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 Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:49 pm
First off let me say that I am a christian, and have been for all my life. I was raised Baptist, and I met this guy that I fell madly in love with. Everything was going well at first. He was Methodist, which didn't bother me any at all. His grandfather was a Methodist Preacher. So my guy had been raised protestant too. But one night, he was doing research on the internet, and found this other religion, called Orthodox. He started getting interested in it, and decided to find a church local to us, because he wanted to check it out. He claimed that God lead him to this religion, and I never understood it. Anywho, he started going to this church more and more. He finally quit his grandparents church, and started getting all strict, and dead set in these new beliefs. His parents, grandparents, friends, or me, just didn't understand. He started changing completely, and everything went down hill from there. I was in love with him, but we just couldn't get along. He tried to force his religion on me, and he said that if we married, I'd have to agree to have his kind of wedding, and raise my kids in his beliefs. After two years, we broke up. It hurt us both badly. And we still love each other, but nor my family, his family, or me can see how it'll work out in the future. Do you really thing that two people that different can stay together, get married, and have a successful marriage? I do miss him, but I just don't know if I should go back out with him.
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:45 pm
Hmmmm. This is confusing. There is no religion simply called "Orthodox." It can be one of two main things, either Orthodox Judaism, or Eastern or Oriental Orthodox Christianity. If he became Orthodox Christian, I applaud him and in no way did he join a new religion. It sounds like a typical story of when someone in a family who are majorly protestant converts to Catholicism (many people do not know the actual beliefs of this group). Even though it is not a new religion, the family has a very hard time adjusting or accepting it, and things soon become very strained. It is very hard for people who were raised in one group to understand the beliefs of another group. It is likely that you or any of the family members know very little if anything about this sect. In this case it is Orthodoxy, which if they don't understand Catholicism, they really won't understand Orthodoxy at all. I hope everyone can attempt to come to an understanding on this one and actually see what it really means to be Orthodox.
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:51 pm
(First off let me address a pet peeve of mine. It is impossible for someone to be saved their entire life. Somewhere, sometime, when they actually knew what it meant they had to make a concious decision to accept Jesus as their personal Savior. You cannot be born a Christian.)
Now...in answer to your question: Orthodoxy and the Christianity you practice are very very different. Have you taken the time to find out what his religion is all about, in order to see for sure if it is something you could do?
From what you are saying here....my opinion is no..I do not think it will not work. While a man is supposed to be the "spiritual head of household", he is already showing very little respect for you, or your beliefs, by insisting that it must be his way. (my guess is that this type of "lack of respect" will eventually show itself in other areas as well)
I know of only one couple that had those kind of differences (he was a Messianic Jew- a Jew that believed in Jesus) and she was a Baptist. But from the outset they knew it would only work if they did respect each others beliefs. They have raised their children in both religions..they go to a Christian church and to temple, and they celebrate the Holidays and important days of both religions. As you can imagine, it hasn't been easy, and both have to kind of "bend" their own beliefs in order to accomodate each other.
I THINK if this issue is already causing problems in your relationship, that those problems will only escalate, and that you should move on in finding someone that you can be equally yoked to. Sorry...but that's my opinion.
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:57 pm
I don't have any input for knowledge about ortadox beliefs and whatnot, but I just don't think dating someone with a religion different than yours is in a person's best interest. Because that's just a part of your life (and probably the most biggest, most important part of your life) that the other person can't be a part of. Also, if it's a mother and a father with different beliefs, a child often tries at first to mix them or leaves both of the religions. (but that doesn't at all mean those two people should break up on account of differing religions. That would be against the bible.)
I don't think it should be done, because anyone I would like to share the rest of my life with, I'd like to be able to share everything in my life with, especially my relationship with Jesus Christ.
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 6:50 pm
It seems that there is some confusion here concerning the difference between "religion" and "sect" or "denomination." One can be Baptist, and one can be Methodist, Presbyterian, etc., but they are all not different religions, but merely denominations of Protestantism, which itself is a sect of Christianity. With the author of the thread being Baptist, and her boyfriend most likely converting to Eastern Orthodoxy, they are NOT different religions, but just different sects within the same religion, Christianity.
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Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:26 pm
mike_johnson It seems that there is some confusion here concerning the difference between "religion" and "sect" or "denomination." One can be Baptist, and one can be Methodist, Presbyterian, etc., but they are all not different religions, but merely denominations of Protestantism, which itself is a sect of Christianity. With the author of the thread being Baptist, and her boyfriend most likely converting to Eastern Orthodoxy, they are NOT different religions, but just different sects within the same religion, Christianity.
