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 Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:01 pm
Ok so I was having a discussion with a friend of mine who happens to be Christian on Saturday night, here is one of the posts: Quote: What evidence does evolution have? If you look at this world, the way it was created, it cannot be even a few more inches further or closer to the sun, or else drastic temperatures would kill us. If you look at the atmosphere, it was created so perfectly. This cannot be a coincidence. And another question. What was there from the very very beginning, before the "Big Bang"? Something must have started. To which I responded: Quote: Well the universe is projected to burn out all the avalible matter in a few trillion years and when all the matter is burnt out it will all colapse into two super massive black holes and when they finally catch each other in orbit, the immense gravity manipulation will cause gathered matter to heat up, causing an explosion in a reduced area that will in turn cause a chain reaction that recreates all other matter: aka the big bang. Our position in the solar system? There is a large chance that nebulae will compress with a star in the center and celestial matter in a Goldilocks zone. Our solar system is just one in hundreds of millions. Then he said: Quote: Those are all theorems. I hear new stories every day. What proof do you have of that? Have you seen the process go through in your own eyes? Realize that the world will end one day, it states in the Bible. We mostly rely on God through faith. You did not answer the beginning of time question. What is your answer? To which I responded: Quote: Theorums, let's put you in a quantum physics class and see how you understand it. Time is a continualy flowing essence of matter. When the universe runs out of time, it just resets itself like how you change batteries in a clock. God? Tell me how he creates all the matter in exsistance. Tell me how he got here because nobody can last eternity. Visual proof? Unfortunetly the human body cells are biological, so they can't last very long, only a smidget in time. We aren't at the end though, there is still enough elements to produce biological matter for quite some time. So have you seen god with your own eyes? All you have is a book with countless authors. So you basically get the point of this post, I just want to know what you think about the "beginning" and such. Please note that we didn't get into a fight or anything at the end, we just went to bed and woke up the next day as regular friends. I don't want to start anything here so please be considerate.
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Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:53 pm
This is actually part of why I don't care that much about origins from a theological or philosophical standpoint. As a *scientist* however - and one in the field of biology - it would be idiotic for me to ignore the explanatory power evolutionary theory has to explain why things are how they are now and in what direction they might head. On a day to day basis, however, it really doesn't matter all that much how we got here. We are here. What is more important is what is done with the fact that we are here, eh?
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:18 pm
...I've been a member of this guild for a while now, but can't remember the last time I posted, if ever! This is mostly train-of-thought; I will admit to having some biases but I hope this is open enough. If any or all of this is kind of vague, it's because it's from one point of view that doesn't know everything! o___o
I grew up liking science books, favoring dinosaurs, with some interest in outer space. I also grew up Christian; Episcopalian specifically, going to services most weeks. I'm sure I knew about evolution, or at least the basic idea that life-forms change over time, and that Earth and space were super old, before I needed it for school. So I was a bit surprised when I first learned that there were people who denied integral elements of some of my favorite topics! I hadn't considered there being a conflict; I'd gone to Sunday schools at most of the churches I grew up with, but concerning Genesis stories, the focus was more on theology than teaching the logistics of Noah's Ark and handwaving geological time.
(I'm going to just save myself some plagiarized babble now and say that Wonderful Life contains a lot I agree with. Go read it. Don't have to agree with everything you read, but reading is good.)
I work at a natural history museum in middle America, and with 2009 being both Darwin's 200th birthday and the 150th anniversary of the publication of The Origin of Species, creationists and "intelligent design" proponents have been coming out all over. I respect people's right to believe whatever, but that doesn't mean that whatever can cut in line during peer review. I think about this stuff a lot, but mostly it just makes me angry. The theological and spiritual tradition I settled in (still Episcopal!) knows the Bible wasn't written in English, probably none of the Evangelists knew Jesus in person, the sorts of things that get some people's panties in a bunch. I could go on and on about this, but this is a forum post, not my memoirs.
"ID" doesn't irritate me as much as straight-up creationism, but the theological arrogance ("we know how God thinks!") and selective-hearing genetics bugs me. Maybe it's the new Tychonic system! I think the "Darwin debate" is just a media buzzword, and I don't think the warfare hypothesis always applies, either; maybe only if you have to polarize everything, or don't think for yourself. It's like...ask certain people about evolution and you might get smug witticisms stolen from a bumper sticker or LJ icon they saw, whatever side they're on. Ask me and you'll probably get something like "come look at this field jacket full of tenontosaur bones! It's so cool!" and either my fingers will be sticking from fossil superglue or I'll smell of acetone and several flavors of dust. Or I'll get excited about synapsis, therapsids, and jaw- and ear-bones.
We do get lots of school groups visiting the museum, including a lot of church-affiliated private schools. I've met one creationist homeschooler mom and her kids (the kids were super cute), but if any of the private school chaperones have a problem with there not being Day markers in the ancient life gallery, no one's said a thing to me. Which leaves me to assume that either they've given or will give the students a Talking-To on the bus, or that they are fine with evolution and geology too and the "debate" is the voices of a few people with power.
P.S. I still like dinosaurs, but have developed an obsession with the early and middle Cenozoic. Mammals and birds like ours, but weirder!
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Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 4:36 pm
Gryphon: ID (Intelligent Design) is Creationism, with some of the words replaced to sound more politically correct. Ironically, one could say ID proves at least mnemonic evolution, given the previous sentence.
But, yea, the vocal minority sucks.
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