Random thought that popped into my head...

[Act of Random Kindness]

What happens to aborted babies? I mean, they technically haven't sinned yet, but they also never repented either. (or maybe they did in their own embryonic way, heck if I know)

So, any ideas or theories?  

[No place like 127 0 0 1]

i heard they dont go straight to heaven. They go to purgatory or something..because of their future sins...And theyre aware if the mother is planning to abort, so they become extremely worried and afraid...something like that- i was told...  

[Counterbalance]

We are all born with the effects of the "original sin" so by that merit there is no "innocent" baby. It is a barrier that keeps us from relating to God until we have undergone the regeneration that comes through salvation, but Biblically there is no indication that we have to answer for Adam's sin as well as our own.

The Bible says that we are to be judged by the deeds committed "in the body" (2Cor 5:10), or one's we have committed by choice. A baby or small child, (until they have reached an age at which they can distinguish for themselves what is right and wrong) hasn't yet sinned in the body. Deuteronomy 1:39 shows an example of God exempting children from judgement because they have no knowledge of good and evil.

I believe the same thing can be said for aborted babies or children that die. God's grace is sufficient and He accepts them into heaven. 3nodding  

[Crimson Raccoon]

Whether or not aborted babies go to heaven is somewhat the same issue as whether or not any infant or very young child goes to heaven. It's pretty much just as difficult to conceive of an infant explicity committing a sin as it is to think of an unborn baby doing so. And yet, they are human, and Romans 5 teaches that death and sin have come to all humans because of their father Adam. Also, in Psalm 51:5 David writes, "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." So even unborn children are sinful, in some form, and are guilty before God. Even if they have not necessarily explicitly commited a sin by our usual definition, they are still under the same curse of the Fall of Man as all the world is; and if they are to go to heaven, then they therefore do need Jesus Christ as their savior to be saved from eternal separation from God.

Of course, a baby is not capable of understanding the Bible's teachings, and they are not capable of understanding what "saving faith" is. But then again, who is? Any person, whether an unborn baby or a 40-year old with a PhD, needs the Holy Spirit to work in their hearts before they can understand and know salvation. Salvation is the work of God, and he is just as capable as saving an infant as he is any other person. In Luke 1:15, we read that John was "filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb." Clearly, God can work in infants.

So yes, babies need Jesus to be their Savior if they are to go to heaven; and yes, God is capable of bringing them that salvation, even if they don't fully understand it. We are all infants in our understanding anyway, compared to God. And we are all just as incapable of saving ourselves as an infant is incapable of saving him or herself. It's humbling to think about; we as Christians may tend to pride ourselves on how much we know or understand about the Bible or God; but really we only understand as much as God has revealed to us, not because of any special intellect or capability of our own. We are all like infants in God's eyes, in a way.


Whether none, some, or all aborted babies are saved, is really impossible for us to say. God could save all the babies who are aborted, just like he could save every single human on earth. I would assume that only some aborted babies are saved, since it matches with the way God saves people on earth generally. But that's nothing more than an assumption, we can't know for sure.

The Bible seems to give the general impression that a young child's salvation is partially dependant upon the parent's faith. God's covenant, after all, was a covenant with families, not with individuals; which is why circumcision was used as the sign of that covenant: it was, in part, about parents upholding that covenant for their children, even imposing it onto them until they came of age to choose for themselves. The Bible even has a specific example of an infant dying, one of King David's children, and the passage does imply that this child went to heaven. This is in 2 Samuel chapter 12. From this passage, and the way God's covenant is generally described to work, many people including myself have faith that any Christian family who loses an infant in death can have confidence and comfort that their child is in heaven. I believe the Bible gives Christian parents this assurance. However, that same assurance does not apply for someone who aborts their child, of course; not that such a parent would even care.

Certainly, prayer for the salvation of children who are aborted would be a valuable thing for us as Christians to do.  

[Neferet -House of Night-]

Isn't Original Sin the same as the Unforgivable sin? So wouldn't that mean humans are screwed from the beginning and we don't go to heaven?

