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Disruptive

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:40 pm


-Sigh!-
Today, I was so heated... I have too many stories... but this one... must be heard. Ha.

I came into my physics class and noticed that everyone was having a conversation, and it was slightly intense. I stood inbetween the rows and listened... this is what I picked up.

"They are taking my spot! Why should I have to work my butt off, only to lose my place to them."

So some other girl was sitting there agreeing and saying "That's what I said! It's not fair. It's stupid..." Blah blah blah.

So I asked if they were talking about affirmative action and they said yes. And then he launched into how unfair it was again.

The fool said something like, "They get in just because they are minorities, and then don't even do well in school."
Then a girl said, "No, if you are happy to be accepted into a school, that would motivate you to do well to stay in school."
He said, "That's not what's happening, they go up there and drink and smoke weed all day and don't even go to class."

... I had to say something.

I said something along the lines of, "Minorities aren't accepted into school's just based on that."
He said, "Yes they are, they get picked over me cause they get points for that!"
Me..., "... Colleges don't just accept anyone because their race. They accept based on grades. If you don't have the grades to get into the school, they won't even look twice at you. Blacks have to have good grades to get in. Mexicans have to have good grades to get in. No one goes on a free ride because their background."
He decided to argue with someone else... so I went to the "bathroom" so I could go vent to the only black teacher we have in our school.

Eh... Is it possible to qualify for affirmative action when you leave the optional race selection box free... Don't think so? I love how people assume they didn't get into a college of their choice because of affirmative action. rolleyes

So why not rid of it? They tried that in California. At one University, the number of minority applications accepted decreased from 25% to 12%.

On the other side... if I ever end up in a hospital, I want the best doctor availiable. He can be purple for all I care, as long as I get the best care... so!

Discuss:
- Where you stand on affirmative action.
- Is it necessary to still have?
- Why is it a generalization that minorites go "smoke weed" and drink?
- How parental influence might factor into their beliefs on it.
- Why is this post so long? razz
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:46 pm


[I'm not too clear on where affirmative action stands right now. I know that that kid you speak of was a narrow-minded, self-centered egotistical a*****e, though. 3nodding rolleyes Who is he to say that "they" are going to take "his" place at college? Wonder if he gets homicidal when someone cuts him in the lunch line...? stare


Anyway, I never really kept up on affirmative action. After a while of hearing about the pros and cons from both people who oppose it and people who support it, I finally said "******** it," and decided to let the government (and others who care) deal with it.

In the case of your situation, it sounds like a loosing battle. You can argue the good and the bad for days and probably never reach an understanding when you're talking to people like that. All they want is to walk away and know that they are "just" in continuing to think that they are right. rolleyes I talk to people like that all day long--adults who love to think that they are completely right and I am completely wrong.

If anyone knows and wants to share (in a nutshell, please) what affirmative action is, whether it's statewide or nationwide, etc., please feel free. 3nodding ]




[EDIT: Now that my rant is over...I guess the reason I never cared much for the affirmative action debate is because I always hoped that I wouldn't be accepted into anything if that decision was JUST based soley upon my race. I don't want you to hire/fire/accept/decline me based upon my race. I deserve better than that.

Additonally, I think affirmative action goes back to the whole "reparations" thing, doesn't it?? "Oh, minorities were so affected by poverty (trickling down from slavery) that their neighborhoods weren't safe and their schools sucked, so they didn't have an equal opportunity at quality education, so we should take it upon ourselves to make it so that they get a little extra 'push' enabling them to get into colleges that normally wouldn't accept them; it's the least we can do considering their races' age-old handicap." evil ]

Passion_Dragon
Crew


Soothsayer Jeckal

PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 5:33 pm


Get rid of A.A Its un needed and all around hypocriticle.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 12:21 pm


2


based on the current perception of Affirmative Action, one would assume that it means pick the qualified minority over the qualified non-minority. believe it or not, that's not what's up.

peep this:

"The contractor will not discriminate against any employee or applicant for employment because of race, creed, color, or national origin," declared Executive Order 11246 of September 24, 1965. "The contractor will take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin. [A few years later a fifth category was added: sex.] Such action shall include, but not be limited to the following: employment, upgrading, demotion, or transfer; recruitment or recruitment advertising; layoff or termination; rates of pay or other forms of compensation; and selection for training, including apprenticeship. The contractor agrees to post in conspicuous places, available to employees and applicants for employment, notices to be provided by the contracting officer setting forth the provisions of this nondiscrimination clause."