What does matter (concerning her question) is that what she observes and believes to be truth, is different from what he is insisting that she observes. That's the issue at hand.
While Baptist and Eastern Orthodox both believe that Christ died for their sins, they have very real differences in how they conduct themselves in regards to that belief. For instance those that practice what is generally regarded as "mainstream" Christianity not only do not venerate Saints or Mary they believe that such a practice is wrong, while the Eastern Orthodox hold that the opposite is true. "Mainstream" Christianity believes that the Bible in and of itself is sufficient. Eastern Orthodox uses scripture that is not canonized in addition the the Bible.
Those are just a couple of the differences that could end up causing problems in the future should they decide to marry.
These are not mere denominational differences they are core beliefs. Denominational differences are for instance in worship, and I have seen marriages broken up because one partner believes in the freedom to worship in dance etc. and the other does not. If such an insignifigant issue as this is enough to tear partners apart, the differences between Baptists and Eastern Orthodoxy will most certainly present challenges above and beyond that.
God's design for marriage is that we complete each other, so as to become one in Spirit. IMHO With this type of conflict going into the relationship, as well as his lack of respect for her beliefs, the marriage will be off to a bad start from the beginning.
***( If anyone wants to discuss the differences between the two beliefs any further, it should probably be done in a different topic so as not to take this off course***.)
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Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:30 am
I know the belief systems are different. Although "mainstream Christianity" can have very different meanings in different countries. In America, it could be Evangelical Protestantism, in Italy mainstream Christianity would be Roman Catholicism, and in Greece it would be Greek Orthodoxy. In fact, Orthodoxy would be considered more "mainstream" as it predates Baptist beliefs by over 1,500 years, and Baptists would be considered an offshoot of the mainstream. That term can certainly muddy whatever waters there are. ninja
As for her dilemma, I think this guy is going about things the wrong way. It he indeed believes he has found the One True Church, he should not be as abrasive or forceful with it as he has been. Looking at her post it could be reasoned that she really does not know anything about his Faith, and this likely stems from the fact that instead of teaching and educating her about it, he seems to want a forced conversion. In this case, if he does not shape up and be more kind, then I see no future in a relationship like this. If there was a marriage that came out of this, it would likely be doomed and extremely unhappy for both parties involved. It would be my advice to steer clear and maybe remain friends, although that might be stretching it because he seems to be overbearing in certain aspects, which is never a good thing for any kind of relationship.
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Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 8:49 am
I haven't studied Orthodoxy as much as I have other faiths, but I recall a guy in this guild not too long ago who was Orthodox. He was more interested in saints (who didn't even appear in Scripture) than he was in Jesus. Indeed, he got angry and left when a few of us questioned him about it.
I'm inclined to agree with Deidra and Mike ... who are bickering, but they agree that there's not much hope for such a relationship. Not only are the two faiths so vastly different that they might as well be separate, but (based on your reports) he's showing you (not to mention anyone else around him) very little respect in his stubbornness.
You may be in love with him. I certainly won't fault you for that. But ... and I know no other way to put this ... who do you love more? Him, or Jesus?
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Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:20 am
Well, it looks like your exboyfriend really does not respect you very much, if he tries to force his beliefs on you. Forcing someone has never been effective in winning someone over to Christ. Even Jesus used tact with lost souls, like the woman at the well.
Anywho, I don't think you two can be together and last. As a couple that is aiming for marriage you should have the same views on Christ. As the Bible says, you should not be unequally yoked. Maybe it was just meant for people of different religions, such as one is a Christian, the other is a Buddhist, or a nonbeliever even. But I believe one can also apply it to denominations.
The man is suppose to be the spiritual lead in the family, yes. But the woman in nowhere less important. Your guy didn't seem to appreciate that. I'm sorry to tell you this.
