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 Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:55 am
Rairi Sakurai There's so many double standards in society that nothing is ever really fair anymore. I saw some story (probably fake) about some kid who refused to say the Pledge of Allegiance... but because he no longer believed in "liberty and justice for all." This reminded me of my opinion of the pledge of allegiance. How many of you know the pledge of allegiance? I'm willing to bet that if you were born in the US, you know it word for word. Now, how many of you, as you were older, stopped and thought about what the pledge of allegiance was? Pledging allegiance, loyalty, a promise of adherence to a specific authority... from the age of 5 to 12, LONG before any of us should have been able to understand what we were promising. That is a rather direct form of brainwashing. I find it kind of funny that so many people focus only on the god portion. Why aren't they complaining that we're brainwashing our kids? Quote: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Stop for a second and think about it. Now, what are your thoughts on imposing this on children, forcing them, with threat of punishment if they're insubordinate, to make this promise every day of school before they have any understanding of what their promising? Beyond cheapening the promise, I feel as though it's an attempt to brainwash loyalty and subservience in the long run. Thoughts?
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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:48 am
My thought is... I'm glad I'm not American biggrin
Sounds tedious.
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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:54 am
I say the pledge of Allegiance everyday even though I don't have to anymore. I'm truly one of the few people in my class who bother to say the words instead of just standing up.
I do think it's a bit weird to FORCE them to say it everyday, I'd say it myself everyday regardless. As for brainwashing, anything forced on a person that they don't understand at the time can be constituted as that.
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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:04 am
Reminds me that I had to sit out in the sun for thirty minutes because I didn't want to say the pledge anymore. I should've told them that I don't care about God, I'm just here to goddamn study for a good life. >.> (And not for a life God would give me, the one I make myself >O)
Bu yeah, glad ever since I left third grade I haven't had to speak the pledge once. ^.^
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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:06 am
I stopped saying the "under god" part of it in middle school. Sorry, but there's no god supporting the country for me.
...come to think of it, why did we say it every freaking day in elementary school? Think of all the time we wasted!! We could've spent it learning stuff, or exercising since chances are we weren't getting enough!
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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:13 am
My school still does it.
Unfortunately, it happens at about 7:20 and I'm pretty much still asleep. It takes me about twenty seconds to stand up at 7:20 in the morning and.. well, it's mostly over by then. xd
I don't understand the "pledging allegiance to the flag" part. Maybe I'm being too literal, but I don't see the point in pledging my allegiance to a piece of red, white, and blue fabric.
I've never felt forced to say the pledge and I've never thought of it as "brainwashing"... that seems kind of silly to me. I don't know many people who take the pledge seriously because they're so used to it that it doesn't affect them anymore. It doesn't mean anything. Like you said, being forced to say it nearly every day is just weakening what it stands for. But brainwashing? I don't think that's the case. xd
I think little kids don't understand things. The pledge doesn't really mean anything to them. By the time they're old enough to understand what it means, they don't really care.
You can't really brainwash a kid because that implies they have really firmly grounded beliefs to begin with. It's not brainwashing... it's just giving them something to believe in. Which is why some people in the United States grow up into adults and believe that they should thirty guns hidden in their house and that anyone on their property deserves to get shot. lol
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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:17 am
I'm aligned with it, yeah. For now. It...... Well, it has it's upsides.
I hope to rip apart that damn republic, so that I can put it together in a way that works. It's been too heavily influenced by the greedy, and is rather ineffective because of it. The best systems are those that can't be used by the greedy.
Under god. Lulzy how that's still there, with the separation of church and state.
Indivisible. Yeah. Right. Name one other place on the planet that's got a more divided population.
Justice? I'm afraid that, after watching Law Abiding Citizen, I'm a little biased.
National Anthem, Pledge of Allegiance........ Meh. They're annoying, but not unbearable. And I do believe they instill some with a sense of pri-
Wait. s**t. Get rid of them. Pride leads to overconfidence, which leads to hell.