According to John Locke we are born with Tabula Rasa or clean slate. Which means we are born wholly good. I believe in Tabula Rasa because, babies don't know nor can they comprehend what sin is, much like they can't what a rattler does before it picks it up. Their brains are still in development. So what we may think they're doing is wrong (like taking someone else's rattler), they don't know if it's right or wrong, they just know the rattler looks shiny and it makes noise. Saying that they're going to hell for taking that rattler can damage that child's development. (Part of the reason why I am against indoctrinating children at a very young age.)

Aborted babies also don't know what sin is.

Look at the pagans that died before Christ, do they go to hell, or are they free from that because they didn't know of Christ? It's something to think about. :3  

[Counterbalance]

The original sin was Adam and Eve deciding to disobey God. The only unforgivable sin as far as I can find Biblically is "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" which as I understand it is making a decision to deny Christ.

So as far as sins actually committed, babies do have a 'clean slate' until the age at which they are able to make a decision for themselves. An age of accountability as it were, which I think varies between people. As for the pre-Christ pagans... I haven't the faintest idea. I like to think that God gives grace to people who have never had the chance to choose.  

[Crimson Raccoon]

The concept of a "blank slate" is not Biblical. Remember the verse I mentioned in my last post, from David in Psalm 51: "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." This is just one place in the Bible that shows people are born sinful; there are several other passages too, but this one is probably the most clear. On the other hand, there's not a single verse I know of that shows people are born with a "clean slate."

The "age of accountability" is a Biblical concept, but it is not based on a clean slate. Children do not know right and wrong the same way adults do. This doesn't relieve them of their guilt, it clearly doesn't mean they're sinless, but if their parents are Christian then it does relieve the child of some responsibility. Until the age of accountability, it is the responsibility of the parent to protect the child from sinning and teach them the right way to live, even enforcing them to live correctly if needed and punishing them when they disobey. This is common sense, all parents do this, even if they aren't Christian. The Christian concept is simply that children can still go to heaven if they die, even if they don't understand the doctrines of salvation, as long as their parents are devoted to Christ and have been raising their children as God instructs them to, teaching them right and wrong and about Jesus.

A 6-year old child has not likely reached the age of accountability, and yet we can clearly see that 6-year-olds can sin. So this shows that, even though Christian children aren't necessarily held responsibile in the same way adults are, nonetheless they are still sinners and because of that they still need Jesus to save them. As I said in my last post, the covenant God made with his people was with families, not just with individuals, and God gives blessings and grace to the children of Believers even before the children understand the things in the Bible.

For the concern Rai brought up: "What we may think they're doing is wrong (like taking someone else's rattler), they don't know if it's right or wrong, they just know the rattler looks shiny and it makes noise. Saying that they're going to hell for taking that rattler can damage that child's development."
I don't know of any Christian parent that tells their child they're going to hell because the stole a rattle. Most Christian parents tell their kids that Jesus loves them, teaching them songs like "Jesus loves me, this I know," and things like that. The vast majority of Christian parents don't berate little kids with threats of hell. Maybe someone does, but they're wrong to do that, and it's ridiculous. But I've been in a lot of churches and never seen kids handled that way.

Of course a child doesn't understand right from wrong, which is why the Bible has so much emphasis on parents teaching their children (indoctrinating them, we could say). All parents indoctrinate their children. The question is, are we going to indoctrinate them with what God tells us to, or indoctrinate them with what our society today tells us to?  

[Neferet -House of Night-]

I know a few Christians that will look at a child and say that child is evil and is capable of murdering someone or lying. One of them is a proud parent. Which is why I (rather unconsciously) brought up the rattler example.  

[Crimson Raccoon]

Crimson Raccoon

For the concern Rai brought up: "What we may think they're doing is wrong (like taking someone else's rattler), they don't know if it's right or wrong, they just know the rattler looks shiny and it makes noise. Saying that they're going to hell for taking that rattler can damage that child's development."
I don't know of any Christian parent that tells their child they're going to hell because the stole a rattle. Most Christian parents tell their kids that Jesus loves them, teaching them songs like "Jesus loves me, this I know," and things like that. The vast majority of Christian parents don't berate little kids with threats of hell. Maybe someone does, but they're wrong to do that, and it's ridiculous. But I've been in a lot of churches and never seen kids handled that way.

