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 Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:10 pm
heres what I have to say to the common arguments I hear from theists.
debate my points if you can twisted
1. How do you know there isn’t a god?
No one actually knows that there isn’t a god, though the lack of evidence for his existence means that the only rational conclusion that anyone could come to, concerning the existence of a god, is that his existence is to be considered indefinite until sufficient empirical evidence is presented to suggest otherwise.
2. God will send you to hell for not believing
Would one not be correct if one were to say that blind faith is quite an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence? If there is a god it seems only logical that he would more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.
3. God gives us hope that nothing else can give us
If one decides that they really want to believe that they can’t find hope through anything but god, than that’s the way it’s going to be for that individual, though it should be known that a great deal of atheists would certainly disagree if one was to claim that their lives were filled with nothing but hopelessness.
4. Look at all the design and beauty around you. This is not a result of random chance
Not only is random chance a probable cause of the “design and beauty” that is apparently evident, but if one were able to appreciate this so called “beauty” of the universe, than the only plausible explanation is that that individual had witnessed or seen something that they would deem unbeautiful in order to have something to base their opinion of beauty on; if such were true, than repulsiveness and unpleasantries would have to exist alongside beauty and design which only means that the universe is not so beautiful and perfect after all.
5a. Gnosis proves that there is a god
Because no one have any sort of proof to come to a valid conclusion on the subject of whether or not anyone’s personal experience was real or was even relevant to the existence of a god, it is only logical that such claim be dismissed as nothing more than moot.
5b. But by that reasoning your memory and senses are not reliable either.
Both gnosis and memories can be equally unreliable, this is true, however, unlike memory and gnosis, empirical evidence can be observed at any time and does not purely rely on one’s memory to suspend itself from oblivion and remain constant, therefore, it is more reliable than eyewitness accounts of any sort of experience, weather it be religious or not. And while one would not be wrong if they were to say that our perceived reality may not be real, such is an entirely different subject which is wholly irrelevant to the topic of religion.
6. Atheism is just as dogmatic as any other religion.
For some atheists, this may be true, however such stereotyping will only serve to demonstrate ignorance, just because one calls him or herself an atheist does not mean that they would instantly dismiss empirical evidence of a god even if said evidence was overwhelmingly obvious; some atheists may more closely resemble what one would call an agnostic individual, but such is entirely up to one’s own definition of the word atheist.
7. Atheists have no morals
Can one honestly say that without religion people would just go about killing and torturing each other whenever they feel like it? Real morals come from a sense of community, a feeling that if one doesn’t mistreat the other, said individual will be less likely to be mistreated in return. Morals derive from empathy and reason, not God.
8. God is real because the bible said so
That is called circular logic. It is just like saying that the ocean is blue because the sky is blue and the sky is blue because the ocean is blue, it doesn’t really make sense does it? Same thing goes for that argument.
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Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:29 pm
Yes it is indeed easy to put down flawed arguments in even the least intelligent of ways. But surely the issue should have been put to sleep long ago. Immanuel Kant You should not ask whether there is a God but rather act as you would if GOD existed.
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Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:38 pm
CH1YO Yes it is indeed easy to put down flawed arguments in even the least intelligent of ways. But surely the issue should have been put to sleep long ago. Immanuel Kant You should not ask whether there is a God but rather act as you would if GOD existed. only problem with that quote is how are people going to know what to act like if god existed without any actual proof of god's intentions and will?
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Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:47 pm
Undecillion CH1YO Yes it is indeed easy to put down flawed arguments in even the least intelligent of ways. But surely the issue should have been put to sleep long ago. Immanuel Kant You should not ask whether there is a God but rather act as you would if GOD existed. only problem with that quote is how are people going to know what to act like if god existed without any actual proof of god's intentions and will? That's not a problem at all, what an odd misreading to make. Untold millions of people conduct themselves under the assumption of there being a God without- as from this thread clearly is the case- any actual proof of GOD's intention or wills.
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Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:58 pm
And yet millions go about there life and days not believing in good. Your argument isn't sound CH1YO I get u believe in god but this is a general statement for people going about and screaming their religion is right so believe in so and so. Not that "God" doesn't exist it's just saying whether or not he/she/they exist just go about your life thinking they are watching over you. Unless your atheist of course then go about your life thinking Karma will get you back so be a good person. It's all that statement is saying CH1YO.
