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 Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:18 am
Faith is defined in Webster's as: Webster's faith - noun 1. a: allegiance to duty or a person, b: (1): fidelity to one's promises (2): sincerity of intentions 2. a: (1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b: (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2): complete trust 3. something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially, a system of religious beliefs Dictionary.com defines faith as: Dictionary.com faith - noun 1. confidence or trust in a person or thing 2. belief that is not based on proof 3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion 4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc. 5. a system of religious belief 6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc. 7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc. 8. Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved. Definition of faith from Encyclopedia Brittanica: Encyclopedia Brittanica inner attitude, conviction, or trust relating man to a supreme God or ultimate salvation. In religious traditions stressing divine grace, it is the inner certainty or attitude of love granted by God himself. In Christian theology, faith is the divinely inspired human response to God’s historical revelation through Jesus Christ and, consequently, is of crucial significance. Many theists (Christians especially) that I have encountered have defined faith as "the evidence of things not seen." They (theists) also tend to argue, usually when I bring up the subjects of empiricism, evidence, and tangibility that is all based on faith, and not evidence.
I propose that this leads to a very clear conclusion. Based on the definitions given, I can say that faith is nothing more than wishful thinking or hoping something you believe in, even though you have no evidence it is, is true. Faith spawns irrationality, stupidity, and in the worst cases (which surprisingly, are not rare in the least) willful ignorance.
Faith seems like a silly concept for a world that is supposed to be progressing towards the gaining of more knowledge. But I want to know what you all think.
Questions for discussion:
What is faith?
Is faith necessary/useless/neither?
What do you personally place faith in?
What exactly does having faith accomplish?
(More questions will come later as the discussion grows.)
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:29 am
Faith is needed in the life of a Christian. But it's not where it starts.
The basis for Christianity is that about 2000 years ago there lived a man in Palestine who preached about God's kingdom and about being the Saviour or humanity, who was crucified, then resurrected and after his resurrection has been continuing being in some kind of contact with his believers.
Now we cannot travel back in time to see with our own eyes how it all was then. But we can at least try to find out more, by learning about testimonies about these events from the New testament and from writings by contemporary historians. And if we find the information acceptable then faith can come as act of will, as a decision to take a personal stance and become a true follower of Christ.
This is basically it... I don't have time to write more right now but I want to emphasis that faith can't just arise out of nothing in void. There must be some real basis for it. Otherwise anyone can just make up a religion and want people to follow it because "you just need faith." But such a faith would be of no use to the followers.
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:00 pm
Luz Melian Faith is needed in the life of a Christian. But it's not where it starts. The basis for Christianity is that about 2000 years ago there lived a man in Palestine who preached about God's kingdom and about being the Saviour or humanity, who was crucified, then resurrected and after his resurrection has been continuing being in some kind of contact with his believers. Now we cannot travel back in time to see with our own eyes how it all was then. But we can at least try to find out more, by learning about testimonies about these events from the New testament and from writings by contemporary historians. And if we find the information acceptable then faith can come as act of will, as a decision to take a personal stance and become a true follower of Christ. This is basically it... I don't have time to write more right now but I want to emphasis that faith can't just arise out of nothing in void. There must be some real basis for it. Otherwise anyone can just make up a religion and want people to follow it because "you just need faith." But such a faith would be of no use to the followers. See: Scientology
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Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 1:01 pm
Kimihiro_Watanuki Luz Melian Faith is needed in the life of a Christian. But it's not where it starts. The basis for Christianity is that about 2000 years ago there lived a man in Palestine who preached about God's kingdom and about being the Saviour or humanity, who was crucified, then resurrected and after his resurrection has been continuing being in some kind of contact with his believers. Now we cannot travel back in time to see with our own eyes how it all was then. But we can at least try to find out more, by learning about testimonies about these events from the New testament and from writings by contemporary historians. And if we find the information acceptable then faith can come as act of will, as a decision to take a personal stance and become a true follower of Christ. This is basically it... I don't have time to write more right now but I want to emphasis that faith can't just arise out of nothing in void. There must be some real basis for it. Otherwise anyone can just make up a religion and want people to follow it because "you just need faith." But such a faith would be of no use to the followers. See: Scientology D
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Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 1:13 pm
Okay, here's my 2 cents.
