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 Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:06 am
One argument that constantly rears it's head in theistic debates is that God is outside of time and space. This argument is mainly used by Christians when someone is trying to apply a characteristic, particularly a negative one, to God. (And yet they get to make any positive connotation about God they want. ********' hypocrites.)
My question to them is "How do you know?" Especially if you argue that God is beyond human comprehension, how do we know any of God's characteristics, let alone if God exists outside of time and space?
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Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:23 am
No one knows where God exists. Aside from the Holy Spirit being with you.
Anyways, assuming this from a Christian standpoint, we know of God's characteristics due to His word, the Bible. We know He is all loving, powerful, etc.
As for whether or not God exists outside of time and space, I really don't think there is a problem if he did or didn't. Personally, I do think he is outside of time and space because... Well, if God made the Universe, then he had to have existed somewhere where the Universe wasn't, and that is... well, nothingness. And time and space is technically a law that is within our universe, so... Yeah.
Did that make sense? o-0
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Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:49 pm
mazuac No one knows where God exists. Aside from the Holy Spirit being with you. No one can even know if the Holy Spirit exists. It's nothing but belief and assumption. mazuac Anyways, assuming this from a Christian standpoint, we know of God's characteristics due to His word, the Bible. We know He is all loving, powerful, etc. And what exactly makes his "word" valid on the subject? Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that God does exist. What then, makes a single book more valid than another other idea concerning God's properties?
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Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:07 pm
My argument was assuming that what Christianity teaches is true, thus, for the sake of the argument, the Holy Spirit exists.
Anyways, how can we know? Well, you really can't. When you become a Christian, the Holy Spirit comes within you (or something like that, I can't remember the exact verse in the Bible that speaks of this. I'll look it up a bit later :]).
Well, I suppose historicity, teachings, zero to little contradictions on minor subject (i.e.- there were 100 people, there were 10 people), and the teachings. :]
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Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:30 pm
I don't ever say that God exists outside of time and space. I think our ideas of time and space are really narrow (based upon our only knowledge of time being that of the movement of the earth around the sun, I believe certain older civilizations had more complex understandings associated with the galaxy and stars but I digress) but I believe that God, being the kind of Being that He would have to be, author of time and space, would function inside His own set limitations. But I believe He would most undoubtedly know more about time and space than we presently do.
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:25 am
Kimihiro_Watanuki mazuac No one knows where God exists. Aside from the Holy Spirit being with you. No one can even know if the Holy Spirit exists. It's nothing but belief and assumption. mazuac Anyways, assuming this from a Christian standpoint, we know of God's characteristics due to His word, the Bible. We know He is all loving, powerful, etc. And what exactly makes his "word" valid on the subject? Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that God does exist. What then, makes a single book more valid than another other idea concerning God's properties? It's called Faith kimihiro faith- belief that is not based on proof It is all i've had to sustain me at times, and it has bore me through many a trial. I KNOW the Lord exists. He has given moments of clarity when i knew EXACTLY what i was supposed to do.
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:04 am
Exark Kimihiro_Watanuki mazuac No one knows where God exists. Aside from the Holy Spirit being with you. No one can even know if the Holy Spirit exists. It's nothing but belief and assumption. mazuac Anyways, assuming this from a Christian standpoint, we know of God's characteristics due to His word, the Bible. We know He is all loving, powerful, etc. And what exactly makes his "word" valid on the subject? Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that God does exist. What then, makes a single book more valid than another other idea concerning God's properties? It's called Faith kimihiro faith- belief that is not based on proof It is all i've had to sustain me at times, and it has bore me through many a trial. I KNOW the Lord exists. He has given moments of clarity when i knew EXACTLY what i was supposed to do. Same. :] I would say, though, that Christianity isn't just faith. There are also facts and proofs for it. ^^
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:35 am
mazuac Exark Kimihiro_Watanuki mazuac No one knows where God exists. Aside from the Holy Spirit being with you. No one can even know if the Holy Spirit exists. It's nothing but belief and assumption. mazuac Anyways, assuming this from a Christian standpoint, we know of God's characteristics due to His word, the Bible. We know He is all loving, powerful, etc. And what exactly makes his "word" valid on the subject? Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that God does exist. What then, makes a single book more valid than another other idea concerning God's properties? It's called Faith kimihiro faith- belief that is not based on proof It is all i've had to sustain me at times, and it has bore me through many a trial. I KNOW the Lord exists. He has given moments of clarity when i knew EXACTLY what i was supposed to do. Same. :] I would say, though, that Christianity isn't just faith. There are also facts and proofs for it. ^^ Yes, the faith and the belief system can't just be constructed from nothing; we need a real basis to build our faith on, otherwise why believe at all? For me the basis and reason are the testimonials of the New testament and particularly the gospels. Without Jesus, most of ideas about God would be mere human speculation, but Jesus was special because he claimed he knew God perfectly, and even more than that, that he was God's Son and the awaited Messiah. And eventually his disciples could see the ultimate proof of these claims, when they could see him after his resurrection. So far nothing has convinced me that we have valid reasons to believe that what they preached and wrote about Jesus was a lie.
