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pirhan
Crew

PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:40 pm


It's a video - haven't watched it yet (not at home and Interwebz is sketch here) but wanted to share regardless:

Conservationist Argues We Should Let Panda's Die via Jezebel.

Thoughts?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:46 pm




I'm watching a movie right now, so I couldn't click the video, but I googled it and read a few articles. I think, why not keep trying? Pandas are cool and let's face it, nothing we do matters on any scale anyway. The money that gets spent on it doesn't matter, and whether we succeed or not doesn't matter. Humans will be gone soon enough, and the world will continue it's course. If we're gone and they die out, okay. If we're gone and they live, more power to them.


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LorienLlewellyn

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:44 pm


I don't care how stupid an animal seems to us, it still deserves to live. And if we're the ones that threatened a species, I think we are obligated to do our best to help that species.
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:49 pm


By that logic we should just let sick people die to make room for new ones or to weed out the human race "natural selection-style". The way I see it, if we destroyed an animal's habitat then it's our responsibility to help them regain their numbers and thrive again. I don't see what that harm is in that. It's not as though they are already extinct and someone is trying create them all over again with cloning or something.

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Koren-the-Phoenix

PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:52 pm


Agreed, these are not like the mammoth that died out from natural causes, these are creatures that are endangered because we don't properly fit into the food chain.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:53 am


We can't save everything, or everyone. I, for one, (and I'm not the only one) am really fed up with people who will do absolutely anything to save an animal, and yet find nothing wrong with abortion, witholding care from the elderly, forced sterilization, etc., in human beings.

How twisted is it that the most fertile and productive farmland in the world, in California's Central Valley, is turning into desert because a species of minnow is endangered, and water is being witheld from the farmers? What about the millions of people who live and work there? What about the economic impact of lost work, and the resulting increase in government spending to feed the people? What about the resulting increase in food prices? The resulting decrease in food supply? The economic impact of masses of people relocating, the emotional impact of lost homes and businesses and broken families?

There is a domino effect with almost any decision we make, and the consequences of governmental decisions can be huge. What happened to common sense? Yes, the wolves are beautiful, and they have a place in the total scheme of things----but if I raise sheep, and they are attacked by wolves, I don't welcome the wolves with open arms---all other deterrents having failed, I shoot them!

We love animals, but things must be returned to their proper perspective. An overabundance of concern for habitat for an animal can lead to shortsighted and dangerous legislation that impacts everyone.

Human beings are more important than the animals. Just the truth. I love my animals, but I will never choose to save an animal over the welfare of a person. There will be times when a compromise will be unattainable, and a choice must be made. This is not one of those times. Sometimes the habitat is gone because it's time for it to go. We seem to be able to embrace "change" in areas of our lives that are much more important than this, with much less careful consideration, or press coverage.

Ever wonder about that? Maybe you should.

sunsetsmile
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:26 am




Human beings are nothing more than another animal. We've driven the world to this wasteland that it is. Soon we'll kill it. Because we have so much compassion for our own species, we'll save people that should be dead to the point where the world is overpopulated like it is. As we get better at curing whatever ails us, there simply won't be enough room even for us. Then, eventually, humans will die out and the world will start to repair it's self. That is inevitable. No species lasts forever, because the world is not meant to work like that. However, we did ******** up with the panda, and it's our responsibility to at least help it to the point where it can survive or die out on it's own.

To be quite honest, forced sterilization sounds like a brilliant idea. Since people are living waay too long, we need to do something to slow down the growth of our population.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:30 am


Humanity isn't on the verge of extinction, besides bacteria we are one of the most prevalent life forms on the planet. If that sounds harsh then remind yourself that life isn't fair. I feel that people get mistreated, and sympathies. But it isn't going to end our species to go the extra mile to see that we don't end all the other species of animals around us. Caring about our own species that isn't endangered over those that are is just selfish.

Koren-the-Phoenix


Koren-the-Phoenix

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:37 am


Vanilla eXee


To be quite honest, forced sterilization sounds like a brilliant idea. Since people are living waay too long, we need to do something to slow down the growth of our population.



