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 Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:22 pm
 I don't know if this should go in the Satan Pit, before you get all mean, read through.
Setting aside my own shipperness, I was thinking about Rose and why people don't like her.
I understand she's a bit of a Mary Sue but there's nothing THAT bad about her, so I don't understand when people hate Rose so much. You know?
Everyone has their favorite companion and I admit I've had my fair share of squeeing(Rose) and ranting(Martha). But really, none of the companions are that AWFUL.
Rose is a likeable character. She may be a kind of average companion on her own, but she is still a strong character that goes well as a companion to the Doctor.
((EDIT))
Who DOESN'T like Rose? I mean seriously. I know everyone can have their opinions and all that liberal crap, but seriously. How. Can. You. Think. Rose. Is. A. Bad. Companion. She is like, WOOOOONNNNDUUURRRFILLL!!!!!!!!
I saw someone on deviantART who in the info of their deviation had a whole rant about Rose's Sue-ness. Now, a few things I have to say to that.
1. Rose is a perfectly dimensional character.
2. She had a personality and grew as a character over the course of the show unlike some other Sues I know. *coughBellaSwancough*
3. Rose was not all "OMG!!!1! SOULMATES!!!1!!1" with the Doctor right away. In 'The End of the World' she actually was kind of like 'omg. i ran off with a total stranger. he may rape me. what am i going to do?' unlike some other companions I know *coughMarthacough*
4. When Rose WAS all "OMG!!!!1! LOVE MY DOCTAH!" it was after they'd been traveling and it was LOVE. He LOVED HER TOO.
5. Rose is awesome.
Any thoughts on this? 
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Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:15 pm
No I don't even see Rose as A Mary-Sue. She didn't come into the Doctor's life going "OMG I'M LIEK PERFECT AND SMART AND BEUATIFUL AND I'M LIEK SO IMPORTANT AND YOU FALL IN LOVE WITH ME RIGHT AS YOU SEE ME CAUSE I'M SO BEATUFUL!"
No Rose had her flaws, she dropped out of school. She moved in with a dead beat boyfriend. She worked at Henricks clothing store. She made a living working, she's not beuatiful just average looking. She's not Smart...said so herself. And the only reason she becomes important is because she falls for him...and she doesn't fall for him right away and neither does he.
If anyone is a Mary-Sue it's Steven Moffets characters, even Jack is molded from gold. Rienette was a princess, she was beautiful and smart. River is an Archoligist, beautiful and completely obsessed with the Doctor. These are the characters I believe are Mary-Sue's
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Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:48 am
I kind of think so too, just putting it in there for all the people who would flame me if I didn't. 3nodding
Rose was very pretty actually. ^^ Or Billie Piper is. Rose wore a bit too much makeup, sooo........yah
And she gets pretty smart later on in the show.
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Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:25 am
I liked Rose, so did my mom. Hell, my mom's still in denial about Rose being permanently stuck in the parallel world. (she has yet to see S4) Donna was my personal favorite, I seem to be one of the only ones who really liked her character.
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Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:07 pm
The term "Mary Sue" gets thrown around way too flippantly these days... It's beginning to be that all girl characters who may be considered love interests are immediately labeled Sues and they really aren't. This is most commonly done by someone who doesn't like the character in question, so they just throw the term out like a swear word against the character.
I don't think anyone is Doctor Who is a Sue. If someone tried to make a character who had zero "Mary Sue" traits, the character would be flat and bland. You can't say "She's a Mary Sue because she's smart and pretty and she loves the main character!" because that is just you not liking the character for some reason and lashing out. I mean, I'm not a fan of Martha, but that doesn't make her a Mary Sue.
Anyway, I don't hate Rose. I like her. I thought she was interesting and fun. I don't understand where all the hate comes from or why people call her whiny (or why no one can seem to spell that word...). I'd like to challenge anyone to show me a time that she genuinely whined about anything.
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Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:53 pm
Swivils I liked Rose, so did my mom. Hell, my mom's still in denial about Rose being permanently stuck in the parallel world. (she has yet to see S4) Donna was my personal favorite, I seem to be one of the only ones who really liked her character.