-xXLady RaiXx-

I know a few Christians that will look at a child and say that child is evil and is capable of murdering someone or lying. One of them is a proud parent. Which is why I (rather unconsciously) brought up the rattler example.

Well, a Christian parent saying a child is evil and capable of doing evil things, is not the same as that parent saying the child is going to hell.

A child is sinful, so the Bible teaches. Everyone is sinful, and a child is no different. An infant is not physically capable of murdering or lying. But it is within their nature to murder and lie, and they have the potential to do it, so it's not terribly inaccurate to say they are capable of doing it. It's just a difference of semantics. An infant can't lie because they can't speak; but as soon as any child learns to speak, it doesn't take long before they tell a lie. Clearly, it was in their nature the whole time.

But good Christian parents wouldn't believe their child is necessarily going to hell because of it, because their child is certainly not any worse of a sinner than they are. Christians should be defined by their faith in Christ's salvation. That's why they can be a proud parent, because even though their child is sinful, they can raise him or her to know Jesus and become a loving person by his grace. If they really thought their child was going to hell, it would certainly be difficult to be a proud parent. They have faith in God's salvation.  

[iy8970970607]

*shudders*


I'm sorry, but are alot of you all saying your god is so evil, babies go to hell?


That's just messed up, and compeltely evil!  

[Xahmen]

Aborted babies go directly to various parlor spas, where the are ground and applied to Joane Rivers's face.

In all seriousness, why would you care?
You aren't one.

Look out for number one, ******** everybody else.  

[Act of Random Kindness]

Zahwomen

Aborted babies go directly to various parlor spas, where the are ground and applied to Joane Rivers's face.

In all seriousness, why would you care?
You aren't one.

Look out for number one, ******** everybody else.

I care for one, because I'm curious about people's thoughts on the topic. My first post did say "Any ideas or theories (on this topic)"
Where ever they supposedly go, I wanna know why people think that. It's just how I think, can't really expand much else on it.

Secondly, if they go to hell, I wanna know if there's someway I can help stop that. Last time I checked, there weren't any verses in the bible directly explaining how to help aborted babies get into heaven. I thought maybe someone else would have a bit more insight into the issue and have an idea, theory, revelation,. someting I don't have yet.

So yeah, that's why I care.  

[Act of Random Kindness]

Ephemeral Lazarus

*shudders*


I'm sorry, but are alot of you all saying your god is so evil, babies go to hell?


That's just messed up, and compeltely evil!

Yes, it is messed up and completely evil, but it's only a theory still. As far as I know no one really knows for sure.

But more importantly, if you think it's so evil, what are you gonna do to help stop it? If people stopped aborting their children because they're an "inconvenience" my so-called "evil god" wouldn't hafta make this decision in the first place because the babies could make their own.  

[Crimson Raccoon]

Ephemeral Lazarus

*shudders*


I'm sorry, but are alot of you all saying your god is so evil, babies go to hell?


That's just messed up, and compeltely evil!

No one here was saying that all babies go to hell, so I don't know what your fuss is about. Read what we actually wrote, and you'll see that all the people who answered the question all said that God is capable of saving babies.

God is evil? I just think it's more evil that parents would kill their babies. But if you don't believe unborn babies have souls, then you don't believe they could go to hell, so you really have nothing to accuse God of being evil about.

If unborn babies do have souls, then its the parents that are doing something horrible, not God, if they get aborted. If they don't have souls, then God's not doing anything to them, so you can't blame him for being evil. You can't have it both ways.


Act of Random Kindness, the best thing we can do to help babies that are being aborted, is to pray for them. God asks us in the Bible to pray for innocent victims, and certainly to pray for those who need salvation. He is the only one who can save them, and he listens to the prayers we bring to him. This subject could be something that you devote yourself to in prayer, if you are particularly motivated and concerned about it. It would definitely be worthwhile.  

[Neferet -House of Night-]

Actually it's evil that people are abandoning their babies in trash cans, or abusing them sexually, physically, psychologically, mentally, or emotionally.

Remember, Death is a mere escape.