I agree, or some form of birth control system that only allows you to have one child per person, keeping the population at it's current level. But face facts, without a cataclysm on a massive scale humanity isn't going anywhere. We are too adaptable. The kind of cataclysmic event it would take to whip us out would likely whip out 90 - 100% of all life on this planet. Now a cataclysm could reduce our numbers drastically though.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:42 am


Nope, human beings are much more than another animal.

Overpopulation occurs in pockets---there are vast areas where humans can live, but don't. Of course, there could be wolves there----! And there's no medical care, mass transit, grocery stores or (believe it or not) Starbucks. "Health food" grows in your own garden, and there are no gym memberships necessary.

There is a difference between protecting a species and preserving it as a relic, to be peeked at in a zoo. Many times, efforts to preseve a species result in an animal that can no longer live as it was designed to live. If the species can flourish in the wild, it's worth working for. If the habitat is gone, it's gone.

Forced sterilization could have prevented your voice from being heard, just as abortion would have. The answer to overpopulation, as well as a host of other problems, is personal responsibility.

Healthy people tend to live a long and productive life. Who's to say when it's time for YOU to go? Sounds a lot like "Soylent Green" to me. Length of life should not be someone else's decision.

sunsetsmile
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Ellavemia

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:59 am


I think our disregard for natural habitats and other species is what will put humans close to extinction at some point. Humans tend to forget that we're all part of an ecosystem. Earth is not just a chunk of rock placed here for our frivolous jollies. Over-humanitarianism can be just as detrimental as not enough because it soon becomes more selfish exploitation than altruism.

Honestly is there more research funding going toward designer babies or panda re-population? I don't have specific numbers, but I have a feeling that research follows cash, and pandas and other animals are pretty poor.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:01 am


I like humans. But we have to stop seeing ourselves as something different from and better than animals. We are animals.

Are there times when we might have to choose to save one thing and not another? Perhaps. But usually all it takes to save an animal is to stop hunting it, or to stop cutting down it's home, or to stop dumping our waste in its drinking water. I don't think that's too much to ask.

I would give anything to get some forced human sterilization around here. Let's face it, there are some people who absolutely should not be having children. I'm not saying we should sterilize everyone. But maybe convicted felons? People with a history of child abuse? People who had their other children taken away by Social Services? Those people who have 18 kids and plan on having more? Basically if we're pretty sure that putting another child with a person would be dangerous, I think we should probably consider intervening.

LorienLlewellyn

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sunsetsmile
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:11 pm


You can see the difference between animals and humans everywhere, everyday.

When you hear of a penquin production of "Romeo and Juliet," a koala symphony playing Bach, beautiful artwork or music or poetry not only performed by, but created by, animals, please send me a ticket. I will be there with bells on, bring all my friends and family, and be sure that the entire world can see the videos.

We are not the same. We have a spirit that can be moved to tears by a child's laugh, beautiful music, suffering of any kind, a sunset. We love fiercely, defend fiercely, sacrifice not only for each other, but also for abstract concepts such as freedom, beyond what any animal is capable of, willingly and deliberately choosing to act in a way that could most assuredly cause our deaths. We write our histories, and build upon those things learned from our ancestors, whether right or wrong. We plan for the future and work toward common goals never even imagined by those who lived before us.

Do not confuse instinct with intellect, or soul (personality) with spirit.

We CHOOSE. We are not tied to fight-or-flight, or anything else.

We DREAM, we PLAN, we BUILD!

We take care of those (including the animals) who cannot take care of themselves.

We are not animals, unless we are raised to believe that we are no different from them, and that it doesn't matter what we do. Mere experience teaches that actions have consequences. What is the consequence of being raised to believe that you are no more, and no less, than an animal? Look around you. The value placed on human life as opposed to the value of animal life is totally messed up-----and your own spirit tells you that if you believe that slavery is wrong. We can choose to own animals, but to own another human being is something no one can condone.

Anyone who tells you that you are an animal, no better than an animal, worth less than an animal, has an ulterior motive. It might be good to figure out what it is!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:18 pm


Yes, we are different from other animals. But other animals are different from each other too. It doesn't mean they're not animals. The zebra is unique with it's stripes, but that doesn't mean it isn't an animal. Just like our intelligence and creativity does not mean that we are not animals.

LorienLlewellyn

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