I like Donna. Donna was nice. She was a bit of a plain character but was so perfect for the Doctor because she wasn't all *omglust*
I think Rose is technically trapped in the parallel universe, but you know how it goes with Doctor Who.....I think there will be ten babies in the distant future. whee
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Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:53 pm
Eruravenne The term "Mary Sue" gets thrown around way too flippantly these days... It's beginning to be that all girl characters who may be considered love interests are immediately labeled Sues and they really aren't. This is most commonly done by someone who doesn't like the character in question, so they just throw the term out like a swear word against the character. I don't think anyone is Doctor Who is a Sue. If someone tried to make a character who had zero "Mary Sue" traits, the character would be flat and bland. You can't say "She's a Mary Sue because she's smart and pretty and she loves the main character!" because that is just you not liking the character for some reason and lashing out. I mean, I'm not a fan of Martha, but that doesn't make her a Mary Sue. Anyway, I don't hate Rose. I like her. I thought she was interesting and fun. I don't understand where all the hate comes from or why people call her whiny (or why no one can seem to spell that word...). I'd like to challenge anyone to show me a time that she genuinely whined about anything. Yeaaah. Mary Sue = self-insert. The last one I've seen recently was from Twilight. And that's a blatantly obvious one. Rose isn't a Mary Sue at all. She just has a few traits but what character doesn't? I loved her and her storyline and even remember trying to valiantly (fangirlishly) defend her during the summer leading up to Martha's premiere. When Rose's (amazing) storyline arc ended, it was well-done. Her showing up again was what made me dislike her character. (Mostly RTD but Rose wasn't helping any)
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Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:47 pm
Don't hate Rose - just let her story be done already! Yes, we all know her purpose was to get the Doctor back where he was, and yeah, they fell for each other, but c'mon she now has Alt!Ten, aka her dream, let the show progress.
As for the others - River was meant to do something different : namely, a Companion the Doc hadn't even met yet. (Apparently, they wantdee to do Mel right. Snicker.)
The closest the show's ever come to a Mary Sue is Donna - and btw, she happens to be one of my favorites.
Let's just hope Moffatt get the show right. I recommend going back in time, preventing Mel from ever boarding the TARDIS in the first place and then oh, I dunno, teaching the Master the difference between being menacing and being pork. Heh. Yes, I'm referring to Ainley. Deal with it. rofl
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Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:31 pm
River_Moonwolf Don't hate Rose - just let her story be done already! Yes, we all know her purpose was to get the Doctor back where he was, and yeah, they fell for each other, but c'mon she now has Alt!Ten, aka her dream, let the show progress. As for the others - River was meant to do something different : namely, a Companion the Doc hadn't even met yet. (Apparently, they wantdee to do Mel right. Snicker.) The closest the show's ever come to a Mary Sue is Donna - and btw, she happens to be one of my favorites. Let's just hope Moffatt get the show right. I recommend going back in time, preventing Mel from ever boarding the TARDIS in the first place and then oh, I dunno, teaching the Master the difference between being menacing and being pork. Heh. Yes, I'm referring to Ainley. Deal with it. rofl
I personally hated River and found her to be a Sue. I think she was obnoxious, arrogant, and thinking she was a lot more special than she really was. At least, as far as we know. If you're going to have a character that is supposedly important to a future Doctor and is so smart and wonderful and loved by the Doctor. At least explain why. They'll probably just forget about her and let her character die off.
Jeesh, sure hope that doesn't happen with Jenny. Anyone else think Jenny NEEDS to return?
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Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:30 am
First, I don't see Rose as a Mary Sue. We as fans are supposed to be able to relate to her, and personally I find her very relatable. Each individual companion has there differences. Rose fell in love with the Doctor, but gradually. Martha was the one who was all "OMG!! I Love YOU!!!". That doesn't mean that she is a Mary-Sue either, though. All of the Doctor's companions are 'clever', as he always says. They are human and have their flaws, but that is what makes us humans unique and brilliant. Also, I see nothing wrong with Rose showing up in Journey's End. ALL the characters from the new seasons were there, at least the important ones. If they would have brought back everyone but Rose, it would have lacked something. So I believe that we should just leave poor Rose alone already.
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Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:27 am
I found myself disliking her for... well... no particular reason sweatdrop
She was the first companion I ever saw on DW. I thought she was ok at first. then i was all stare after about 1 season. she just irritated me, whitch is strange because i didnt find her very annoying like some people... just... idk talk2hand
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Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:15 pm
@River_Moonwolf: What? How on Earth is Donna any closer to being a Sue than anyone else? O.o?? The only thing I can think of is that she had something vaguely "special" about her. Something we never really found out what was (I don't think it was the whole "DoctorDonna" thing). She did get "special powers" but only for like, ten minutes. I'm really not seeing where you're coming from here.