where does it say that Black employees get picked first? this is a common misperception that has been not only spread through propaganda, but perpetuated by many who just don't read or know the law. racial quotas didn't even exist until the early to mid 70's, and that was the basis for EEO (Equal Employment Opportunity). it's called, in some circles, 'preferential access', but who among us would prefer to be chosen (or left out) just because we have breasts, or kinky hair? the Supreme Court has already laid the groundwork for the continuation of AA, by stating that as long as the decisions aren't formulaic, it's a valid and constitutional policy. for example, a business can't just say, "We need more Latino employees, so let's hire Tania instead of Jim."

but again, based on the misconception, here's where I stand:
it's still a problem. people have found ways around it, and it's harder to prove now than it was before (like when certain things were all white or whatever), but that type of discrimination still exists, only now, it's not based on past wrongs, but present opinions and ideas.

i don't have a problem with affirmative action, as long as the decision making process is effective, and used properly (for example, within certain parameters, people of all races and types should have equal representation within an organization, but more often than not, that isn't the case). people shouldn't just say "I have to fill a quota, so Hakim gets the job instead of Bill," but by the same token, it's not fair at all to say that Bill would look better on the cover of the corporate portfolio, and believe me, sometimes it comes down to that, or to whether or not Nancy or Cherelle had a shorter skirt on during the interview, or whether Tanaysha or Melissa had braids or an updo at the last meeting. it really can be that serious and petty at the same time. affirmative action can sometimes mean the difference between Becky getting a job because her cousin works there, or Chantal getting a job because she's a damn good employee, and has had 8 years experience doing the same job. it matters, and it's that important.

as for colleges, any admissions officer would be remiss to admit a Black person on the merits of skin color alone. a lot of factors go into whether or not a person is even considered for admission, grades, extracurricular activities, overall academic improvement from one year to the next, etc. i'm relatively certain that a non-qualified person wouldn't make it just because s/he was Black. in this situation, affirmative action only applies in cases where it's down to the wire, so to speak. if anyone tells you different, it's probably because s/he wasn't the one admitted or 'chosen'. rolleyes

have i ever been selected for something because of my race? i don't believe so. i bust my a** to get what i need, and the things i have still don't add up to any external action at all, be it affirmative or otherwise. would i like to be selected on those grounds? i don't know. i have to believe that before a person looks at that, they're going to look at my qualifications first, and decide whether i'm an appropriate candidate. if i can't do my job, their company is going to fall, because i can't be the only person they've ever hired that sucks. why would i even want to work for a company like that? i'd prefer to work for the company that has 98% white employees and hires one Black candidate who is qualified based on merit first, then (maybe) the AA policy if there is more than one qualified applicant, than work for a company that's only crunching numbers, and has 40% Black employees, and hires me because they need one more, knowing that there were 5 White applicants who could do twice the work i could.

i guess that means that, affirmative action, when abused, is a foolish mistake, but when used to properly select candidates, can be a good and helpful thing.

and since it was asked, Affirmative Action is a federal mandate at this time, and enforced on the local, then state, then federal level.


wtf its kae


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TrueFunkSoldier

PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 4:22 pm


That was a very informative post,Kaenai. A.A was created to level the playing field, not give minorities a 'free ride' through life. I'm currently in my freshman year of college. I have to work twice as hard as those whites because no matter how much they goof off, they will not be scrutenized like a non-white. sweatdrop
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:45 am


Soothsayer Jeckal
Get rid of A.A Its un needed and all around hypocriticle.
3nodding

Soothsayer Jeckal


Passion_Dragon
Crew

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:06 pm


Soothsayer Jeckal
Soothsayer Jeckal
Get rid of A.A Its un needed and all around hypocriticle.
3nodding
[After that long post full of info, you just "repeat" yourself?? After all that, I would think for you to keep up a valid argument, you would need to say why it is you believe what you do. If you're not willing to take the time and trouble to back yourself up, then it's futile to say anything at all...especially when you're just quoting the same thing you typed before. confused ]
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