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 Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:41 pm
[ Message temporarily off-line ]
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 3:10 pm
... That's a long post. I'm sure I will read it at some point but that point is obviously not now.
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:05 pm
Chalda ... That's a long post. I'm sure I will read it at some point but that point is obviously not now. Agreed. Write a book, why don't you, ButterBalls?
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:36 pm
Thomas Neo Anderson Chalda ... That's a long post. I'm sure I will read it at some point but that point is obviously not now. Agreed. Write a book, why don't you, ButterBalls?
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Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:28 pm
ButterBalls Thomas Neo Anderson Chalda ... That's a long post. I'm sure I will read it at some point but that point is obviously not now. Agreed. Write a book, why don't you, ButterBalls? Yes it is.
Why do we all keep quoting so much...
It's so unnecessary.
Aw hell, I just added to the problem.
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:20 pm
[ Message temporarily off-line ]
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 3:33 pm
Teh Sena Alright, the first thing I want to know is, whose interpretation of the Bible are you using? The answer to if homosexual couples should marry is different depending on the group or individual doing the interpreting. Obviously the Bible condemns sex and the like out of marriage, so some people think this means homosexuals are sinning. It is also in the Bible that marriage is not about love, but the "purpose to propagate race". If you as a literal Bible interpreter about this, they will say that because a homosexual couple cannot further the human race themselves, they should not be married. Its true that now children can be adopted and raised successfully by a homosexual couple, but when the law books in the Bible were written, this was not a factor. It was written not only after the time of Christ, but by man. Humanity is rather flawed, so basing opinions on the hard text of the Bible is nonsensical in my mind. However, to be accepting, there are people who believe that the Bible was just thrown down apon us from the heavens. But enough about the Bible, now about society eating everything religion throws at them. I attend a private Catholic all girls? school. We've have every religion expressed there. One of my good friends is very obsessed with her religion, she is Protestant, and she often pushes her beliefs on others. For each person like my friend, I've met at least 15 people who deny the existence of a god. I highly doubt the debate on homosexual marriage is solely based on religious preferences. This does not make sense to me. Ever hear that homosexuals don't have the same rights as heterosexual people? I do not see how this applies, a straight man can't marry another man, and neither can a gay man. So a gay man loves another gay man? If you're going with a Biblical spin, you'd find that fact completely irrelevant. Beyond the idea of religion and straight people condemning "Gay marriage" there are plenty of homosexuals who oppose the idea as well. I'm attracted to females, and I am female so I could be called gay myself. I'm also a confirmed catholic and am very educated on Catholicism and Biblical interpretations. If I fell in love with another female that I wanted to marry, I would not be upset that it is not allowed, I would also not be upset that my actions would be considered a sin. I have always believed that there is something out there, and if he cares about humanity, I think that he would have to be a very compassionate and loving thing. In other words, that he would forgive those who didn't follow laws in some book. To anyone that decides I weaved too much personal interpretation into this: Isn't twining together our experiences and beliefs into opinions are what opinions are made of? That's my spin. Hope it made some sense. Not so much a debate, just some response.
Yes, but if you look at it from the point of view that they're not justifying it by the bible you will see that they think it's about love and committment and things like that. See, it's kind of a double standard and it's really stupid if you think about it. I think people are so worried and hyped up about the bible that they're just not thinking about the issue and looking at its entirety.
"Ever hear that homosexuals don't have the same rights as heterosexual people?" I don't even remember saying that but if I did then it was probably because I was just saying that generally homosexuals have less rights than heterosexual people. And I didn't use all biblical interpretation for it.
Yeah, I've heard about that before but it makes me really wonder why they oppose it. I mean, there could be a very valid reason and without that it might make them think differently. For example, they feel guilty about the whole thing. Or they're religious and don't want to go against their religion.
Well, yes, but that's not really going from the bible at all and with that it makes it totally ok. I think a lot of people wouldn't condemn it because of that. I think you're right though.
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:32 pm
ButterBalls "Ever hear that homosexuals don't have the same rights as heterosexual people?" I don't even remember saying that but if I did then it was probably because I was just saying that generally homosexuals have less rights than heterosexual people. And I didn't use all biblical interpretation for it. I more talking about how people say that gay people don't have as many rights as straight people. Everyone has the right to get married. Yes, but not to thier gender. My point is that both have the same rights. Now, you didn't use Biblical explaination, I was just giving an example of something that has been used to justify anti-gay marriage sentiment. I think the reason some homosexuals don't agree with gay marriage is because they know that they love the person that they are with. If you love the person you're with, why do you need marriage to deepen your love or to show the commitment if it is in your heart? I think there would be more religious guilt on those unmarried than those married. Which makes me wonder, do people really want to get married to feel less guilty? Some, perhaps.