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Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:07 pm
First of all, hello there. Christ is in our midst! I am the guy sigtar_gimp was talking about. I am posting here so that I can offer my viewpoint on things. I will quote her post in various places and offer my views on it as well to see what you think of the situation. First of all, I do believe some of her post was exaggerative because she seemed desperate for what other people think about the situation. No offense to her, of course. That aside...let me start. Quote: First off let me say that I am a christian, and have been for all my life. I was raised Baptist, and I met this guy that I fell madly in love with. Everything was going well at first. He was Methodist, which didn't bother me any at all. His grandfather was a Methodist Preacher. So my guy had been raised protestant too. But one night, he was doing research on the internet, and found this other religion, called Orthodox. He started getting interested in it, and decided to find a church local to us, because he wanted to check it out. He claimed that God lead him to this religion, and I never understood it. Anywho, he started going to this church more and more. He finally quit his grandparents church It is true that I was raised somewhat Methodist. Somewhat being that my grandpa had a falling out with his church and left it, so my family (I live with my grandparents) didn't go to church for at least 8 years. So, saying I was raised Methodist is a bit of a stretch. My grandparents really didn't try to teach me much; I had to learn everything on my own. So, I came to Orthodoxy completely independent of anyone or anything. For a year before I met her, I was researching Orthodoxy on the internet. I looked up the beliefs, traditions, etc. Before we started going out, we both talked about our religions. I told her I was interested in Orthodoxy, but I had no experience in it yet. I told her the beliefs and such, and she seemed to agree with them as well. We started going out about two weeks before my first visit to an Orthodox Church. I asked her what she thought of the situation. She said go ahead and see what it's like and tell her about it. So by the Grace of God, a Church was near my college and near my home. I went to the one at my college first. I indeed felt like God led me to it after this first visit. So, I talked to her about it, and she wanted to come with me to the Church near home. So she came, and she seemed to take up with it a little bit. Much more slowly than I did because I had over a year's worth of research into the Church than she did. I somewhat knew what to expect. She seemed to be weirded out at first, but that is obvious to expect. I asked her if she wanted to quit coming with me, and she said she still wanted to come with me. And, we started going to catechism classes together. My priest and I found that her beliefs were MUCH closer to Orthodox beliefs than to standard Baptist beliefs. For example, Theosis (url is wikipedia explaining Theosis) is much closer to her beliefs on Salvation than the Baptist beliefs on Salvation. She believed in the Saints to a certain extent. She believed in the ever-virginity of the Theotokos (Mary). She didn't believe in the rapture (VERY prevalent throughout my area). She also believed that Jesus was fully God and fully Man (something that my area isn't very well known for believing in). Her parents don't even believe in the divinity of Christ, and they believe in the rapture. Already, you can see how her religious life seemed to be in strife at that point and how she seemed to be a bit interested in Orthodoxy from the beginning. However, she never wanted to convert because she kept saying that wasn't how she was raised. She didn't want to change from the "religion" she had been raised in her whole life. Quote: and started getting all strict, and dead set in these new beliefs. His parents, grandparents, friends, or me, just didn't understand. He started changing completely Okay, the getting all "strict" was an over-zealous thing on my part...I guess it was the newness of the Church to me that made me like this. I seemed to jump into everything and try everything out at once. However, it is like this with all people. If they find something new that interests them, that is all they talk about for a LONG time. For example, when the Twilight series got big, that is all everybody and their mother could talk about for forever (including sigtar_gimp). About all she bought for a few months after she got interest in it was Twilight paraphernalia. And, all she talked about was Twilight. When I got into the Church, a lot of what I bought were Orthodox books, icons, prayer ropes, etc. And, this is all I could talk about. It is the same exact thing. However as time went by, this lessened obviously, but I still wanted to be a part of the Church just as she still loves Twilight but that isn't all she thinks about anymore. Quote: and everything went down hill from there. I was in love with him, but we just couldn't get along. He tried to force his religion on me and he said that if we married, I'd have to agree to have his kind of wedding, and raise my kids in his beliefs As for ALL OF HER POST ALREADY QUOTED ABOVE INCLUDING THE PART JUST QUOTED, all of what she said only happened within the first THREE OR FOUR months of us being together...this encompasses the busiest time of the Church-year. Great Lent and Pascha (Easter). For those who don't know, during this time there are many more Church services, 7-weeks of fasting with 3 preparatory weeks, and a strict examination of yourself to get yourself ready for the Greatest Day of History. So as you can see, our relationship