First of all, try reading a book called "The Case For Christ." A very compelling argument in my opinion, and all unearthed by an atheist at that. That's all I'm gonna say on this issue because...
I really just wanted to say that I think faith is neccesary for the human race. If we didn't have that irrationality, we'd just turn into organic robots essentially. No one would dream of being president, astronauts, olympians; the odds aren't good that you'll make it, so why not use your time more efficiently?
Also as a side note, How can faith be neither neccesary or useless. If it's neither, then it's just a convenience really, and since when has faith been convenient for anyone?
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Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:37 pm
Act of Random Kindness Okay, here's my 2 cents. First of all, try reading a book called "The Case For Christ." A very compelling argument in my opinion, and all unearthed by an atheist at that. That's all I'm gonna say on this issue because... I've read the book. I've dissected it. It's basically written in the same manner all theologians write books. They start with the assumption they are going to be right no matter what anyone says anyway. "The Case For Christ" doesn't start out on the objective foot with "Maybe Jesus exists or doesn't exist. Let's put it to the test." It starts with "Jesus definitely exist, but here's some 'evidence' for all those people whining about it." Act of Random Kindness I really just wanted to say that I think faith is neccesary for the human race. And yet faith, especially of the religious kind, has caused more problems, on a rather grand scale, than any one mind can comprehend. Act of Random Kindness If we didn't have that irrationality, we'd just turn into organic robots essentially. And that's a bad thing? Imagine a world where the s**t we do actually makes sense for a change. Act of Random Kindness No one would dream of being president, astronauts, olympians; the odds aren't good that you'll make it, so why not use your time more efficiently? Exactly. That is the question. Why don't people use their time more effectively? Because of the silly notion of faith and hope that instilled in us as early as childhood with the famous phrase "You can be anything you want to be." It's a rather ridiculous idea. Act of Random Kindness Also as a side note, How can faith be neither neccesary or useless. If it's neither, then it's just a convenience really, and since when has faith been convenient for anyone? Since when has faith been convenient? Well, in my personal life, never. In fact, having faith has more of a detriment to me than anything, driving me into episodes of extreme depression, anxiety, and hopelessness.
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Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:09 am
Kimihiro_Watanuki Questions for discussion: What is faith? Is faith necessary/useless/neither? What do you personally place faith in? What exactly does having faith accomplish? (More questions will come later as the discussion grows.) 1) You defined it already why ask such a silly question? 2) By the definitions you gave it would be all those things. 3) To me faith is necessary, useless, and neither. 4) I see it as giving a purpose whether that purpose is misguided or not.
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Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:51 am
rmcdra 1) You defined it already why ask such a silly question? 2) By the definitions you gave it would be all those things. 3) To me faith is necessary, useless, and neither. 4) I see it as giving a purpose whether that purpose is misguided or not. 1.) Common sense is truly dead. Yes I already defined faith but I did so on my own terms. I wanted to know what people's personal definitions of faith are. 2. How so? 3. Care to elaborate? 4. Again. Do you care to elaborate on the concept?
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Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:08 pm
Kimihiro_Watanuki rmcdra 1) You defined it already why ask such a silly question? 2) By the definitions you gave it would be all those things. 3) To me faith is necessary, useless, and neither. 4) I see it as giving a purpose whether that purpose is misguided or not. 1.) Common sense is truly dead. Yes I already defined faith but I did so on my own terms. I wanted to know what people's personal definitions of faith are. 2. How so? 3. Care to elaborate? 4. Again. Do you care to elaborate on the concept? 1) Well your definitions work and are sufficient. Since I am a heretic, my personal definition of faith is going to more of a trust that should be tested rather than the blind faith that my fellow orthodox believers believe in. 2) Well faith is necessary because being able to trust something or someone is pretty important. Faith is useless because when trust be misplaced it leads to abuse or insanity. I was mistaken on the neither comment. Night shift has been wearing on me. 3) I think 2) explains my personal views too. 4) Being able to trust someone or something, empirically or experientially, provides a purpose because it's kinda like following a contract. It means that if I hold up my end of a contract the other end of the contract should be upheld. Because I trust that the other person or thing will hold there end of the bargain, whether they do or don't, I've declared something about myself and have given myself a purpose. Then again, I'm the type of person that if I'm not doing something, getting meaning out of something, or learning something new then I get pretty antsy or bored.
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