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 Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:30 am
I'm pretty sure most of us have by now heard of the regrettable incident at Seaworld, involving the orca Tilikum and the death of the 40 year old trainer Dawn Brancheau. As with any shocking incident the details are quite unclear. Some papers state that Tilikum bit the trainer and dragged her underwater, while other sources state that she slipped. Some say the orca seemed to be playing with her while others maintain that it was an obvious attack. Tilikum already had a history of 'incidents' resulting in deaths and was send to therapy for it. He had apparently finished it successfully and put back on show, though trainers were forbidden to be alone in the water with him.  Personally I am amazed that they took these risks after Tilikum had already acted out. Setting him free into the wild would have been the best option, but him being so used to humans and needing to find a pod that would accept him would pose a problem. I think the biggest problem here is that we tend to treat these animals as cuddly pets, while their natural prey is roughly as large as we are. No one in their right mind would get this friendly with sharks, big cats, wolves and bears, so why do we pretend that orca's and dolphins are any different. Even elephants, the gentle giants, are more and more often being kept at a greater distance from people now a days. This also facilitates their release back into the wild. Should these animals be trained to preform circus acts or not? Should these animals even be kept and bred in basins? And what will happen to Tilikum? Slightly related to this is a mall in Dubai that was closed because their shark-tank had started cracking. The damage was repaired pretty quickly though. source
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Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:06 pm
im disgusted that they let him preform after already killing humans, are they so desperate for entertainment?
these animals live shorter lives in captivity than they do in the wild. that right there should be proof enough that we are doing somehting wrong.
i love going to shows and seeing happy whales and dolphins do tricks and work with their trainers, but its sad that an animal as clever as a human gets stuck in a box its entire life
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Ammonia Spike Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:01 pm
Although I am fine with keeping most animals in captivity, I really think that cetaceans should be left in the wild where they belong. They are too intelligent to be kept confined, and I think it is exploitative to use them for entertainment. If they want to keep a cetacean for research, fine, but it is cruel and insulting to these magnificent animals that they are cooped up and taught to perform stupid tricks.
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:23 pm
Shanna66 im disgusted that they let him preform after already killing humans, are they so desperate for entertainment? these animals live shorter lives in captivity than they do in the wild. that right there should be proof enough that we are doing somehting wrong. i love going to shows and seeing happy whales and dolphins do tricks and work with their trainers, but its sad that an animal as clever as a human gets stuck in a box its entire life fist statement, yes!!! second statement, yes, but it is usually the same for all animals!!!!!!
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Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:38 pm
zainith666 Shanna66 im disgusted that they let him preform after already killing humans, are they so desperate for entertainment? these animals live shorter lives in captivity than they do in the wild. that right there should be proof enough that we are doing somehting wrong. i love going to shows and seeing happy whales and dolphins do tricks and work with their trainers, but its sad that an animal as clever as a human gets stuck in a box its entire life fist statement, yes!!! second statement, yes, but it is usually the same for all animals!!!!!! what do you mean? most of the animals that are kept in captivity lead much longer lives than they do in the wild
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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:52 pm
Shanna66 zainith666 Shanna66 im disgusted that they let him preform after already killing humans, are they so desperate for entertainment? these animals live shorter lives in captivity than they do in the wild. that right there should be proof enough that we are doing somehting wrong. i love going to shows and seeing happy whales and dolphins do tricks and work with their trainers, but its sad that an animal as clever as a human gets stuck in a box its entire life fist statement, yes!!! second statement, yes, but it is usually the same for all animals!!!!!! what do you mean? most of the animals that are kept in captivity lead much longer lives than they do in the wild Leopard geckos and bettas, for example. biggrin
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Ammonia Spike Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:28 pm
Ammonia Spike Shanna66 zainith666 Shanna66 im disgusted that they let him preform after already killing humans, are they so desperate for entertainment? these animals live shorter lives in captivity than they do in the wild. that right there should be proof enough that we are doing somehting wrong. i love going to shows and seeing happy whales and dolphins do tricks and work with their trainers, but its sad that an animal as clever as a human gets stuck in a box its entire life fist statement, yes!!! second statement, yes, but it is usually the same for all animals!!!!!! what do you mean? most of the animals that are kept in captivity lead much longer lives than they do in the wild Leopard geckos and bettas, for example. biggrin explaine the leos part. bettas are obvious because not many people take proper care of them even with all the good information out there. i always heard that leos dont get much older than 5 or 10 in the wild
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Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:14 am
Ammonia Spike Shanna66 zainith666 Shanna66 im disgusted that they let him preform after already killing humans, are they so desperate for entertainment? these animals live shorter lives in captivity than they do in the wild. that right there should be proof enough that we are doing somehting wrong. i love going to shows and seeing happy whales and dolphins do tricks and work with their trainers, but its sad that an animal as clever as a human gets stuck in a box its entire life fist statement, yes!!! second statement, yes, but it is usually the same for all animals!!!!!! what do you mean? most of the animals that are kept in captivity lead much longer lives than they do in the wild Leopard geckos and bettas, for example. biggrin I think this may depend on who's keeping it. A profesional and experienced institution should be able to keep these animals far beyond their natural lifespan. I think the diffence in the priorities you set; eighter you want to optimalize the living conditions of the animal, or you want to optimalize the entertainment level. I suspect that if you create an orka lagoon, that's very extensive and deep, and just leave the animals be (appart from the feeding) that you'd be able to keep them quite well. But keeping them for entertainment is just cruel and stupid. There are far less circusses then there used to be for those reasons, so why do we keep on insisting on keeping animals in the wrong ways and making them do silly tricks.