was very young and in the earliest stages. It was still FAR too early to even be talking about marriage and kids, especially with us still being teenagers. Now to the quote, she said we couldn't get along...it is true there was a long while that we couldn't get along. We spent many days arguing. She didn't want me to have an Orthodox marriage unless it were changed (something that is impossible) to suit her needs. She said this because all of her dreams were to have a "normal" wedding. She refused to have the kids raised Orthodox because she said it seemed that I would always say that she was wrong, bad, dumb, etc. For those who don't know, for me to remain Orthodox and for us to be married, I have to have an Orthodox wedding or be excommunicated. She has to have been baptized in the name of the Trinity (which she has). And, we have to agree to raise the kids Orthodox (so the kids can be raised in the Truth). That said, I will cover these and how they were resolved. Our Priest helped us in these moments. We can have BOTH a Protestant and an Orthodox wedding. As long as the Orthodox is last. She agreed on this. He also said that we can raise the kids in BOTH my Church and hers. However, they have to be raised predominately Orthodox so we can fulfill our "oaths?" and "conditions" for us to be married. For instance, they can go to her church say every Wed. and every few Sundays. They are obviously not allowed to take Holy Communion at her church though. The rest of the times (Sat. and the other Sundays) they come to my Church. And sometimes, we would ALL go together. Sometimes to hers and sometimes to mine. This she agreed to. Obviously, all of these plans about how to raise the kids were tentative because marriage was still A LONG way off. The main point of this is that compromises were indeed made on both sides. Quote: After two years, we broke up. It hurt us both badly. And we still love each other, but nor my family, his family, or me can see how it'll work out in the future. Do you really thing that two people that different can stay together, get married, and have a successful marriage? Yes, we did break up after two years and three months...but that is nearly two years after we worked many of our problems out. For that time, nothing was mentioned much at all about religion and the future. When one of us did mention something, we would talk about it (with no arguments this time) and agree. HOWEVER, my grandparents ALWAYS told her that it wasn't going to work out in the future...break up with me. Everytime she talked to them it was like this. There was never a moment of peace from their attacks for her. I truly believe that they influenced her on into her present situation. I believe my grandparents are still bitter toward me at leaving their church and becoming Orthodox. They still fight and attack me at every chance they can get <_>. As for me and her, we still NEVER argue about the Church or beliefs or anything. When either of us has a question about religion, we just ask, and the other replies. There is never any arguing anymore. Obviously, there are things she still can't agree with full-heartedly in the Orthodox Church. However, in the Baptist faith, there are things that she doesn't agree with either. As for her asking if two people can stay together from two different "religions", we both attended a marriage between a Methodist or Baptist man (can't remember anymore) and an Orthodox woman. That was nearly two years ago. They are still together and extremely happy together. So, yes I know it can work out. Is it just coincidence that a Baptist or Methodist man and an Orthodox woman get married just as we were in the worst time of our relationship? I believe that in matters of faith there are no such things as coincidences. Of course such "coincidental" things happen, but they were led by the Holy Spirit and are declared as miracles. Now that my side is presented, I believe that more balanced posts can be made. Sorry for the wall of text as well. Thank you, and God bless!
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Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:59 pm
Interesting. I posted what I could with the little information that I had, but this other side of the story is very much informative. I'll have to read all and then post later after proper contemplation. ninja
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Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:39 am
First of all, Kaj, welcome, and I'm glad to get the other side of the story. I hate working on only a single viewpoint, but on the 'Net, it's what we're used to. kajskorean First of all, I do believe some of her post was exaggerative because she seemed desperate for what other people think about the situation. No offense to her, of course. Hey, that's to be expected. It's only human, and it's why I prefer working with two viewpoints. And I gotta say, I'm glad there's an Orthodox here who's not acting self-righteous and oh-so-spiritual ... and posting stuff the rest of us can't even read with a straight face. We had a guy like that in here a month or so ago (he left, of his own accord, when we started questioning things). At least with you (and you don't seem to be pounding us with your faith), maybe we can get a couple of straight answers -- but that can wait. Now, since I'm at work and really shouldn't be online right now, I can't tackle everything quite as thoroughly as I'd like ... but here's a few highlights. I've no doubt that the others will cover a few things themselves -- and Deidra will probably be more thorough than I. Quote: However, it is like this with all people. If they find something new that interests them, that is all they talk about for a LONG time. For