@ CH1YO I can't tell but are you a boy or girl. Can't tell by your Avi so sorry for the kinda weird question.
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Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:58 pm
CH1YO Undecillion CH1YO Yes it is indeed easy to put down flawed arguments in even the least intelligent of ways. But surely the issue should have been put to sleep long ago. Immanuel Kant You should not ask whether there is a God but rather act as you would if GOD existed. only problem with that quote is how are people going to know what to act like if god existed without any actual proof of god's intentions and will? That's not a problem at all, what an odd misreading to make. Untold millions of people conduct themselves under the assumption of there being a God without- as from this thread clearly is the case- any actual proof of GOD's intention or wills. What a terribly odd misreading to make. Untold millions of people have raped, tortured, murdered, pillaged, plundered, and enslaved others as a result of conducting themselves under the assumption of there being a God without- as from this thread clearly is the case- any actual proof of GOD's intention or wills.
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Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:59 pm
CH1YO Undecillion CH1YO Yes it is indeed easy to put down flawed arguments in even the least intelligent of ways. But surely the issue should have been put to sleep long ago. Immanuel Kant You should not ask whether there is a God but rather act as you would if GOD existed. only problem with that quote is how are people going to know what to act like if god existed without any actual proof of god's intentions and will? That's not a problem at all, what an odd misreading to make. Untold millions of people conduct themselves under the assumption of there being a God without- as from this thread clearly is the case- any actual proof of GOD's intention or wills. yes, though many of these people demonstrait contradictions between their idea of god's will, such as some think that homosexuals are going against god's will while others don't think so. without any actual knoledge of god's will, how are people to correctly comply to god's true will without basing their compliance on assumptions and guesses of what god desires of them?
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Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:08 pm
Undecillion heres what I have to say to the common arguments I hear from theists. debate my points if you can twisted I really hope those aren't the most common arguments you hear from theists. They're pretty pathetic. I don't see anything to debate, atheism is a very reasonable position to take and like good old Tom Paine pointed out, there is no reason to believe something based on the personal experiences of others. The majority of theists (from what I know) typically believe because they have a reason to and it oftentimes has to do with their own personal experiences. We may see the same world but we process everything differently.
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Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:15 pm
Semiremis Undecillion heres what I have to say to the common arguments I hear from theists. debate my points if you can twisted I really hope those aren't the most common arguments you hear from theists. They're pretty pathetic. I don't see anything to debate, atheism is a very reasonable position to take and like good old Tom Paine pointed out, there is no reason to believe something based on the personal experiences of others. The majority of theists (from what I know) typically believe because they have a reason to and it oftentimes has to do with their own personal experiences. We may see the same world but we process everything differently. yes, those are indeed the most common theist arguments I hear. if you can think of a half decent theist argument, than please share it with me. i will have fun debunking that one as well.
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Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:42 pm
Undecillion heres what I have to say to the common arguments I hear from theists. debate my points if you can twisted 1. How do you know there isn’t a god? No one actually knows that there isn’t a god, though the lack of evidence for his existence means that the only rational conclusion that anyone could come to, concerning the existence of a god, is that his existence is to be considered indefinite until sufficient empirical evidence is presented to suggest otherwise. 2. God will send you to hell for not believing Would one not be correct if one were to say that blind faith is quite an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence? If there is a god it seems only logical that he would more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear. 3. God gives us hope that nothing else can give us If one decides that they really want to believe that they can’t find hope through anything but god, than that’s the way it’s going to be for that individual, though it should be known that a great deal of atheists would certainly disagree if one was to claim that their lives were filled with nothing but hopelessness. 