possible. They could have put Ulasht in instead of Borborygmos, who is far worse, and Wurmweaver coil is only ANY good at all(and not very) in a mono-green deck. It's got a mini-aura theme, pulling away from the beatdown, so it doesn't do either well. And the common choices are poor, at best.
Mechanic
1. Bloodthirst
Here's where the Gruul lead the pack, as bloodthirst can be veryb powerful, though there aren't a lot of playable cards with the ability right now.
2.Replicate
This is the same thing. Powerful mechanic, not a lot of cards that make good use of it. Plus, they made the mistake of always making replicate cost=mana cost. They would have had much more freedom if they hadn't.
3.Haunt
Useful, but limited. Decent cards get it this time, though.
Ravnica
Guilds
1. Golgari
The Golgari is basically this big ball of synergy. Everything works with everything else. That's all there is to it, really.
2.Boros
The Boros is also very focused towards an aggressive approach. There's a couple of oddball control cards, but mostly the guild is oriented to a weenie overrush strategy.
3. Selesnya
Selesnya is interesting because it can be played several ways. There's Weenie rush, convoked fatties, or Ghazi-Glare(Which is doing very well competitively) they also all get enough cards to work with, because the themes sort of overlap, unlike in
4. Dimir
This guild has a dichotomy. Half is focused at milling and half at aggro. The two have nothing in common, and neither get enough good cards.
Precons
1. Boros
There are some really weird card choices in this one(Cyclopean snare?) But it includes Sunforger and a ton of cards playable with it. So it has synergy, of a sort.
2. The Selesnya deck actually has reasonably good rares, and the commons and uncommons are alright as well. It also has a clear-cut goal. So, it's mediocre, but not bad.
3. The Golgari deck is the bare bones of a semi-competitive Graveyard-filling deck. It's not built right, but there's a start.
4. Dimir
Same problem as the guild itself. Bad rares, and confusion over what it wants to do.
Mechanic
1. Golgari
Dredge is amazing. It's godly. You don't even need to play the spell, just use it to get cards in your graveyard to feed a psychatog or an ichorid or any number of great things. All you have to realize is that the dredge doesn't have a cost. It has an advantage. If anything, the drawback is having to get it into your graveyard, through discard or somesuch.
2. Dimir
Transmute is actually good, unlike the rest of the guild. Tutoring is a Good Thing.
3.Selesnya
Convoke can be useful, I suppose...
4. Boros
unlike Radiance, which is far too swingy.
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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:59 am
but for guildpact guilds you forget that each has it's own advantages. depending on what piece of the guild strategy you specalize in you might have trouble defeating either of the other guilds.
Guilds: (really for this one it's what you specialize in, not the overall cards, there isn't any reason to weild one of each card in your deck)
Orzohov based on controlling can't beat a Gruul Beatdown, but Orzohov based on just beating down with anything, and having Haunt as a srecondary thing, something to annoy, makes it neat Gruul. Gruul can beat Izzit wiht superior force eralier on, and Izzit can beat Orzohov with mass spells while Orzohov can beat Izzit due to haunt being free.
precon:
Orzohov, is good, but it's well roundedness forces you to either remake it if you want to specialize or just stick with the well roundedness and skip creating a control or beat. it's got the difficulty that building a deck you can't have enough of either to have the advantage in both.
Izzit, same problem, it's got good cards, but an insufficent supply of creatures with effects that do more then add to a spells effect by one of their own. they don't have enough when it comes to winning in any specific strategy. not enough burns, and not enough counters for control. it's sort of mashed strategies.
Gruul: it is a little messed up. but it's also got the well roundedness that the Orzohov have. it can't win with any one strategy except for pure aggro. and even then it's got insufficent supply for it's aggro to work properly. this precon is probably the first one that you dismantle and remake either based on the Bloodthirst, or skip the bloodthirst completely and go for the pure aggro.
Mechanic:
Gruul: it is great, reminds me of the wzr elemental, but then there is the unique problem that there isn't quite enough cards that allow for quick damage every turn in the block, so you need to play a second spell if you want the bloodthirst to be really good, or have lots of tramplers.