example, when the Twilight series got big, that is all everybody and their mother could talk about for forever (including sigtar_gimp). About all she bought for a few months after she got interest in it was Twilight paraphernalia. And, all she talked about was Twilight. My wife Meadow is the same way. And the Twihards (or just Tards for short ... though I prefer it with an apostrophe, 'tards) have no idea how disgusting, appalling, and overrated we who are not squeeing fangirls find it. Having it shoved down our throats at every turn only turns us away from it, and it's an incredible abuse of our right to not have to put up with this [CENSORED]. It shows us no respect whatsoever. I don't want to lie down beside my wife and see two men looking up at me from her pillow! Kind of like, oh ... beating someone over the head with a new religion, eh? Exactly like that, in fact. Because any time you two go to bed (hypothetically speaking, that is, and not trying to delve into your sex lives) ... that disagreement in your faiths is going to be there in bed with you. Now, for you, new to the religion, trying to collect a whole set of its props ... yeah, perfectly normal. Still obsessive behavior, but it's an obsessive behavior that's considered "normal". I can't fault you for that, especially considering how much NGE stuff I've got myself. I'm a fanboy (but I've sword to commit seppuku if I ever squee. xp ). And the timing of the whole thing ... Quote: As for ALL OF HER POST ALREADY QUOTED ABOVE INCLUDING THE PART JUST QUOTED, all of what she said only happened within the first THREE OR FOUR months of us being together...this encompasses the busiest time of the Church-year. Great Lent and Pascha (Easter). For those who don't know, during this time there are many more Church services, 7-weeks of fasting with 3 preparatory weeks, and a strict examination of yourself to get yourself ready for the Greatest Day of History. So as you can see, our relationship was very young and in the earliest stages. It was still FAR too early to even be talking about marriage and kids, especially with us still being teenagers. Hmm ... I'm a lousy judge of when's the right time to discuss marriage, so I can't speak on that. But as you point out, all of these events are close together, so we can't fault you if they seemed rapid-fire to Sigtar. That's just pure coincidence. Now ... here's where it gets nasty. And understand, please, I'm not defending her because she's Protestant (or claims to be, anyway), nor am I attacking you because you're not. Quote: Now to the quote, she said we couldn't get along...it is true there was a long while that we couldn't get along. We spent many days arguing. She didn't want me to have an Orthodox marriage unless it were changed (something that is impossible) to suit her needs. She said this because all of her dreams were to have a "normal" wedding. She refused to have the kids raised Orthodox because she said it seemed that I would always say that she was wrong, bad, dumb, etc. For those who don't know, for me to remain Orthodox and for us to be married, I have to have an Orthodox wedding or be excommunicated. She has to have been baptized in the name of the Trinity (which she has). And, we have to agree to raise the kids Orthodox (so the kids can be raised in the Truth). That said, I will cover these and how they were resolved. Our Priest helped us in these moments. We can have BOTH a Protestant and an Orthodox wedding. As long as the Orthodox is last. She agreed on this. He also said that we can raise the kids in BOTH my Church and hers. However, they have to be raised predominately Orthodox so we can fulfill our "oaths?" and "conditions" for us to be married. For instance, they can go to her church say every Wed. and every few Sundays. They are obviously not allowed to take Holy Communion at her church though. The rest of the times (Sat. and the other Sundays) they come to my Church. And sometimes, we would ALL go together. Sometimes to hers and sometimes to mine. This she agreed to. Obviously, all of these plans about how to raise the kids were tentative because marriage was still A LONG way off. The main point of this is that compromises were indeed made on both sides. A lot of compromises on both sides, eh? Let's have a closer look at a few. Okay, she isn't forced to outwardly convert ... that's good, that's good. And you're allowed to keep your faith ... good. But that's about the only "good" I can see in this whole thing. Quote: She refused to have the kids raised Orthodox because she said it seemed that I would always say that she was wrong, bad, dumb, etc. ... He also said that we can raise the kids in BOTH my Church and hers. However, they have to be raised predominately Orthodox so we can fulfill our "oaths?" and "conditions" for us to be married ... They are obviously not allowed to take Holy Communion at her church though. So, in short, the kids have to be Orthodox. What she, the mother, wants for her kids ... isn't important. And never mind what happens if the kids hit the age of majority and decide they don't like either faith. I've seen that kind of thing before. Protestants don't have them, but it seems that Catholics, Orthodox, (I think) Jews, and even Mormons require that -- in fact, there's usually a legal contract saying that the (presumably) Protestant parent has limited rights over their own kids. Quote: We can have BOTH a Protestant and an Orthodox wedding. As long as the Orthodox is last. Last, so most recent, so predominant ... okay, laying aside the expense of a single wedding (and you people apparently want two of them), this also requires her to admit that your faith is more important than hers. It does not require the same of you. So we've a