4. Look at all the design and beauty around you. This is not a result of random chance Not only is random chance a probable cause of the “design and beauty” that is apparently evident, but if one were able to appreciate this so called “beauty” of the universe, than the only plausible explanation is that that individual had witnessed or seen something that they would deem unbeautiful in order to have something to base their opinion of beauty on; if such were true, than repulsiveness and unpleasantries would have to exist alongside beauty and design which only means that the universe is not so beautiful and perfect after all. 5a. Gnosis proves that there is a god Because no one have any sort of proof to come to a valid conclusion on the subject of whether or not anyone’s personal experience was real or was even relevant to the existence of a god, it is only logical that such claim be dismissed as nothing more than moot. 5b. But by that reasoning your memory and senses are not reliable either. Both gnosis and memories can be equally unreliable, this is true, however, unlike memory and gnosis, empirical evidence can be observed at any time and does not purely rely on one’s memory to suspend itself from oblivion and remain constant, therefore, it is more reliable than eyewitness accounts of any sort of experience, weather it be religious or not. And while one would not be wrong if they were to say that our perceived reality may not be real, such is an entirely different subject which is wholly irrelevant to the topic of religion. 6. Atheism is just as dogmatic as any other religion. For some atheists, this may be true, however such stereotyping will only serve to demonstrate ignorance, just because one calls him or herself an atheist does not mean that they would instantly dismiss empirical evidence of a god even if said evidence was overwhelmingly obvious; some atheists may more closely resemble what one would call an agnostic individual, but such is entirely up to one’s own definition of the word atheist. 7. Atheists have no morals Can one honestly say that without religion people would just go about killing and torturing each other whenever they feel like it? Real morals come from a sense of community, a feeling that if one doesn’t mistreat the other, said individual will be less likely to be mistreated in return. Morals derive from empathy and reason, not God. 8. God is real because the bible said so That is called circular logic. It is just like saying that the ocean is blue because the sky is blue and the sky is blue because the ocean is blue, it doesn’t really make sense does it? Same thing goes for that argument. And your conclusion is?
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Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:54 pm
dio777 Undecillion heres what I have to say to the common arguments I hear from theists. debate my points if you can twisted 1. How do you know there isn’t a god? No one actually knows that there isn’t a god, though the lack of evidence for his existence means that the only rational conclusion that anyone could come to, concerning the existence of a god, is that his existence is to be considered indefinite until sufficient empirical evidence is presented to suggest otherwise. 2. God will send you to hell for not believing Would one not be correct if one were to say that blind faith is quite an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence? If there is a god it seems only logical that he would more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear. 3. God gives us hope that nothing else can give us If one decides that they really want to believe that they can’t find hope through anything but god, than that’s the way it’s going to be for that individual, though it should be known that a great deal of atheists would certainly disagree if one was to claim that their lives were filled with nothing but hopelessness. 4. Look at all the design and beauty around you. This is not a result of random chance Not only is random chance a probable cause of the “design and beauty” that is apparently evident, but if one were able to appreciate this so called “beauty” of the universe, than the only plausible explanation is that that individual had witnessed or seen something that they would deem unbeautiful in order to have something to base their opinion of beauty on; if such were true, than repulsiveness and unpleasantries would have to exist alongside beauty and design which only means that the universe is not so beautiful and perfect after all. 5a. Gnosis proves that there is a god Because no one have any sort of proof to come to a valid conclusion on the subject of whether or not anyone’s personal experience was real or was even relevant to the existence of a god, it is only logical that such claim be dismissed as nothing more than moot. 5b. But by that reasoning your memory and senses are not reliable either. Both gnosis and memories can be equally unreliable, this is true, however, unlike memory and gnosis, empirical evidence can be observed at any time and does not purely rely on one’s memory to suspend itself from oblivion and remain constant, therefore, it is more reliable than eyewitness accounts of any sort of experience, weather it be religious or not. And while one would not be wrong if they were to say that our perceived reality may not be real, such is an entirely different subject which is wholly irrelevant to the topic of religion. 6. Atheism is just as dogmatic as any other religion. For some atheists, this may be true, however such stereotyping will only serve to demonstrate ignorance, just because one calls him or herself an atheist does not mean that they would instantly dismiss empirical evidence of a god even if said evidence was overwhelmingly obvious; some atheists may more closely resemble what one would call an agnostic individual, but such is entirely up to one’s own definition of the word atheist. 7. Atheists have no morals Can one honestly say that without religion people would just go about killing and torturing each other whenever they feel like it? Real morals come from a sense of community, a feeling that if one doesn’t mistreat the other, said individual will be less likely to be mistreated in return. Morals derive from empathy and reason, not God. 8. God is real because the bible said so That is called circular logic. It is just like saying that the ocean is blue because the sky is blue and the sky is blue because the ocean is blue, it doesn’t really make sense does it? Same thing goes for that argument. And your conclusion is? ... my conclusion is that <3 looks like a heart... what do you think my conclusion is?
