Now to post my saved PM conversation in order from oldest to youngest. I'm copying and pasting directly from my inbox.
This response was recieved: OCT 30, 2005(though my initial PM was a week, or so before this date)
Mantid
Bruce-Ganked-Lee
I've a couple questions regarding your guild...as well as couple of corrections.
You seem to take a stance against combat sports, so why do you have Tae Kwon Do listed as a "real" style even though its been molded and morphed into an ineffective sport style?
Also, you've listed Jeet Kune Do as a "real" style...yet did you know that Dan Inosanto(Bruce Lee's top student and good friend...and the most certified to teach JKD concepts) offers both Muay Thai(a combat sport) and Brazilian Jujitsu(of which I'm sure you're against...as it is the base style for many UFC fighters)?
Now to the corrections.
Krav Maga is far from a sport. At the very most, its basic level military hand to hand combat. All their moves are meant for RBSD(reality based self-defense). As far as I can tell, there are no sport Krav Maga competitions...anywhere.
Russian Sambo...I'm not sure if you could label that as a sport either. I believe it borrows from both Judo and Western wrestling and is also meant as a military hand to hand method. There is such thing as sport Sambo....just like sport Judo...or sport Karate(like that slap and tap s**t the traditionalists swear by....or the more harder contact karate style of kyokushinkai).
Now on a final note, you seem to be biased towards East Asian(specifically Chinese and Japanese) styles. Is there a reason for this?
If you've any questions on JKD, a couple of members from my guild might be able to help you further....as one of them trains JKD concepts and another trains under Dan Inosanto.
You seem to take a stance against combat sports, so why do you have Tae Kwon Do listed as a "real" style even though its been molded and morphed into an ineffective sport style?
Also, you've listed Jeet Kune Do as a "real" style...yet did you know that Dan Inosanto(Bruce Lee's top student and good friend...and the most certified to teach JKD concepts) offers both Muay Thai(a combat sport) and Brazilian Jujitsu(of which I'm sure you're against...as it is the base style for many UFC fighters)?
Now to the corrections.
Krav Maga is far from a sport. At the very most, its basic level military hand to hand combat. All their moves are meant for RBSD(reality based self-defense). As far as I can tell, there are no sport Krav Maga competitions...anywhere.
Russian Sambo...I'm not sure if you could label that as a sport either. I believe it borrows from both Judo and Western wrestling and is also meant as a military hand to hand method. There is such thing as sport Sambo....just like sport Judo...or sport Karate(like that slap and tap s**t the traditionalists swear by....or the more harder contact karate style of kyokushinkai).
Now on a final note, you seem to be biased towards East Asian(specifically Chinese and Japanese) styles. Is there a reason for this?
If you've any questions on JKD, a couple of members from my guild might be able to help you further....as one of them trains JKD concepts and another trains under Dan Inosanto.
I've been wondering when a pm like this would show up...
To answer your questions,
1.) Not all Tae Kwon Do has been mutilated. Traditional Tae Kwon Do still exists, such as the kind taught by Grandmaster Byong Yu.
2.) Jeet Kune Do is a real style. Just because a highly qualified instructor of Jeet Kune Do practices other things, it cant change Jeet Kune Do as a whole.
As for your corrections...
1.)I am aware that Krav Maga is not a sport. I wil change the guild introduction so it does not seem like we are calling it a sport. (I didn't write the intro.)
However, we are against Krav Maga because it is to "young" to be considered a genuine martial art.
2.)Again, I'm aware Sambo is not a sport, but as with Krav Maga it is far too young to be considered a martial art.
Biased? Not at all. We support martial arts from all over the world, and many of these happen to come from East Asia. As for those that don't, I havent found time to make topics for them... sweatdrop
Recieved on OCT 31, 2004 7:09 pm PST
Mantid
Bruce-Ganked-Lee
Jeet Kune Do as a style....is pretty young and contains western combat sport styles(wrestling, boxing, fencing footwork) as well as Chinese MA(as one was his base style).