double-standard here, and she's again getting the short end of the stick. But ... if you two don't do this, and want to get married anyway (let's assume a civil ceremony, visit to the JP) ... you get excommunicated! That's not fair to you, is it? Your own church would forbid you from practicing your faith! But I'll get away from all that for now. Quote: As for her asking if two people can stay together from two different "religions", we both attended a marriage between a Methodist or Baptist man (can't remember anymore) and an Orthodox woman. That was nearly two years ago. They are still together and extremely happy together. So, yes I know it can work out. That's fascinating ... but it's also irrelevant, sorry to say. First, for some people, their faith (and this is depressing for me to type) isn't that important. Many of my own relatives are like this. So if there's somebody who's nominally Baptist/Methodist/whatever who is willing to lay aside their "faith" for their partner ... well, their "faith" wasn't that important to them in the first place. And without meaning to be judgemental ... I seem to recall Jesus saying a few words along the lines of "whoever loves their spouse more than they love Me isn't worthy of Me". Second (and I promise, less judgemental), if one couple can make it work, that doesn't guarantee that all couples can make it work. In this, faith doesn't matter quite so much; it could be any couple (best if they have some sort of difference, like religion or race, but it's not essential for this point). Consider that my parents had four kids ... all the kids have gotten married. Great. I'm the only one who's not also gotten divorced. You could look at Meadow and myself and say "hey, they made it work!" ... but make sure you look at my siblings also, and say "hey, they didn't make it work". And that makes for pretty slim odds. Lastly, you say this couple's been together for two years ... that's still pretty much in the "honeymoon" phase. Generally speaking, when a marriage lasts seven years, that's when you start saying "it worked". (Some people might read all this and assume I have no faith. That's only half true. I have plenty of faith in God; it's humans I don't trust. I know humans will find a way to screw things up.) ========== *Sigh.* I hate this, I really do. It's not only cliche (which I despise), but it's something neither you nor she is likely to listen to. Dude, if you love her ... don't walk away. Run away. And Sig, get away from him. Because you two may love each other, but you're going to cause each other some major pain, and in the long run, it really won't be worth it. Now, the fact that you two have, after "breaking up", come to the point where she's still asking for people's advice (from total strangers, yet!), and you're coming in to defend your view, tells me that (A) you're not entirely broken up; (B) you two will probably keep going until you find someone to tell you "it's okay"; and (C) you're wanting to get married anyway. I'm not going to say "go for it". I'm just saying I know that's what you two are probably going to do, regardless of what might actually be the best thing.
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Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:11 am
kajskorean First of all, hello there. Christ is in our midst! I am the guy sigtar_gimp was talking about. I am posting here so that I can offer my viewpoint on things. I will quote her post in various places and offer my views on it as well to see what you think of the situation. First of all, I do believe some of her post was exaggerative because she seemed desperate for what other people think about the situation. No offense to her, of course. That aside...let me start. Quote: First off let me say that I am a christian, and have been for all my life. I was raised Baptist, and I met this guy that I fell madly in love with. Everything was going well at first. He was Methodist, which didn't bother me any at all. His grandfather was a Methodist Preacher. So my guy had been raised protestant too. But one night, he was doing research on the internet, and found this other religion, called Orthodox. He started getting interested in it, and decided to find a church local to us, because he wanted to check it out. He claimed that God lead him to this religion, and I never understood it. Anywho, he started going to this church more and more. He finally quit his grandparents church It is true that I was raised somewhat Methodist. Somewhat being that my grandpa had a falling out with his church and left it, so my family (I live with my grandparents) didn't go to church for at least 8 years. So, saying I was raised Methodist is a bit of a stretch. My grandparents really didn't try to teach me much; I had to learn everything on my own. So, I came to Orthodoxy completely independent of anyone or anything. For a year before I met her, I was researching Orthodoxy on the internet. I looked up the beliefs, traditions, etc. Before we started going out, we both talked about our religions. I told her I was interested in Orthodoxy, but I had no experience in it yet. I told her the beliefs and such, and she seemed to agree with them as well. We started going out about two weeks before my first visit to an Orthodox Church. I asked her what she thought of the situation. She said go ahead and see what it's like and tell her about it. So by the Grace of God, a Church was near my college and near my home. I went to the one at my college first. I indeed felt like God led me to it after this first visit. So, I talked to her about it, and she wanted to come with me to the Church near home. So she came, and she seemed to take up with it a little bit. Much more slowly than I did because I