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Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:45 pm
Undecillion dio777 Undecillion heres what I have to say to the common arguments I hear from theists. debate my points if you can twisted 1. How do you know there isn’t a god? No one actually knows that there isn’t a god, though the lack of evidence for his existence means that the only rational conclusion that anyone could come to, concerning the existence of a god, is that his existence is to be considered indefinite until sufficient empirical evidence is presented to suggest otherwise. 2. God will send you to hell for not believing Would one not be correct if one were to say that blind faith is quite an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence? If there is a god it seems only logical that he would more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear. 3. God gives us hope that nothing else can give us If one decides that they really want to believe that they can’t find hope through anything but god, than that’s the way it’s going to be for that individual, though it should be known that a great deal of atheists would certainly disagree if one was to claim that their lives were filled with nothing but hopelessness. 4. Look at all the design and beauty around you. This is not a result of random chance Not only is random chance a probable cause of the “design and beauty” that is apparently evident, but if one were able to appreciate this so called “beauty” of the universe, than the only plausible explanation is that that individual had witnessed or seen something that they would deem unbeautiful in order to have something to base their opinion of beauty on; if such were true, than repulsiveness and unpleasantries would have to exist alongside beauty and design which only means that the universe is not so beautiful and perfect after all. 5a. Gnosis proves that there is a god Because no one have any sort of proof to come to a valid conclusion on the subject of whether or not anyone’s personal experience was real or was even relevant to the existence of a god, it is only logical that such claim be dismissed as nothing more than moot. 5b. But by that reasoning your memory and senses are not reliable either. Both gnosis and memories can be equally unreliable, this is true, however, unlike memory and gnosis, empirical evidence can be observed at any time and does not purely rely on one’s memory to suspend itself from oblivion and remain constant, therefore, it is more reliable than eyewitness accounts of any sort of experience, weather it be religious or not. And while one would not be wrong if they were to say that our perceived reality may not be real, such is an entirely different subject which is wholly irrelevant to the topic of religion. 6. Atheism is just as dogmatic as any other religion. For some atheists, this may be true, however such stereotyping will only serve to demonstrate ignorance, just because one calls him or herself an atheist does not mean that they would instantly dismiss empirical evidence of a god even if said evidence was overwhelmingly obvious; some atheists may more closely resemble what one would call an agnostic individual, but such is entirely up to one’s own definition of the word atheist. 7. Atheists have no morals Can one honestly say that without religion people would just go about killing and torturing each other whenever they feel like it? Real morals come from a sense of community, a feeling that if one doesn’t mistreat the other, said individual will be less likely to be mistreated in return. Morals derive from empathy and reason, not God. 8. God is real because the bible said so That is called circular logic. It is just like saying that the ocean is blue because the sky is blue and the sky is blue because the ocean is blue, it doesn’t really make sense does it? Same thing goes for that argument. And your conclusion is? ... my conclusion is that <3 looks like a heart... what do you think my conclusion is? I dunno, something along the lines of "I cant disprove god so i'll try to undermine theism by posting their most nieve arguments and then shift the burden by asking them to prove the opposite". Naturally you know this to be equally as impossible as the assertion you would like to make, but by shifting the burden you can then dismiss their arguments and try to make out a hollow victory and stroke off your own petit ego to boot. Am I right?