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:28 pm
Exark Kimihiro_Watanuki mazuac No one knows where God exists. Aside from the Holy Spirit being with you. No one can even know if the Holy Spirit exists. It's nothing but belief and assumption. mazuac Anyways, assuming this from a Christian standpoint, we know of God's characteristics due to His word, the Bible. We know He is all loving, powerful, etc. And what exactly makes his "word" valid on the subject? Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that God does exist. What then, makes a single book more valid than another other idea concerning God's properties? It's called Faith kimihiro faith- belief that is not based on proof It is all i've had to sustain me at times, and it has bore me through many a trial. I KNOW the Lord exists. He has given moments of clarity when i knew EXACTLY what i was supposed to do. You have already read my thesis on faith. Faith is not the same thing as knowledge. To know something is real, you must have knowledge it is. To have knowledge it is real, you must have evidence of it. There is no current evidence that has passed a peer review process for "the Lord." My bet is these "trials" are everyday hardships and these "moments of clarity" were brought on through your own reasoning skills rather than some divine epiphany. However, you can't explain either and thus, chalk it up to the one god you personally choose to believe in. What sustains me in times of hardships? The will to keep living. Where does that will come from? Probably my natural instinct for self preservation. This is not really an argument of whether or not God exists. It is an argument assuming that God does exist, but asking the question "Does God exist outside of time and space, and if so, how do we know?"
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Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:55 pm
Okay, here's my attempt I guess. Assuming that God exists, I'd hafta say he lives outside of time and space. The logic behind this is that, assuming that he is the Almighty God, he'd be omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, etc. Currently, the Big Bang Theory is still regarded as the most feasable theory to explain the beginings of the universe, so the assumption that the universe is expanding is valid. (open the file, page 6)Therefore, if God is bounded by space, he'd also have to be bounded by the current boundaries of our universe, which would only make him omnipresent in a subjective sense, not an absolute one. Also, as an extension of this, I'm assuming he'd not be bounded by time either, as space and time are are inextricably bound together. So uh, yeah, someone can start disagreeing now.
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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:04 pm
Act of Random Kindness Okay, here's my attempt I guess. Assuming that God exists, I'd hafta say he lives outside of time and space. The logic behind this is that, assuming that he is the Almighty God, he'd be omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, etc. Currently, the Big Bang Theory is still regarded as the most feasable theory to explain the beginings of the universe, so the assumption that the universe is expanding is valid. (open the file, page 6)Therefore, if God is bounded by space, he'd also have to be bounded by the current boundaries of our universe, which would only make him omnipresent in a subjective sense, not an absolute one. Also, as an extension of this, I'm assuming he'd not be bounded by time either, as space and time are are inextricably bound together. So uh, yeah, someone can start disagreeing now. wow, over 2 weeks without a refutation. That's gotta be some sort of record, lol. But seriosuly, someone can start disagreeing now. I don't expect this to be the end of the discussion, there's gotta be more input on a subject like this.
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Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:36 am
I addressed the basis for my belief in this in another thread, but since I'm a lazy Mexican, I'll just explain it again!
God created everything. Space, matter, light, temperature, gravity, physics and the most important thing: Time.
Since God created everything, He would be outside of His creation, although He does visit us via the Holy Spirit. That's just like you creating a story. The laws in that story don't apply to you.
Back to the point: God is outside of time because He created it. Time doesn't even apply to Him. How awesome is that?
Here's the scripture to back this theory :
2 Peter 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
This implies that time does not apply to God. If God is not subject to the horrible truth that is time, then He must be somewhere time does not exist. Where does time not exist? (lol don't be a sart aleck and say death ha ha). Outside of the universe, which is nothingness.
There Random. I disagreed. Are you happy? Lol
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Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:01 pm
Imitation Stradivarius I addressed the basis for my belief in this in another thread, but since I'm a lazy Mexican, I'll just explain it again! God created everything. Space, matter, light, temperature, gravity, physics and the most important thing: Time. Since God created everything, He would be outside of His creation, although He does visit us via the Holy Spirit. That's just like you creating a story. The laws in that story don't apply to you. Back to the point: God is outside of time because He created it. Time doesn't even apply to Him. How awesome is that? Here's the scripture to back this theory : 2 Peter 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. This implies that time does not apply to God. If God is not subject to the horrible truth that is time, then He must be somewhere time does not exist. Where does time not exist? (lol don't be a sart aleck and say death ha ha). Outside of the universe, which is nothingness. There Random. I disagreed. Are you happy? Lol You D-Bag. I wanted to be the lazy mexican of the guild... crying And I'm only kinda happy. You just gave a different proof for what I just said. Happy that it's a different idea smile , but sad that there's still no refutation. sad Where's Kimihiro? He's gotta have SOMETHING to say on this.....
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Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:14 pm
Act of Random Kindness Imitation Stradivarius I addressed the basis for my belief in this in another thread, but since I'm a lazy Mexican, I'll just explain it again! God created everything. Space, matter, light, temperature, gravity, physics and the most important thing: Time. Since God created everything, He would be outside of His creation, although He does visit us via the Holy Spirit. That's just like you creating a story. The laws in that story don't apply to you. Back to the point: God is outside of time because He created it. Time doesn't even apply to Him. How awesome is that? Here's the scripture to back this theory : 2 Peter 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. This implies that time does not apply to God. If God is not subject to the horrible truth that is time, then He must be somewhere time does not exist. Where does time not exist? (lol don't be a sart aleck and say death ha ha). Outside of the universe, which is nothingness. There Random. I disagreed. Are you happy? Lol You D-Bag. I wanted to be the lazy mexican of the guild... crying And I'm only kinda happy. You just gave a different proof for what I just said. Happy that it's a different idea smile , but sad that there's still no refutation. sad Where's Kimihiro? He's gotta have SOMETHING to say on this..... Oh. My bad....And we can totally share the title of lazy mexican. You can get it next week. mrgreen
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Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:59 am
So operating under the assumption that God has the power to create everything and did create everything, he'd also have to be outside of everything, but can simultaneously be inside of everything while being outside of everything, because he has to be a part of everything because he created it, but also outside of everything so he could create it.
Makes sense. xp
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