had over a year's worth of research into the Church than she did. I somewhat knew what to expect. She seemed to be weirded out at first, but that is obvious to expect. I asked her if she wanted to quit coming with me, and she said she still wanted to come with me. And, we started going to catechism classes together. My priest and I found that her beliefs were MUCH closer to Orthodox beliefs than to standard Baptist beliefs. For example, Theosis (url is wikipedia explaining Theosis) is much closer to her beliefs on Salvation than the Baptist beliefs on Salvation. She believed in the Saints to a certain extent. She believed in the ever-virginity of the Theotokos (Mary). She didn't believe in the rapture (VERY prevalent throughout my area). She also believed that Jesus was fully God and fully Man (something that my area isn't very well known for believing in). Her parents don't even believe in the divinity of Christ, and they believe in the rapture. Already, you can see how her religious life seemed to be in strife at that point and how she seemed to be a bit interested in Orthodoxy from the beginning. However, she never wanted to convert because she kept saying that wasn't how she was raised. She didn't want to change from the "religion" she had been raised in her whole life. Quote: and started getting all strict, and dead set in these new beliefs. His parents, grandparents, friends, or me, just didn't understand. He started changing completely Okay, the getting all "strict" was an over-zealous thing on my part...I guess it was the newness of the Church to me that made me like this. I seemed to jump into everything and try everything out at once. However, it is like this with all people. If they find something new that interests them, that is all they talk about for a LONG time. For example, when the Twilight series got big, that is all everybody and their mother could talk about for forever (including sigtar_gimp). About all she bought for a few months after she got interest in it was Twilight paraphernalia. And, all she talked about was Twilight. When I got into the Church, a lot of what I bought were Orthodox books, icons, prayer ropes, etc. And, this is all I could talk about. It is the same exact thing. However as time went by, this lessened obviously, but I still wanted to be a part of the Church just as she still loves Twilight but that isn't all she thinks about anymore. Quote: and everything went down hill from there. I was in love with him, but we just couldn't get along. He tried to force his religion on me and he said that if we married, I'd have to agree to have his kind of wedding, and raise my kids in his beliefs As for ALL OF HER POST ALREADY QUOTED ABOVE INCLUDING THE PART JUST QUOTED, all of what she said only happened within the first THREE OR FOUR months of us being together...this encompasses the busiest time of the Church-year. Great Lent and Pascha (Easter). For those who don't know, during this time there are many more Church services, 7-weeks of fasting with 3 preparatory weeks, and a strict examination of yourself to get yourself ready for the Greatest Day of History. So as you can see, our relationship was very young and in the earliest stages. It was still FAR too early to even be talking about marriage and kids, especially with us still being teenagers. Now to the quote, she said we couldn't get along...it is true there was a long while that we couldn't get along. We spent many days arguing. She didn't want me to have an Orthodox marriage unless it were changed (something that is impossible) to suit her needs. She said this because all of her dreams were to have a "normal" wedding. She refused to have the kids raised Orthodox because she said it seemed that I would always say that she was wrong, bad, dumb, etc. This right here should be a very big RED flag for the two of you. This seems to tell me that she ALREADY is feeling belittled by you. For those who don't know, for me to remain Orthodox and for us to be married, I have to have an Orthodox wedding or be excommunicated. She has to have been baptized in the name of the Trinity (which she has). And, we have to agree to raise the kids Orthodox (so the kids can be raised in the Truth). Personally I take offense at this statement (as I'm sure your Grandparents do). It is a VERY self-righteous statement, and perhaps that is the attitude your girlfriend is sensing in you. You, nor anyone else holds or knows all the truth, and such a statement comes only out of arrogance and pride. That said, I will cover these and how they were resolved. Our Priest YOUR PRIEST helped us in these moments. We can have BOTH a Protestant and an Orthodox wedding. As long as the Orthodox is last. She agreed on this. He also said that we can raise the kids in BOTH my Church and hers. However, they have to be raised predominately Orthodox so we can fulfill our "oaths?" and "conditions" for us to be married. For instance, they can go to her church say every Wed. and every few Sundays. They are obviously not allowed to take Holy Communion at her church though. The rest of the times (Sat. and the other Sundays) they come to my Church. And sometimes, we would ALL go together. Sometimes to hers and sometimes to mine. This she agreed to. Obviously, all of these plans about how to raise the kids were tentative because marriage was still A LONG way off. The main point of this is that compromises were indeed made on both sides. I see no compromise here...I see your way or the highway...You have done nothing other than thrown her cracker crumbs to pacify her. Your still insisting that YOUR religion is the right one and must remain predominate in ALL things.Quote: After two years, we broke up. It hurt us both badly. And we still love each