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Death Penalty: please read first post before voting
for it
31%
 31%  [ 10 ]
against it
31%
 31%  [ 10 ]
mixed ground
37%
 37%  [ 12 ]
Total Votes : 32


chaoticpuppet
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:00 pm


While this may not neccesarily have much to do with religion, it has a lot to do with morals, which are largely affected by ones religion/spirituality.

How do you feel about the death penalty, why?

If you are against it that means that you are 100% against it, that there is never a need for it, not treason, not murder, not anything

If you are for it, that means that you find that there is at least one crime worth the death penalty, treason, murder, rape, etc.

Now, it is also possible to be on mixed ground, meaning that you find that the military can execute war criminals for certain reasons, and even members of the nations own military for certain reasons such as treason. But it is not ok for there to be criminal execution outside of the military. (you could also go vice versa, and if you do, I would really like to see your logic behind that).

Edit: if you say absolutely no death penalty, put in a solution that seems logically viable.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:04 pm


I guess you could say I'm on mixed ground. I strongly disagree with "an eye for an eye" because, as they say, "an eye for an eye makes the world blind".

Son of Axeman
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:15 pm


Against. Very against. A life is a life. Killing is killing. Sure maybe they don't deserve to live, but it's not our right as humans with faults to determine who lives and who dies.

Sorry to quote the bible, I'm not Christian but it's a quote I really like, and try to live by; "Let he without sin cast the first stone."

Let's say you're a parent, you want to teach your kids certain things, correct? If they stole something, you don't teach them not to steal by in turn stealing something. If you want to teach them not to hit their kids, you don't hit them. Why would the government expect to teach the citizens not to kill people when in turn it is doing the same thing?

The death penalty is hypocritical. At the government's hands many people have died, many more people than some of the murder's have killed themselves.

I don't condone what they've done, nor do I think it's "okay" however by instituting a system which practices and condones killing people itself, you cannot expect any less from the citizens by which it rules. You also cannot say that such a system cuts down the rate of crime or murder, as the rate is far lower in Canada than it is in the States and yet we do not have capital punishment ourselves.

In order to expect something of someone else, you yourself must live by those same principals. For the government to set laws which state that killing another human is wrong they themselves must also live by these same standards.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:32 pm


toxic_lollipop
Against. Very against. A life is a life. Killing is killing. Sure maybe they don't deserve to live, but it's not our right as humans with faults to determine who lives and who dies.

Sorry to quote the bible, I'm not Christian but it's a quote I really like, and try to live by; "Let he without sin cast the first stone."

Let's say you're a parent, you want to teach your kids certain things, correct? If they stole something, you don't teach them not to steal by in turn stealing something. If you want to teach them not to hit their kids, you don't hit them. Why would the government expect to teach the citizens not to kill people when in turn it is doing the same thing?

The death penalty is hypocritical. At the government's hands many people have died, many more people than some of the murder's have killed themselves.

I don't condone what they've done, nor do I think it's "okay" however by instituting a system which practices and condones killing people itself, you cannot expect any less from the citizens by which it rules. You also cannot say that such a system cuts down the rate of crime or murder, as the rate is far lower in Canada than it is in the States and yet we do not have capital punishment ourselves.

In order to expect something of someone else, you yourself must live by those same principals. For the government to set laws which state that killing another human is wrong they themselves must also live by these same standards.

Well, about teaching kids not to hit their kids by not hitting them, that may not necessarily work. When I was younger, I got hit for being bad, since then, I myself have vowed that if I ever had kids I would never hit them. So, that may not always work.

What about in the case of treason, where one is literally selling not just military secrets, but every single life of every single citizen in that nation? How would you treat them?

chaoticpuppet
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JenJen03

PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:36 pm


I'm very against the death penalty.
I just don't see any real evidence that it does anything that life in prison wouldn't do.
Except that perhaps killing a person would maybe quench a person's thirst for revenge... stare

My personal motto comes from Fiddler on the Roof...

Quote:
"An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth!" "Wonderful! And then the whole world will be blind and toothless!"
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:44 pm


chaoticpuppet

Well, about teaching kids not to hit their kids by not hitting them, that may not necessarily work. When I was younger, I got hit for being bad, since then, I myself have vowed that if I ever had kids I would never hit them. So, that may not always work.

What about in the case of treason, where one is literally selling not just military secrets, but every single life of every single citizen in that nation? How would you treat them?

I would put them in prison. Period.

What I think is that both Canada and the U.S. need to make life in prison LIFE IN PRISON. Not this life in prison = 25 years crap. It makes me so angry.

Edit: About the hitting comment. I don't think at the time your parents were trying to teach you not to hit your kids, that's the difference. And I mean some people it may teach them that, but the majority of abusers were at one point abused in their life as well.

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chaoticpuppet
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:46 pm


x_Jezza_x
I'm very against the death penalty.
I just don't see any real evidence that it does anything that life in prison wouldn't do.
Except that perhaps killing a person would maybe quench a person's thirst for revenge... stare

My personal motto comes from Fiddler on the Roof...

Quote:
"An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth!" "Wonderful! And then the whole world will be blind and toothless!"


Again, I will bring up treason, where one is selling the lives and safety of every citizen in the nation, and gravely endangering the nation.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:51 pm


chaoticpuppet
x_Jezza_x
I'm very against the death penalty.
I just don't see any real evidence that it does anything that life in prison wouldn't do.
Except that perhaps killing a person would maybe quench a person's thirst for revenge... stare

My personal motto comes from Fiddler on the Roof...

Quote:
"An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth!" "Wonderful! And then the whole world will be blind and toothless!"


Again, I will bring up treason, where one is selling the lives and safety of every citizen in the nation, and gravely endangering the nation.


smile lol I'm a complete pacifist, so yeah... I still say no.