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Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:57 pm
dio777 Undecillion dio777 Undecillion heres what I have to say to the common arguments I hear from theists. debate my points if you can twisted 1. How do you know there isn’t a god? No one actually knows that there isn’t a god, though the lack of evidence for his existence means that the only rational conclusion that anyone could come to, concerning the existence of a god, is that his existence is to be considered indefinite until sufficient empirical evidence is presented to suggest otherwise. 2. God will send you to hell for not believing Would one not be correct if one were to say that blind faith is quite an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence? If there is a god it seems only logical that he would more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear. 3. God gives us hope that nothing else can give us If one decides that they really want to believe that they can’t find hope through anything but god, than that’s the way it’s going to be for that individual, though it should be known that a great deal of atheists would certainly disagree if one was to claim that their lives were filled with nothing but hopelessness. 4. Look at all the design and beauty around you. This is not a result of random chance Not only is random chance a probable cause of the “design and beauty” that is apparently evident, but if one were able to appreciate this so called “beauty” of the universe, than the only plausible explanation is that that individual had witnessed or seen something that they would deem unbeautiful in order to have something to base their opinion of beauty on; if such were true, than repulsiveness and unpleasantries would have to exist alongside beauty and design which only means that the universe is not so beautiful and perfect after all. 5a. Gnosis proves that there is a god Because no one have any sort of proof to come to a valid conclusion on the subject of whether or not anyone’s personal experience was real or was even relevant to the existence of a god, it is only logical that such claim be dismissed as nothing more than moot. 5b. But by that reasoning your memory and senses are not reliable either. Both gnosis and memories can be equally unreliable, this is true, however, unlike memory and gnosis, empirical evidence can be observed at any time and does not purely rely on one’s memory to suspend itself from oblivion and remain constant, therefore, it is more reliable than eyewitness accounts of any sort of experience, weather it be religious or not. And while one would not be wrong if they were to say that our perceived reality may not be real, such is an entirely different subject which is wholly irrelevant to the topic of religion. 6. Atheism is just as dogmatic as any other religion. For some atheists, this may be true, however such stereotyping will only serve to demonstrate ignorance, just because one calls him or herself an atheist does not mean that they would instantly dismiss empirical evidence of a god even if said evidence was overwhelmingly obvious; some atheists may more closely resemble what one would call an agnostic individual, but such is entirely up to one’s own definition of the word atheist. 7. Atheists have no morals Can one honestly say that without religion people would just go about killing and torturing each other whenever they feel like it? Real morals come from a sense of community, a feeling that if one doesn’t mistreat the other, said individual will be less likely to be mistreated in return. Morals derive from empathy and reason, not God. 8. God is real because the bible said so That is called circular logic. It is just like saying that the ocean is blue because the sky is blue and the sky is blue because the ocean is blue, it doesn’t really make sense does it? Same thing goes for that argument. And your conclusion is? ... my conclusion is that <3 looks like a heart... what do you think my conclusion is? I dunno, something along the lines of "I cant disprove god so i'll try to undermine theism by posting their most nieve arguments and then shift the burden by asking them to prove the opposite". Naturally you know this to be equally as impossible as the assertion you would like to make, but by shifting the burden you can then dismiss their arguments and try to make out a hollow victory and stroke off your own petit ego to boot. Am I right? well if your so certain that you can come up with an entierly logical and undeniable argument for theism than please, don't hold back.
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Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:38 pm
Zslone2 And yet millions go about there life and days not believing in good. Your argument isn't sound CH1YO I get u believe in god but this is a general statement for people going about and screaming their religion is right so believe in so and so. Not that "God" doesn't exist it's just saying whether or not he/she/they exist just go about your life thinking they are watching over you. Unless your atheist of course then go about your life thinking Karma will get you back so be a good person. It's all that statement is saying CH1YO. @ CH1YO I can't tell but are you a boy or girl. Can't tell by your Avi so sorry for the kinda weird question. Do you mean to say not believing in good? I don't have any terribly definite religious leanings. It's not a Karmic statement, rather a social one. My Avi wears dresses.
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Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:40 pm
Semiremis CH1YO Undecillion CH1YO Yes it is indeed easy to put down flawed arguments in even the least intelligent of ways. But surely the issue should have been put to sleep long ago. Immanuel Kant You should not ask whether there is a God but rather act as you would if GOD existed. only problem with that quote is how are people going to know what to act like if god existed without any actual proof of god's intentions and will? That's not a problem at all, what an odd misreading to make. Untold millions of people conduct themselves under the assumption of there being a God without- as from this thread clearly is the case- any actual proof of GOD's intention or wills. What a terribly odd misreading to make. Untold millions of people have raped, tortured, murdered, pillaged, plundered, and enslaved others as a result of conducting themselves under the assumption of there being a God without- as from this thread clearly is the case- any actual proof of GOD's intention or wills. Of myself? Nay. That is hyperbole surely or are you a rabid Marxist?
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