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 Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 10:35 am
Okay I know its a lot more fun bashing the stupid arguments of the pro-choice side, but I saw this as a good opportunity to check our own arguments and help build up our debate. This is a good opportunity for the pro-choicers in our guild to help us out, since its harder to see the flaws in your own argument than to see them in others. One of the biggest problems I see with the choice side is they are generally unwilling to keep eachother in check and stop some of the most idiotic arguments which in turn weakens their debate. So some obvious ones I've seen have been: 1."Its wrong in God's eyes" Okay what's wrong with this argument is that the vast majority of the population has not spoken to God, and don't know his opinion. Unless you have don't make this claim. Some here may think that because of the Bible they know God's will and while there may be some evidence that events in the bible did happen, there is no evidence proving that the interpretations of these events was 100 percent accurate. 2."Abortion is murder" No its not, no matter how much you want it to be its not. It would have to be illegal to be murder. 3."Abortion is dangerous" The fact is yes it is dangerous all medical procedures are, but illegal abortions are more dangerous. It only improves the arguments of those who say it should be legal for safety reasons. It is much better to go with the argument that it harms a womans mental health for example a study done shows that women who've had abortions are far more likely to commit suicide. http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47705
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:24 am
Karl, I'll ask that you please put number one in a way that places it as your own opinoin. Not every one agrees with you, you know.
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:38 am
okay number reworded-
don't use the argument because not everyone has the same religious beliefs and there is no way to prove any one persons religious beliefs over another. better?
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:38 am
Actually....I think the reason why "God says so" is so off is because not everyone agrees on what God actually IS, the nature of God...or if God even exists. If we were all of the same faith "because God said so" would be a perfectly good statement to make because we would all be basing it off of the same standard.
But since the claim is based on a standard that varies from person to person, it is not a strong foundation to base a persuasive arguement.
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:42 am
Much better, Because Carl, God may have not said anythign abotu abortion, but he has said somthign about the unjustified killign of human life. And there are plenty of verses in scripture that refer to the unborn as human.
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:48 am
Yes, I realize that and abortion is unjust killing. I was just drawing notice to the fact that religions are beliefs, not hard evidence.You can't base an argument solely on belief, it has to have actual evidence to back it up. One person can believe the bible is perfect, but unless there is evidence to back that up you can't use it in a debate.
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:54 am
The only evidence against the bible is that most peopel don't believe in God or beilive in a diffrent God. Have you been lookign at that site I gave oyu Karl. Its quite a mind ******** really.
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:57 am
Pyrotechnic Oracle Much better, Because Carl, God may have not said anythign abotu abortion, but he has said somthign about the unjustified killign of human life. And there are plenty of verses in scripture that refer to the unborn as human. Actually, I thought we went over a verse before that could be used to say that God -condones- abortion. The whole wormwood potion thing.
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:06 pm
I'm still not convinced with that. I've been tryign to get ahold of these guys who run an anti-apologetics site. Tektonics.org
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:23 pm
Pyrotechnic Oracle I'm still not convinced with that. I've been tryign to get ahold of these guys who run an anti-apologetics site. Tektonics.org Well, my argument would be that it is Old Testament, and so does not necessarily apply anymore. After all, there was also human sacrifice way back when. All I'm trying to say is that I think his original statement is good. It depends on who is reading the Bible as to what it says. Both sides can translate it to fit them. So we shouldn't speak for God.
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:31 pm
No, I don't. Becuas what he said was that we don't know that the bible is not erred. Not every one agrees with that. SOme feel it isn't.
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 1:24 pm
What I said is there is no hard evidence that there is no error in the bible. There is evidence that these events did happen, such as they found the cities of sodom and gamorah, possibly noah's ark, the grave of jesus' brother. There is not however evidence that the interpretation of these events by the authors of the bible is completely accurate, although they may very well be. By hard evidence I mean artifacts and ruins.
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 1:46 pm
"My word is sufficient for you." Thats good enough for me. I've seen an experienced enough in my life to convince me the bible is true and unerring.
I understand, however, that that dosn't work for "them"
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:59 pm
Pyrotechnic Oracle "My word is sufficient for you." Thats good enough for me. I've seen an experienced enough in my life to convince me the bible is true and unerring. I understand, however, that that dosn't work for "them"
I've never EVER mentioned God in any of my debates because, well, I don't believe in God. Anymore.
And even when I did, I was really too young to care about abortion.
Frankly, the Old Testament is harder to get people to swallow.
For me, the real... stuff that I hate is in Leviticus.
That chapter spits all over 'my people'. Tsk, tsk.
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Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:11 pm
Mcphee Pyrotechnic Oracle "My word is sufficient for you." Thats good enough for me. I've seen an experienced enough in my life to convince me the bible is true and unerring. I understand, however, that that dosn't work for "them"
I've never EVER mentioned God in any of my debates because, well, I don't believe in God. Anymore.
And even when I did, I was really too young to care about abortion.
Frankly, the Old Testament is harder to get people to swallow.
For me, the real... stuff that I hate is in Leviticus.
That chapter spits all over 'my people'. Tsk, tsk. Okay? SO what? Sorry, but I can see the relevence of what you say in the first half, but not the second. WHat does the Bible denouncing homosexuality is an "abomination of the flesh" (the language most christians use) have to do with the argument?
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