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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:08 pm
My friends had teachers who were going to suspend or give referrals for people who didn't stand up for the Pledge (but right at that moment the principal ran right in to say "Nope! You can't do that teachers!".
What the pledge means to me... well I never had time to think about it. I'll do it in sections:
- "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America": While I am in this country, I shall be patriotic for it since it allows me to live here w/ the freedoms today.
- "And to the republic for which it stands": power to the people that allows this country to be what it is today?
- "One nation, under G-d": well christianity was advocated durign the times, but not the case today because of tolerance and diversity.
- "Indivisible, for liberty and justice for all": Flawed. With the law system of today where lawyers, judges and police officers get the $$$ while the victims of families are the ones who have to pay for such things. Besides, the law isn't about honesty, it's just about who's cleverer thus having some people who seem guilty go off scott-free.
I'm still proud to be in this country, despite a few flaws going around such as the economy. The society isn't perfect and still working through a few things like relations, but I'm hoping that the Pledge still has some sort of impact on Americans to appreciate what their country has accomplished over the centuries.
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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:09 pm
I was so depressed each morning I had to stand up I hate talking I hate school I hate pledging I hate my chair I hate my school i hate putting my hand on my heart it feels uncomfortable thank go im not in elementary school anymore
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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:06 pm
After a while, I would just stand up without saying anything. It does kinda piss me off that they had me sayin' it before I knew what I was saying, though <.<
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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:19 pm
Little Miss Fortune After a while, I would just stand up without saying anything. It does kinda piss me off that they had me sayin' it before I knew what I was saying, though <.<
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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:13 pm
keito melfina My friends had teachers who were going to suspend or give referrals for people who didn't stand up for the Pledge (but right at that moment the principal ran right in to say "Nope! You can't do that teachers!".What the pledge means to me... well I never had time to think about it. I'll do it in sections: - "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America": While I am in this country, I shall be patriotic for it since it allows me to live here w/ the freedoms today. - "And to the republic for which it stands": power to the people that allows this country to be what it is today? - "One nation, under G-d": well christianity was advocated durign the times, but not the case today because of tolerance and diversity. - "Indivisible, for liberty and justice for all": Flawed. With the law system of today where lawyers, judges and police officers get the $$$ while the victims of families are the ones who have to pay for such things. Besides, the law isn't about honesty, it's just about who's cleverer thus having some people who seem guilty go off scott-free. I'm still proud to be in this country, despite a few flaws going around such as the economy. The society isn't perfect and still working through a few things like relations, but I'm hoping that the Pledge still has some sort of impact on Americans to appreciate what their country has accomplished over the centuries. He didn't want to get sued. lol
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Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:26 pm
CH0Z0 As for brainwashing, anything forced on a person that they don't understand at the time can be constituted as that. Perhaps, but I think there's a difference between, say, making a child eat vegetables everyday and exercise, vs. reciting a pledge of allegiance. Or if you want to make it a philosophical set of lessons only, teaching a kid about ethics and morals before (s)he can understand the importance rather than forcing him/her into blandly reciting a promise of loyalty.
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Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:27 am
The pledge has never meant much to me, I never even learned it. I knew the first part of it and would be able to say the whole thing if I was reciting with someone else since they could remind me what to say. But while growing up I never had reason to learn it, I didn't go to school so wasn't forced to learn it there and I never went to girl-scouts or camp so never learned it there either.
Normally when I have to recite it I say:
"I pledge allegiance to flag of the United States of America, *mumble, mumble* liberty and justice for all."
The parts I know I learned from hearing it recited a few times, from my sisters I think. (they both had to learn it at camp, they complained about it since everyone else already knew it from school they were the only ones that didn't know it).
I think the first line is the only part that everyone should know, though the last part is important as well as long as you know you're pledging allegiance to your country it doesn't really matter.
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Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:19 pm
I moved here 3 years ago... and thought the whole concept was stupid.
But yeah, I just went with the flow and did what everyone did.
These days I just skip the 'under god' part, since I don't believe in him/her/it.
Other than that... I don't really mind it.
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