Krav Maga actually predates JKD by around 20-30 years as it was developed during the 40's. Sambo predates Krav Maga by around 2 years. So both styles were developed well before Bruce Lee even took up Wing Chun...and Sambo was around 2 years before Lee was born(Lee's birth- 1940, Sambo's birth- 193 cool .
There are many young arts out there(of course with their own base system that they sprung off of...like Kyokushinkai Karate, which is derived from Shotokan)...yet how are they more valid then Krav Maga and Sambo? Hell, TKD isn't all that old either(unless you follow W.T.F's "TKD is 2000 yrs old" myth).
Now, the funny thing about JKD is...depending on who you're talking about, people will tell you the meaning of it differently. Some will say its a style others will say its a philosophy....the debate is endless on that topic.
What are you opinions of the arts that most train in for vale tudo/NHB/MMA bouts? The arts I speak of are: Muay Thai, Boxing, Greco-Roman wrestling(upper body only), Folk Wrestling(H.S. wrestling), Brazilian Jujitsu(probably the grappling art that the majority train in as their base art).
Many of those arts are combat sports in themselves, Muay Thai, Boxing, and Greco-Roman being the oldest of them. Muay Thai is Thailands national sport...yet you cannot deny the effectiveness of it as a self-defense method....or do you?
Muay Thai can be used as both a sport and a method of self defense with little difference. Years ago, Muay Thai bouts had next to NO rules, thereby warranting it a position as an effective martial art. You've seen some of the really good Muay Thai practicioners kick, right? Yeah...xD
Much of what we are against is basically anything with alot of rules and not much actual defense. Combat sports are excluded, because they're just that, sports. Sports have rules for winning and losing. In a real life situation, there are no rules, but there is always a winner and a loser. If you're used to fighting under a strict set of rules, then more than likely, you'll be quite conditioned by that time to, say, not kick "below the belt," and you'd be missing out on some valuable opportunities to stop an attacker. In most martial arts, there's a few rules in regards to sparring for practice, but there are ways to practice the more deadly techniques even then. Say, for example...if you're sparring someone and are swept onto the ground into some weird kinda hold thing...and the person that swept you starts sort of rubbing/pulling your eye...in real life, your eye would be gone. xD
If any more clarifiactaion is needed, send another PM. I'm tired and full of candy. >>;
Recieved 5 minutes after above.
Mantid
Bruce-Ganked-Lee
Oh and if you ever have the chance, do visit my guild(of which I am the captain of). The link is in my sig and its called The Anti-Bullshido Guild.
No, we are not against the samurai code of bushido. Our goal is to sniff out bullshit claims of martial prowess from other Gaians(which happens more often then not, if you visit the sports forum), inform Gaians of suspect associations/schools/methods, and over-all try to inform everyone of the different arts out there that might be right for them(of course the majority of us encourage schools/methods which contain live training and hard contact sparring). There is no censorship and guests are welcome to state opinions(just so long as they do so in a civil manner).
No, we are not against the samurai code of bushido. Our goal is to sniff out bullshit claims of martial prowess from other Gaians(which happens more often then not, if you visit the sports forum), inform Gaians of suspect associations/schools/methods, and over-all try to inform everyone of the different arts out there that might be right for them(of course the majority of us encourage schools/methods which contain live training and hard contact sparring). There is no censorship and guests are welcome to state opinions(just so long as they do so in a civil manner).
Sounds like fun. I'll drop by sometime.
And he did.....
Recieved NOV 3, 2005
Mantid
You wanted me to give a response to your other points, but i'm to tired right now, sorry.
I just wanted to say one thing.
I checked out your guild, which, for the most part seems alright. However there are several topics that I believe violate your code of "No s**t."
The first one is the "European Martial Arts" topic. European martials arts never existed. The whole idea was swing around randomly until the other guy is dead. Oh- and maybe throw some simple blocks in there for good measure...
"European Martial Arts are a recent invention, and were invented to cash in on the Martial Arts craze by being different.
Also, The topic about the Katana "Making n00bs since the Meiji era" is a complete falcity. No one weapon is better than another, it's the wielder that makes the difference. I do, however, agree that all of the myths he dispelled are fake. Katana, do actually have a sharper blade than most swords, though. Tell Mr. Darkholme that.
