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Blizzard on: balancing, and the new patch. Goto Page: 1 2 [>] [»|]

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Opinion on upcoming changes?
  I think it's good.
  I think it's bad.
  I don't really care.
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Primity Aurora
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:43 pm


taken from TeamLiquid:
(NOTE: these aren't the final changes and it will be at least one or two months until the next patch. these changes are not permanent and may be subject to change in the future.)
Blizzard
We're increasing roach range. This will allow roaches to be more effective in large groups, giving the zerg more options in the mid to end game.

Fungal Growth will now prevent Blink, which will give zerg a way to stop endlessly Blinking stalkers which can be very challenging to deal with in large numbers.

The Barracks are going to require a Supply Depot, which will impact a lot of early terran reaper pushes.

The reaper speed upgrade will require the Factory, which is meant to weaken a lot of the early terran reaper attacks that dominate so many matches, especially in team games.

We're making a number of increases to the health of zerg buildings, which will make the very vulnerable zerg technology structures more resistant to raids. We don’t expect these hit point changes to have a super significant impact on the game, but the current numbers felt way too low.


i personally think Blizzard is screwing up really badly here. a lot of Zerg continue to complain about how "overpowered" Terran is, but seriously the matchup is fine and balanced.

my overall opinion on the initial points: Roaches don't need a buff. they're an extremely durable unit that is made to counter lighter ones through superior health and armor, as well as numbers by cost-effectiveness. increasing their already high fighting potential is setting them on the borderline of overpowered. Roach range is currently 3. if they're really going to increase range, I seriously think it should only be set to 3.5, with 4 being my opinionated maximum range. anything higher, I think, is imbalanced.

all Terran rushes are dead now. with Supply Depot being a required prerequisite for Barracks, Terran will be near-useless as far as early-game harass. the psychological threat of potential rushes is completely diminished, allowing opponents to build up or expand without the fear of such threats. BBS will be eliminated, making Terran substantially weaker in team games.

the other changes I could care less about. i have neither perceived the thought of making Infestors vs P, or even Blink Stalkers vs Z for that matter. i enjoy the fact that Blizzard continues to limit the usage of Reapers, and it does make a little bit of sense to give a very minor health bonus to Zerg tech buildings. but the Roach and Barracks changes are a little too extreme, and to be honest it kind of frustrates me a little. i don't know where the idea got into their heads but it's seriously not the best response in dealing with the ZvT "imbalance."

opinions?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:10 pm


[Original Blizzard Post]

Personally I think the range increase on the Roach is a good buff, but beyond that they don't need anything. Maybe a slight armor increase to help them stand up against Marauders/Stalkers for more than a couple shots, but even that's pushing it. As for the Barracks "nerf", I don't see this hurting them at all. Whether it being part of the wall or simply for food the Supply Depot would be built before the Barracks anyway. If anything, the only thing I see this nerf doing is pushing back the proxy Barracks by a few seconds nothing more.

I'm with you on most everything else. I hadn't even realized I never build Infestors against Protoss. And I never use Fungal Growth anyway, opting to use my energy on Infested Terrans. xd

Immortal Nobody
Crew


Primity Aurora
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:04 pm


totally unrelated, but I saw you had some art being made at Moke Moo Moo's. i'm totally jealous.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:36 pm


Sweet, more zerg buffs, personally I kind of like the supply depot before barracks as to prevent any sort of all in reaper cheese, but overall wont have that massive of an effect on the game by anyone playing a sort of standard build.

I think the reaper speed upgrade is kind of cruel, and I don't overall approve of it, also I can sort of understand the roach range, but anymore than a VERY slight range increase I consider to be too much. Roach's strength lies in their ability to tank damage really well more so then their range.

I feel like blizzard is trying too hard to nerf TvZ when really I don't think it's entirely necessary right now, TvZ is more or less balanced in my opinion, or at least a lot more than it was.

I think Protoss overall needs a minor nerf, just something to compete against that overwhelmingly popular 4 gate build right now, either by making warpgates slower to get (perhaps after twilight council) or increase the warp in time on units or something of that sort.