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Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:37 pm
Isn't it that most gay people want to get married because they can get like... tax benefits or something, combined insurance...?
From what I understand gay marrige is really just about money.
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 5:29 pm
xLaurelX Isn't it that most gay people want to get married because they can get like... tax benefits or something, combined insurance...?
From what I understand gay marrige is really just about money.
I'd say it's definitely a benefit and a concern especially with any homosexual person that has children.
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:23 pm
Forgive me. I havn't read the whole thing, but of what I have read, I can answer some. I'm also sorry if some of this has been previously stated.
I don't use the Leviticus quote when talking about how homosexuality is wrong. DO NOT MISUNDERSTAND ME: I do not hate homosexuals, nor would I avoid making friends with someone who is one. I am not homophobic, I just think that, as smoking is wrong, so is homosexuality. It's like lying. It's just a sin. I'm not against the person, just against the act. That being said, this is my verse from the Bible...
"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
-1 Corinthians 6:8-10
I think that's pretty black and white.
Aside from that, all I've got to say is, from what I've read and what I'm interpreting, most of that is just how you feel about Christianity and the Bible in general, using the topic of homosexuality as an example. We already know that a lot of people who claim to be Christians actually aren't at heart--most really are hypocrites. Don't judge all by those who are like this. We do believe that everything in the Bible is true, and we have our own reasons for believing this. The Bible clearly states homosexuality is wrong (as I've just pointed out) and thus anyone who believes in the Bible must believe that, too. There's nothing more to that. However, why people hate homosexuals I can never understand. It's like hating me because I have a swearing problem: that's just stupid. It's a sin, we all sin, why do they treat them so differently? That I don't understand.
Tear up my argument all you want. But please don't make this another religious debate thread asking how people know the Bible is true.
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:56 pm
The issue is not that homosexuality is wrong or right; the issue is that the bible is dumb, and the people who follow it are irrational.
By the way I'm against homosexual marriage. I'm against all marriage.
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:28 pm
I like many of your points, I am simply pointing out a few parts that I think are weak. And I support gay marriage. Quote:
Why should it be right to oppress a whole people just because you find what they do in the privacy of their home wrong?
That's not a very good arguement. I understand what you mean, but there are a lot of things people could be doing in their own private homes that should be oppressed. It needs to be stated differently. Quote: Also, if you look at the times back then you could say that people had a population problem couldn't you? There weren't that many people and people were always going off to war or dying and things like that. It would seem like they would make something like that because there was a population problem. So, doing anything other than making babies would be an abomination because your society of people could basically just cease to exist because you don't have anymore people. In that case, would it not seem more appropriate to condemn homosexuality? In modern times, we almost have a population problem of having too many people. Doesn't it seem inappropriate to condemn homosexuality now because population really isn't a problem? *points to bold* Sorry, I hate being a spelling nazi, but you had the wrong word there. I don't really know if people were concerned with populating the earth to stop themselves from going extinct. I would need some sources to find this arguement valid, because I think it was more likely that people had many children because many died. Quote: People are saying that the divorce rate is going to go up immensely because homosexuals marry. I don't see how it's going to go up immensely, I don't think it's right for someone to infer something like that especially someone that doesn't even know statistics like that. Secondly, I think it's only common sense that the divorce rate is going to go up when homosexuals are allowed to marry. More people would be allowed to marry and in turn more people would be allowed to get divorced. It's kind of like, "No duh the divorce rate is going to go up." And, even if it were to go up I don't see how it's going to be so dramatic that we can't let people marry. Seems to me that the divorce rate of heterosexuals would be a lot higher than the divorce rate of homosexuals; it's even been said that they stay together longer. The number of people who got divorced might increase, but I doubt the rate of divorce would go up. I disagree that homosexuals would have a lower divorce rate, seeing how I am sure they would be just as prone to arguements/cheating/other stressors as any heterosexual couple. Quote: Then, there was another inference that if you let homosexuals marry you're going to have to let people marry animals. This seems to be propaganda made by a certain group because that's absolutely impetuous. Just because homosexuals marry doesn't mean you have to allow people to marry animals?that is a huge difference. First of all, homosexual marriage would involve person to person commitment. If you were to legalize animal marriage it would have to involve person to animal commitment. That's a huge difference because humans and animals differ greatly. There would be communication problems and there would be consent problems. How would you know the animal would want to consent? That issue is widely different and not many people at all desire to marry or be with an