I just noticed something...
Both topics were started by the same person....
This person seems to bear some sort of hatred towards Asia in general....
I just wanted to say one thing.
I checked out your guild, which, for the most part seems alright. However there are several topics that I believe violate your code of "No s**t."
The first one is the "European Martial Arts" topic. European martials arts never existed. The whole idea was swing around randomly until the other guy is dead. Oh- and maybe throw some simple blocks in there for good measure...
"European Martial Arts are a recent invention, and were invented to cash in on the Martial Arts craze by being different.
Also, The topic about the Katana "Making n00bs since the Meiji era" is a complete falcity. No one weapon is better than another, it's the wielder that makes the difference. I do, however, agree that all of the myths he dispelled are fake. Katana, do actually have a sharper blade than most swords, though. Tell Mr. Darkholme that.
I just noticed something...
Both topics were started by the same person....
This person seems to bear some sort of hatred towards Asia in general....
Recieved NOV 7, 2005
Mantid
Bruce-Ganked-Lee
Actually, the katana topic and the European MA topic were both created by two different members. European MA did, in fact, exist. More notably are the systems which spawned both Folk and Roman-Greco wrestling. Both systems are valid martial arts. Savate is also another martial art which is traced back to France. Then of course the bazillion fencing styles which exist all through out Europe.
Boxing and Pancrase/Pankration(an Olympic sporting event which blended boxing and wrestling).
Now, just because an art lacks the proper uniform teachings that most Asian MA do, it does not mean they are any less valid. My father's family had their own style of martial arts....yet it was never passed down to anyone except other family. This was common place through out Viet Nam. Truly indigenous MA in Viet Nam are extinct. Also, logically, one cannot say that Europeans did not have their own fighting systems. Human beings, since the beginning, have had the need to defend themselves. So to say that only one group of humans could have their own systemized ways of fighting is just plain ignorant.
Oh and as for the topic creators "hate" for Asia. I'm under the impression that both members are, or have been, practitioners of E. Asian martial arts. Their points, which I think were made very clearly, are that Asian MA are not the uber invincible and superior arts that they are depicted as.....which I am inclined to agree with.
And lastly, the definition of martial arts is one of constant debate. For the most part, our guild considers ALL forms of combat as martial arts. This is to include most all weapons training(including the more recent projectile weapons we call guns). Its when one markets their art as complete or super effective without any evidence to support it where it becomes a problem. It just so happens that a lot of people who represent the TMA side of things end up refusing to test their skills on live and fully resisting opponents. Bullshit is rampant through-out the martial arts and is not exclusive to Europe or the Americas. Here is a website that you might find a tad informing(and it is the inspiration for my guild). http://www.bullshido.net
The people at that website actively go out and sniff out which schools/studios/arts are bullshit.
Ok, I made a mistake. The same user posted o both topics, and when i made the message, I only remembered that user.
I'd rather not answer any more questions or respond to anymore points, as it seems (To me) that the purpose of this exchange has been to anger/"convert"/make me look like an idiot. I was cooperative for long enough. Gaia is supposed to be a fun place to be, so I'd rather not get into an argument. How about...
You stay out of my guild.
I stay out of your guild.
Bye.
Of course, I declined his request.
Recieved DEC 11, 2005
Mantid
Bruce-Ganked-Lee
http://www.gaiaonline.com/guilds/viewtopic.php?t=530018&page=last
Undiplomatic AND innaccurate statement.
Undiplomatic AND innaccurate statement.
I told you to stay out of my guild.
Also, I have the right to say anything I want.
You may also recall my last message.
BYE.
And now they are a hidden guild.
The link above is to their Suggestion Box thread(which only members can see, now). Luckily I copied the bit regarding us, in my comp biggrin
Posted DEC, 10 2005 at 8:38 pm PST
Mantid
Go ahead and do the tourney if you want. If its inter martial arts guild though, dont invite anyone from the "Anti Bullshido" guild. They hate traditional martial arts, as well as any martial art that actually takes skill to master.