@plastered with posters: Jenny is, quite honestly, a lot closer to being a Sue than River. I mean, she's practically straight out of a fanfic... She's young, blond, pretty, spunky, a genius, a girl, the random daughter of the Doctor, born (or created) in the middle of a war, she lacks much depth, she's annoying, yet everyone seems to like her, she sacrificed herself heroically and then randomly came back to life when she wasn't supposed to (at least River is a bodiless entity inside a computer)... It's amazing... I actually forgot about her when I said there are no Sues in DW. I think I may reconsider that opinion, heh. All that would be needed is the episode actually having been written by some tween girl and we could all say "self-insert!"
As far as River goes, we don't actually know what she'll be like when she's a companion, so it isn't really fair to call her a Sue just yet (but I don't like her, either...). Also, since she was created by Steven Moffat (if I remember right), she'll probably not be vanishing into oblivion anytime soon.
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Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:02 pm
Eruravenne @River_Moonwolf: What? How on Earth is Donna any closer to being a Sue than anyone else? O.o?? The only thing I can think of is that she had something vaguely "special" about her. Something we never really found out what was (I don't think it was the whole "DoctorDonna" thing). She did get "special powers" but only for like, ten minutes. I'm really not seeing where you're coming from here. @plastered with posters: Jenny is, quite honestly, a lot closer to being a Sue than River. I mean, she's practically straight out of a fanfic... She's young, blond, pretty, spunky, a genius, a girl, the random daughter of the Doctor, born (or created) in the middle of a war, she lacks much depth, she's annoying, yet everyone seems to like her, she sacrificed herself heroically and then randomly came back to life when she wasn't supposed to (at least River is a bodiless entity inside a computer)... It's amazing... I actually forgot about her when I said there are no Sues in DW. I think I may reconsider that opinion, heh. All that would be needed is the episode actually having been written by some tween girl and we could all say "self-insert!" As far as River goes, we don't actually know what she'll be like when she's a companion, so it isn't really fair to call her a Sue just yet (but I don't like her, either...). Also, since she was created by Steven Moffat (if I remember right), she'll probably not be vanishing into oblivion anytime soon.
I agree that Donna wasn't really a Sue.
Jenny, I didn't like her so much as Jenny, but I liked her for what she represented for the Doctor and what she meant to him. She was something that could actually make his life worthwhile. As an individual, she wasn't the greatest character though. I also think if some tween girl wrote a script, their self-insert would be 10's Girlfriend.
I don't think River was a Sue, but I found her INCREDIBLY irritating.
@jessiefrance
I LOVE Rose, I don't think she's a Sue at all. I just was commenting on things and points of view other people have.
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Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:05 pm
plastered with posters Jenny, I didn't like her so much as Jenny, but I liked her for what she represented for the Doctor and what she meant to him. She was something that could actually make his life worthwhile. As an individual, she wasn't the greatest character though. I also think if some tween girl wrote a script, their self-insert would be 10's Girlfriend. Yeah, I probably would have liked her more if she'd been represented in a different way. I mean, the idea of the Doctor having a daughter isn't completely out there. I mean, his granddaughter was the first companion. I even liked the premise of Jenny's episode. I just really, really didn't like her character (personality, dialogue, actions...) at all. And you have a point about the tween girl, lol.
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Posted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:48 pm
Eruravenne plastered with posters Jenny, I didn't like her so much as Jenny, but I liked her for what she represented for the Doctor and what she meant to him. She was something that could actually make his life worthwhile. As an individual, she wasn't the greatest character though. I also think if some tween girl wrote a script, their self-insert would be 10's Girlfriend. Yeah, I probably would have liked her more if she'd been represented in a different way. I mean, the idea of the Doctor having a daughter isn't completely out there. I mean, his granddaughter was the first companion. I even liked the premise of Jenny's episode. I just really, really didn't like her character (personality, dialogue, actions...) at all. And you have a point about the tween girl, lol.
yeah, I LOVED Jenny as an idea, a confident girl who played the Doctor's daughter and wasn't afraid to stand up to him. Also, for the Doctor, Jenny was someone he could live for, that wouldn't leave him because they were the only one's the other hard. However, she was a little obnoxious as a literal character.
Basically, exactly what I said before.
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