C4D
Captain

Newbie Noob


Evataph

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:22 pm


As a zerg player, I'm liking the buffs, but I think the reapers speed upgrade change was unnecessary. They seem almost completely useless now.

And by the Barracks/Supply Depot thing, do they mean the Barracks is going to use up supply, or that you have to build a depot next to them?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:47 pm


Bi Dent
totally unrelated, but I saw you had some art being made at Moke Moo Moo's. i'm totally jealous.
eek
User Image
Wait, are you post stalking me? xd

Eva: It would mean they'd need to build a Supply Depot befor they could build a Barracks.

Immortal Nobody
Crew


Primity Aurora
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:32 pm


@Immortal: no, actually. Moomoo's Avatar Art thread is still on my list of subscriptions. i myself tried to get some art done there, but to no avail. she's becoming increasingly popular, and she was already to begin with. it's the quality of her work, really. it's very clean, and coupled with comparatively low prices, it's a very good deal. some time ago she had a bunch requests within the 3 minutes or so that she opened the slots, mine included. mine wasn't selected, unfortunately, nor would she accept my 100k bribe. maybe one of these days, though.

@Eva: it'll be a prerequisite. you're aware of what we're talking about, you just don't understand what it is. think "Mutalisk requires Spire," except now "Barracks require Supply Depot."
PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:50 pm


I rarely use reapers and with these possibles changes, I will pretty much never use them. Perhaps as a scout, but other than that, no use for them.

I'm not so sure about the roach buff, but I do like the increase hit points idea for zerg structures.

I'm not a fan of cheese or proxy plays, so the supply depot requirement for barracks is not that big of a deal for me.
Most of my builds start with a supply depot anyways.

I think these Terran nerfs will only make Terran players turtle in their base more often during the early game instead of being aggressive from the start.

Vesi Meres

Thankful Deckhand


Immortal Nobody
Crew

PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:26 am


Dent: Oh lol. This is the third time I've posted an order. Honestly thought I was gonna get blacklisted cuz I barked at one of her friends that gave me lip about being a couple seconds early. xD

On topic: When you wanna practice again, lemme know. I'm always up for it. 3nodding
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:15 pm


Oh, well that's not bad at all then.

Evataph


kenjiro yume
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:50 am


Sup everyone. Short bit of time on the old Interwebs! (and hi from the Philippines!)

So I may as well give my two cents here: the biggest thing is, upgrading roach range means they DON'T need to change reapers again at all, I think. Their build time was a sufficient change by far. And as far as the tech structure HP goes, it will probably not make much of a difference. And if it's not making a difference, they could find other things to change. But keep in mind that these are only a few things. I fully expect this list to be less solidified than the last one was. These changed are so much shakier over all.

Oh, but I don't like the supply depot requirement. That was never an issue in BW and it shouldn't be here. There are so many better ways to change something. You shouldn't nerf the marine rush as well.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:57 pm


Well! Pretty much everything they said would happen happened. xd

Immortal Nobody
Crew


C4D
Captain

Newbie Noob

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:13 pm


That kind of came without warning, I mean we knew it was coming, but it sort of just showed up suddenly.

LET'S DISCUSS!! =D

The one that interests me the most in particular is the void ray nerf.

Seems pretty severe not only are they now going to charge slower, but they are also going to do less damage in charged mode.

Is this a change made to stop players from charging off of their own units/buildings, or is it simply because Blizzard considered the voidray too powerful?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:25 pm


Also I'm fairly certain the Thor and Corruptor change was made with Protoss in mind giving them another (though fairly insignificant) nerf.

They did this because both the cannon and corruption ability are seldom used at all, meaning they will consistently be banking energy leaving them vulnerable to a feedback, with the new change this will no longer become an issue in the slightest.

C4D
Captain

Newbie Noob


Immortal Nobody
Crew

PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 3:56 pm


My thoughts exactly. Feedback is effectively useless now. xd
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