other, but nor my family, his family, or me can see how it'll work out in the future. Do you really thing that two people that different can stay together, get married, and have a successful marriage? Yes, we did break up after two years and three months...but that is nearly two years after we worked many of our problems out. For that time, nothing was mentioned much at all about religion and the future. When one of us did mention something, we would talk about it (with no arguments this time) and agree. HOWEVER, my grandparents ALWAYS told her that it wasn't going to work out in the future...break up with me. Everytime she talked to them it was like this. There was never a moment of peace from their attacks for her. I truly believe that they influenced her on into her present situation. I believe my grandparents are still bitter toward me at leaving their church and becoming Orthodox. They still fight and attack me at every chance they can get <_>. As for me and her, we still NEVER argue about the Church or beliefs or anything. When either of us has a question about religion, we just ask, and the other replies. There is never any arguing anymore. Obviously, there are things she still can't agree with full-heartedly in the Orthodox Church. However, in the Baptist faith, there are things that she doesn't agree with either. As for her asking if two people can stay together from two different "religions", we both attended a marriage between a Methodist or Baptist man (can't remember anymore) and an Orthodox woman. That was nearly two years ago. They are still together and extremely happy together. So, yes I know it can work out. Is it just coincidence that a Baptist or Methodist man and an Orthodox woman get married just as we were in the worst time of our relationship? I believe that in matters of faith there are no such things as coincidences. Of course such "coincidental" things happen, but they were led by the Holy Spirit and are declared as miracles. Now that my side is presented, I believe that more balanced posts can be made. Sorry for the wall of text as well. Thank you, and God bless!
First off I would like to say that there is "your Truth", "her Truth", and The Truth", concerning this situation. Though you say you have discussed everything with her and have not argued about religion.....there is obviously some kind of unresolved conflict concerning it, or else she would not have brought it up on this forum.
I'm not sure how you came about knowing that she had posted here. Did she tell you so as to make you aware of her feelings....or did you check up on her posts? In either case, I will tell you that if I was in her shoes, I would feel somewhat humiliated that you chose to bring your defense of this debate to the forum. It comes across to me (and I could be wrong) that you are more concerned with being right, than you are in recognizing her feelings and honoring her. She had a need to ask impartial people questions concerning your relationship and the blending of the differing beliefs, because there was some kind of concern there on her part. That was her motive for posting. I have to ask you.....what was your motive for posting your answer to her here?
As far as Grandparents involvement.......when two people get married, they are not marrying just each other. They are marrying each others friends and family...warts, pimples and all. The Bible clearly tells us that we are to respect and honor our elders. There is a reason to listen to their advise in that they have years of wisdom and life experience that those of the following generations do not. Does that make them right 100% of the time-No it doesn't. But your girlfriend is correct in at least hearing them out. If she is persuaded by what they say, then your relationship surely is not as strong as thought. In addition I would go so far as betting the farm that if those "outside" relationships can already cause this type of division between the two of you....you will not make it.
You use the arguement that you know of one couple of "mixed religions" that has succeeded in making it work because their marriage has lasted "2 years." TO ME That is almost laughable and evidences to me that you are nowhere mature enough to even be thinking of marriage. 2 years is a drop in the bucket when it comes to a life time vow. It's like anyone could make their bed in a pile of manure for two years, but can they face that same pile day after day for the next 30-40 maybe even 50 years without wanting to get out to get a shower? A 2 year marriage in most cases has not even been tested. It is still largely in the honeymoon stage. In the best of situations, statistically over 50% of all marriages FAIL. What makes you think that your relationship is stong enough to weather the additional storms of family and religion that will be brought in to it, especially when you have already broken up once?
I'm sorry, but because of these reasons I still hold the opinon that at this point, your relationship will not stand the test of eternity, and this is coming from someone with 34 years of marriage under her belt, and the experience and wisdom of counseling dozens of couples in the middle of marriage crisis.
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Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:03 pm
Yeah, I agree with both of them. You two... not gonna work. That's just my mortal opinion, but it's my opinion nonetheless. Both of you should most likely scratch marriage off of the list of 'things to do together'. Even though the religious friction happened at the beginning of the relationship, there is obviously something else in the relationship that is driving you two apart.
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