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Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:28 pm
Irrlich Ammonia Spike Shanna66 zainith666 Shanna66 im disgusted that they let him preform after already killing humans, are they so desperate for entertainment? these animals live shorter lives in captivity than they do in the wild. that right there should be proof enough that we are doing somehting wrong. i love going to shows and seeing happy whales and dolphins do tricks and work with their trainers, but its sad that an animal as clever as a human gets stuck in a box its entire life fist statement, yes!!! second statement, yes, but it is usually the same for all animals!!!!!! what do you mean? most of the animals that are kept in captivity lead much longer lives than they do in the wild Leopard geckos and bettas, for example. biggrin I think this may depend on who's keeping it. A profesional and experienced institution should be able to keep these animals far beyond their natural lifespan. I think the diffence in the priorities you set; eighter you want to optimalize the living conditions of the animal, or you want to optimalize the entertainment level. I suspect that if you create an orka lagoon, that's very extensive and deep, and just leave the animals be (appart from the feeding) that you'd be able to keep them quite well. But keeping them for entertainment is just cruel and stupid. There are far less circusses then there used to be for those reasons, so why do we keep on insisting on keeping animals in the wrong ways and making them do silly tricks. i dont think an orca would survive too well without some good mental stimulation aswell as a proper habitat since they are so smart. im not saying that making them preform is a good thing but it gives them something to do and challenges them. i give even my leopard geckos toys and though rare they do sometimes mess with them
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Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:14 am
Every animal needs stimulation, but not at the expensie of the animal as often seems to happen.
A bare tank is just cruel to fish, and octopusses in laboratoria have been known to commit suicide out of 'boredom'.
What I meat with an orca lagoon is a large network of deep lakes and rivers, that not only houses orcas but also other seacreatures. A simulation of their habitat. I think that that should suffice; a water version of a safari park.
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Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:02 pm
Irrlich Every animal needs stimulation, but not at the expensie of the animal as often seems to happen. A bare tank is just cruel to fish, and octopusses in laboratoria have been known to commit suicide out of 'boredom'. What I meat with an orca lagoon is a large network of deep lakes and rivers, that not only houses orcas but also other seacreatures. A simulation of their habitat. I think that that should suffice; a water version of a safari park. ok, i had thought you meant just a deep pool with plants.
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Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:49 pm
Shanna66 ok, i had thought you meant just a deep pool with plants. Ce n'est pas du problème ^^ I wasn't very clear about it anyway. But I doubt people would ever create a park where the orca's can hunt. Humans seem to hate any animal that shows it's natural drive to kill. Such hypocrisy.
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Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:26 am
Irrlich Shanna66 ok, i had thought you meant just a deep pool with plants. Ce n'est pas du problème ^^ I wasn't very clear about it anyway. But I doubt people would ever create a park where the orca's can hunt. Humans seem to hate any animal that shows it's natural drive to kill. Such hypocrisy. with some animals i can understand not wanting them to hunt, like if the prey can fight back or something and injure the animal, but if you just toss some yummy fish in with an orca then thats pretty safe. and people only enjoy watching some animals hunt. people dont like seeing the cute and cuddly ones kill anything xp
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Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:54 pm
Shanna66 Ammonia Spike Shanna66 zainith666 Shanna66 im disgusted that they let him preform after already killing humans, are they so desperate for entertainment? these animals live shorter lives in captivity than they do in the wild. that right there should be proof enough that we are doing somehting wrong. i love going to shows and seeing happy whales and dolphins do tricks and work with their trainers, but its sad that an animal as clever as a human gets stuck in a box its entire life fist statement, yes!!! second statement, yes, but it is usually the same for all animals!!!!!! what do you mean? most of the animals that are kept in captivity lead much longer lives than they do in the wild Leopard geckos and bettas, for example. biggrin explaine the leos part. bettas are obvious because not many people take proper care of them even with all the good information out there. i always heard that leos dont get much older than 5 or 10 in the wild I've heard of them living up to 15 in captivity. I've also heard that breeding geckos tend to not live as long. Who knows, I could probably be wrong. I usually am. XD
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Ammonia Spike Vice Captain
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Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:00 pm
Ammonia Spike Shanna66 Ammonia Spike Shanna66 zainith666 Shanna66 im disgusted that they let him preform after already killing humans, are they so desperate for entertainment? these animals live shorter lives in captivity than they do in the wild. that right there should be proof enough that we are doing somehting wrong. i love going to shows and seeing happy whales and dolphins do tricks and work with their trainers, but its sad that an animal as clever as a human gets stuck in a box its entire life fist statement, yes!!! second statement, yes, but it is usually the same for all animals!!!!!! what do you mean? most of the animals that are kept in captivity lead much longer lives than they do in the wild Leopard geckos and bettas, for example. biggrin explaine the leos part. bettas are obvious because not many people take proper care of them even with all the good information out there. i always heard that leos dont get much older than 5 or 10 in the wild I've heard of them living up to 15 in captivity. I've also heard that breeding geckos tend to not live as long. Who knows, I could probably be wrong. I usually am. XD well quite a few people overbreed their females and dont give them time to rest and some people even house them with males all year round. if you give females plenty of time to rest and house them alone so they dont get stressed out then they are fine. if it shortened their lives even with proper care then i would not be planning on breeding 2 of my girls, they are far too spoiled to have shortened lives lol XD and a captive bred leo who is healthy should make it to 20 years. a few years ago 15 was normal but as we learn more about proper care they live longer. i think we are still in the transitioning phases of that though because i still see alot of big time breeders stuffing their females with pinkies
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