animal in that way. I know there are some people out there but not many people would want to do that at all. To say this, is really just inappropriate and unneeded. I also agree with this point. However, I have to bring something up because my friend mentioned it. Would you have a rule stating: "2 consenting adults", but also have a clause about incest (which could be 2 consenting adults)? Quote: They also say that homosexuals are going to be bad parents and they shouldn't be able to raise a child. First of all, that's an inference, and to say something like that seems like you haven't really reviewed it all that much. I don't really see how they would be bad parents and it seems like they would be better parents than a lot of heterosexual people. A lot of heterosexual people seem to abuse, rape, molest, torture, and do so many other wrong things to their kids. Neglect seems to come in mind too. Unacceptance seems to be another thing. Seems to me like the homosexual people wouldn't do any of that, sure they're not perfect, but it seems like it would happen a lot less with homosexuals than it would with heterosexuals. I don't know though because I can't infer anything. It seems like they would be a lot better parents though. So, maybe you're just jealous because of that? I agree that homosexuals are just as good of parents (heh, we just had a lecture on this today in human sexuality class). However, I disagree that homosexuals would have a lower incidence of abuse/neglect/etc. I would argue that it would be about the same, seeing how they are no different from heterosexuals other than sexual orientation. Quote: With that brings the idea of how people are homosexual. There is a lot of debate going around and you have the people saying it's a deformity and things like that. However, the two central sides are the side of choice and the side that you were born with it. I really don't like the idea of splitting it into two sides. It's just like your basic psych question of "nature vs. nurture", and I think a lot of people consider it a combo of both. Personally, I think it is partly genetic, partly choice. In identical twins, when one is gay there is a higher chance of the other twin being gay too, but it is only about a 50% chance, not 100%. 100% would infer that it is completely genetic. I think this infers partially genetic. Also, in my class today my teacher mentioned a study where a group of homosexual people were asked how they came to their current orientation. Some said they were born feeling that way, some said it was due to trauma, some said it was purely a choice. If you want, I can email my teacher and get more specific info on the study. Your arguement on hermaphrodites is poor. There is an actual, biological deviation that can be clearly seen with a hermaphrodite. Studies are being done on homosexuality, and while there are some correlations to biological differences, these are not clear and have not yet been proven. I think it would be better to compare homosexuality to being transgendered (being born in the "wrong" sex body) if you want to make your arguement. In each case, there may be some biological correlations, but it is not as clear cut as having both a p***s and v****a. (Of course this would also require the belief that being transgendered is something you are born with and not a choice). Quote: It just baffles and disgusts me to think that our society can be so unaccepting even in the year 2005. All societies are unaccepting. Sadly it seems to be a part of human nature. And I tried to get the limegreen color, but my compy hates me.
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:22 pm
I'm finding more and more that as more adults begin to accepct homosexuality, bisexuality seems to become worse off.
Greed seems to come to words more often than not.
It is almost as if homosexuality is fine, because you can pretend the people of such sexuality are not like you, however with bisexuality, they are included in your sect of our nice little species.
Just my thoughts.
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Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:25 pm
Pauperes Spiritu Forgive me. I havn't read the whole thing, but of what I have read, I can answer some. I'm also sorry if some of this has been previously stated.
I don't use the Leviticus quote when talking about how homosexuality is wrong. DO NOT MISUNDERSTAND ME: I do not hate homosexuals, nor would I avoid making friends with someone who is one. I am not homophobic, I just think that, as smoking is wrong, so is homosexuality. It's like lying. It's just a sin. I'm not against the person, just against the act. That being said, this is my verse from the Bible...
"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
-1 Corinthians 6:8-10
I think that's pretty black and white.
Aside from that, all I've got to say is, from what I've read and what I'm interpreting, most of that is just how you feel about Christianity and the Bible in general, using the topic of homosexuality as an example. We already know that a lot of people who claim to be Christians actually aren't at heart--most really are hypocrites. Don't judge all by those who are like this. We do believe that everything in the Bible is true, and we have our own reasons for believing this. The Bible clearly states homosexuality is wrong (as I've just pointed out) and thus anyone who believes in the Bible must believe that, too. There's nothing more to that. However, why people hate homosexuals I can never understand. It's like hating me because I have a swearing problem: that's just stupid. It's a sin, we all sin, why do they treat them so differently? That I don't understand.
Tear up my argument all you want. But please don't make this another religious debate thread asking how people know the Bible is true. Sorry to take a more aggressive tone with this converstaion, but the bible also happens to say that the number 'pi', is three. Not three point one four, etc, just three. A more up-to-date reference should be used for both. 3nodding
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