But I suppose I can *sorta* understand the other side.

smile

JenJen03


Cyanna

PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:54 pm


I'd have to say mixed...saying I'm totally against it looks very nice and compassionate in writing.


But it's just one of those things where my opinion could totally change if a person committed a capital crime and hurt someone I loved. I'm only human. I don't know what I would do in that situation and I hope I will never have to find out.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:53 pm


toxic_lollipop
chaoticpuppet

Well, about teaching kids not to hit their kids by not hitting them, that may not necessarily work. When I was younger, I got hit for being bad, since then, I myself have vowed that if I ever had kids I would never hit them. So, that may not always work.

What about in the case of treason, where one is literally selling not just military secrets, but every single life of every single citizen in that nation? How would you treat them?

I would put them in prison. Period.

What I think is that both Canada and the U.S. need to make life in prison LIFE IN PRISON. Not this life in prison = 25 years crap. It makes me so angry.

Edit: About the hitting comment. I don't think at the time your parents were trying to teach you not to hit your kids, that's the difference. And I mean some people it may teach them that, but the majority of abusers were at one point abused in their life as well.


Technically this life in prison deal is deicided by the severity of the crime. for example Charles Manson, he was technically supposed to be executed, but stuff happened (U.S. flirting w/ cap. punsihment/no cap. punishment) and Manson got out of it, now he is in prison for life (meaning until he dies).

Secondly, lets say you and I lived in the same country, and I literally sold not just your life, but your families and friends life, as well as everyone elses in the nation, to an enemy nation, or even a terrorist. You are saying you would be perfectly fine with me only recieving life in prison (using the definition of life in prison, to mean I stay there till I die), and you would not want to see my life ended? Keep in mind, no matter how secure the prison is, there is still a chance that I can escape, no matter how small it is, it is there. Whereas, after I am executed, I can not come back, and repeat my actions.

chaoticpuppet
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:37 pm


chaoticpuppet

Technically this life in prison deal is deicided by the severity of the crime. for example Charles Manson, he was technically supposed to be executed, but stuff happened (U.S. flirting w/ cap. punsihment/no cap. punishment) and Manson got out of it, now he is in prison for life (meaning until he dies).

Secondly, lets say you and I lived in the same country, and I literally sold not just your life, but your families and friends life, as well as everyone elses in the nation, to an enemy nation, or even a terrorist. You are saying you would be perfectly fine with me only recieving life in prison (using the definition of life in prison, to mean I stay there till I die), and you would not want to see my life ended? Keep in mind, no matter how secure the prison is, there is still a chance that I can escape, no matter how small it is, it is there. Whereas, after I am executed, I can not come back, and repeat my actions.


Not in Canada. In Canada life in prison means 25 years, maximum you can parole before that. However you can be given mulitple life sentences. I think we worry too much about rehabilitating people sometimes, and so we get caught up in this idea, which actually won't work in reality. Life in prison should mean life.

And yes, I would be fine with you only getting life in prison. Why would you be getting the death penalty? Because you had put other's LIVES at risk. By stating that what you did was wrong and then taking your life it is hypocritical. By killing someone the government is devaluing people's lives and cannot therefore make a rule that it is wrong to kill someone. You must abide by the rules you set before you can expect anyone else to abide by them.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:55 pm


toxic_lollipop
Not in Canada. In Canada life in prison means 25 years, maximum you can parole before that. However you can be given mulitple life sentences. I think we worry too much about rehabilitating people sometimes, and so we get caught up in this idea, which actually won't work in reality. Life in prison should mean life.

Technically, 25 yrs could be considered life because it is a little over the time period that is considered a generation.

toxic_lollipop
And yes, I would be fine with you only getting life in prison. Why would you be getting the death penalty? Because you had put other's LIVES at risk. By stating that what you did was wrong and then taking your life it is hypocritical. By killing someone the government is devaluing people's lives and cannot therefore make a rule that it is wrong to kill someone. You must abide by the rules you set before you can expect anyone else to abide by them.


Now, there is a difference between saying that, and meaning it. I am not making a judgement about you personally, but most people will say something like that, but when it hits them personally, they automatically change their minds. Again, I am not saying you are like that, just that there are a lot of people out there like that.

Now, what if I were an important enough member of whatever gorup that sold your lives, and they came to rescue me, and I did it all over agian?

chaoticpuppet
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Psychedelic Midnight

PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:43 pm


I believe that the death penalty is acceptable only when there is no way to otherwise prevent the offender from harming society again. In today's society, I believe it is wrong--life in prison should replace the death penalty.
However, I don't mean "life" as in 25 years and then they're free, or life until bail/parole/whatever comes into the picture; I mean they should stay in jail, "rehabilitated" or not, until they are stone cold dead.

I can only hope that I would be able to forgive someone if they did something terrible to a person I loved.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:58 pm


I said I was on middle ground. This is mostly because I can very clearly see both sides of the issue, and am absolutely, completely, 100% undecided. I simply do not know.

If one knew what happened after death, for certain, it may be easier to make a decision, but we do not. No one does. We can believe, we can have faith, but we don't know - which really is the whole point of having faith.

I can see how, for example, executing a murderer because s/he killed someone would be hypocritical, as toxic said.

But I can also see how it's perfectly reasonable.

So this post has no real point, I've made no contribution to either side of the argument... but it's one of those big issues. One of the few I'm undecided on.

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chessiejo

PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:53 pm


i do not believe we have the privilege of taking life.

if another has taken life, that is their sin. we ought not compound it by doing the same.

this for me includes not only capital punishment but warmaking as well as the use of abortion as an option for birth control (in other words, for non-health reasons).
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Morality and Ethics

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