Izzit: it does become expensive, so usually only one replicate happens, and Blue is always the control color (well, more then any other color usually) so having extra untapped lands is a key component, mixing this with cards that give you alternate mana sources is pretty important, and R/U doesn't seem to have a lot of this.
Orzohov: Haunt is truely awesome, but it also lacks the elegance of Black. it gets an effect, twice. so what? it's free te second time. again, so what? mostly you will end up trying to kill the creature you haunted, just so you get the second haunt effect.
Ravinca
Guilds:
Golgari: while it's true that they do havce synergy with themselves (dredging dropping dredge cards) you run the risk of House Dimir, or jsut about anythign taht wants you to shrink your deck, it's that problem that you have to worry about, the more cards you dredge, the smaller your deck (somewhat raising your options, but then you have to worry about having to draw cards) it's good, but the problem lies in Dimir, or even Izzit and Orzohov.
Boros: yeah, Boros is aggro weenie, Selesyna works in a extremely basic similar strategy (weenie play stuff thats bigger later) but the radience at the moment can be as helpful sa hurtful. you might not even be playing the same guild and run half the same color.
Selesyna: reminds me of everything having T: add 1(of a certain type) to your mana pool for the current spell. its nice, but you need to thin about the fact that wihtout Convoke the guild is just one overpriced spell after another. so it keeps the problem of not getting enough cards for it's mechanic to function properly.
Dimir:
Dimir does run a lot of overpriced cards, and it is far too divided as a guild to be effective in both aggro and mill.
Precons:
Boros: Boros hsa the probelm of walls, after walls are in play, there isn't much they can do, their aggro strategy needs to beat the opponent sneselssly with a mixture of spells and creatures, while thedeck is good at showing it and using that. it runs the problem of meeting something i can't radience beat, or beat up. ususlaly it'll get rid of the problem prior to it showing up, but it does run a lot of help cards (basically synergy, but it's individual cards to help the deck, not another card, or cards)
Selesyna: i've noticed that Selesynsa's best strategy is to avoid convoke cards really all-together, the best cards for Selesyna are the 1-4 costing cards. anything above that is really to expensive wighout OCnvoke, and by tokens and -5 costing cards, it's not hard to beat the stuffing out of your opponents, yeah Bramble elemental is an exception, but it's not a guild card. so it's good, but there are just too many high costing cards.
take Overwhenl for example. for 5GG creatures you controll get +3/+3.
thats nice, really overcosting compared to that nice sorcery that costed 3GG creatures you control get +3/+3 and trample until end of turn. convoke means you lose your attacking edge byt tapping at least 2 creatures to match it, and you still don't have trample.
Golgari, Dimir: Golgari and Dimir both have the same type of precon, it's basic and has two strategies that don't mix with each other, so the precon just gives you a base and you decide where you want it to go from there.
Mechanic:
Golgari: again, problem is Dimir, other then that, they have the advantage of pickand choosing what card they "Draw". Golgari makes a crazy Lhurgoyf Deck. (both Mortivore and Lhurgoyf got +1/+1 for each creature in your graveyard, Mortivore had Regenerate: B, and Lhurgoyf had 0/+1) honestly i see no fault here, but it runs the risk of not getting the cards you need fast enough. Golgari brownscale is a nice example. it's ability to gain two life is incredible. and you can replay it, but there are so many better cards yto dredge. after you get a better card to dredge, the other ones become obsolete, you can dredge instead of drawing, but thats it, no other way can those dead things really do you a great deal of good.
Dimir: Yeah Tutoring for a specific cost is a bit worse then the tutor itself, but it's about the closest thing we'll ever see to the tutor.
Selesyna: see above comment about how Convoke can suck, or be good.
Boros: see above comment on how Radience and colors don't mix. use Artifact here.
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Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:03 am
Tohma. i can see we have both done our reasearch, and have specific taste in what we like in the Ravinva guild set. i realize that i won't change your opinion, and you probably realize that you can't change mine. bit i can easily see where you stand, and you probably likewise.
there are lots of cards that i have looked at while formulating my answers, and i see different uses for different guilds. also i think each guild will have a weakness guild and a strength guild.
such as Golgari beating the snot out of one +guild, but overall losing to a good Dimir mill.
same with every other guild, each is gonna be able to beat one guild with one strategy, adn another guild with a different strategy in it's core.
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