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 Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 8:05 am
"This is one of the rare issues I am torn on.
One side of this argument discusses the importance of a woman's control over her own body. A man's desire for a child shouldn't dictate whether a woman has to go through nine months of torture. A man can always spread his seed to another woman.
Another side is the argument for the man. Both the mother and the father have rights to their child. The mother doesn't have the right to take the child away from a potentially good father for any reason.
At this point I believe they should at least discuss the option. But if they still disagree, I don't know what I think. I think it's completely cruel when a woman kills a fetus without the man's permission. However, I also think it's cruel when the courts force a woman to have a baby she doesn't want for the father.
What do you believe?"
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 8:58 am
Yes. This is a difficult subject because it is the woman's body - as much as I hate that argument - so she should have the final say. But both partners should talk it out.
Imagine how hard it is for a man who wants a child to have to sit back and watch as his lover disregards his objections without even considering him. Especially if this man in question is pro-life, he'll see that as a death. It's a terrible thing.
As your second argument entails, the child is also the man's, therefore he should have a degree of say. It's hard to come to a consensus amongst the involved parties when both have their own strong viewpoints, but they need to at least try.
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 1:53 pm
Fathers should definitely have a say, but not a veto.
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 2:36 pm
This topic brought up another interesting abortion-related thought in my mind:
if a man belts a pregnant woman in the gut with a tire iron and she miscarries, it's murder, but if she instead chose to get an abortion, it's not.
It's an interesting double-standard.
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 2:37 pm
Fresnel This topic brought up another interesting abortion-related thought in my mind: if a man belts a pregnant woman in the gut with a tire iron and she miscarries, it's murder, but if she instead chose to get an abortion, it's not. It's an interesting double-standard. Isn't it strange how a human's worth is determined by how much it's wanted?
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 3:19 pm
Silver Screen Fresnel This topic brought up another interesting abortion-related thought in my mind: if a man belts a pregnant woman in the gut with a tire iron and she miscarries, it's murder, but if she instead chose to get an abortion, it's not. It's an interesting double-standard. Isn't it strange how a human's worth is determined by how much it's wanted? Now is the PERFECT opportunity for an emo joke.
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 3:38 pm
Fresnel Silver Screen Fresnel This topic brought up another interesting abortion-related thought in my mind: if a man belts a pregnant woman in the gut with a tire iron and she miscarries, it's murder, but if she instead chose to get an abortion, it's not. It's an interesting double-standard. Isn't it strange how a human's worth is determined by how much it's wanted? Now is the PERFECT opportunity for an emo joke. Would Linkin Park lyrics count as a joke?
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 3:59 pm
Silver Screen Fresnel Silver Screen Fresnel This topic brought up another interesting abortion-related thought in my mind: if a man belts a pregnant woman in the gut with a tire iron and she miscarries, it's murder, but if she instead chose to get an abortion, it's not. It's an interesting double-standard. Isn't it strange how a human's worth is determined by how much it's wanted? Now is the PERFECT opportunity for an emo joke. Would Linkin Park lyrics count as a joke? Do they ever count as anything else?
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 4:15 pm
Fresnel Silver Screen Fresnel Silver Screen Fresnel This topic brought up another interesting abortion-related thought in my mind: if a man belts a pregnant woman in the gut with a tire iron and she miscarries, it's murder, but if she instead chose to get an abortion, it's not. It's an interesting double-standard. Isn't it strange how a human's worth is determined by how much it's wanted? Now is the PERFECT opportunity for an emo joke. Would Linkin Park lyrics count as a joke? Do they ever count as anything else? I kinda like High Voltage...
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 5:03 pm
Fresnel This topic brought up another interesting abortion-related thought in my mind: if a man belts a pregnant woman in the gut with a tire iron and she miscarries, it's murder, but if she instead chose to get an abortion, it's not. It's an interesting double-standard. "Maybe because abortion is done by a professional, it isn't considered murder. Sort of like how some people do not consider euthanasia murder because it is done by a doctor in a professional setting with the permission of the patient. "
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 5:17 pm
MayIHelpYou22102 Fresnel This topic brought up another interesting abortion-related thought in my mind: if a man belts a pregnant woman in the gut with a tire iron and she miscarries, it's murder, but if she instead chose to get an abortion, it's not. It's an interesting double-standard. "Maybe because abortion is done by a professional, it isn't considered murder. Sort of like how some people do not consider euthanasia murder because it is done by a doctor in a professional setting with the permission of the patient. " If a guy gave his permission to a thug to beat his brains into the pavement with a lead pipe I wouldn't call it murder either. At least, assuming there's incontrovertible proof that said permission was given.
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 5:23 pm
Fresnel MayIHelpYou22102 Fresnel This topic brought up another interesting abortion-related thought in my mind: if a man belts a pregnant woman in the gut with a tire iron and she miscarries, it's murder, but if she instead chose to get an abortion, it's not. It's an interesting double-standard. "Maybe because abortion is done by a professional, it isn't considered murder. Sort of like how some people do not consider euthanasia murder because it is done by a doctor in a professional setting with the permission of the patient. " If a guy gave his permission to a thug to beat his brains into the pavement with a lead pipe I wouldn't call it murder either. At least, assuming there's incontrovertible proof that said permission was given. "In that case, it's assisted suicide mrgreen "
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 6:37 pm
He should have a decision of his own to make.
Instead of just hoping his pro-life girlfriend will change her mind, he should have the option of aborting his rights to the child.
It's ridiculous that a woman can get pregnant and then practically enslave the man, taking chunks of his income and demaniding his time for the large life period of eighteen years when the woman can walk out by going to an abortion clinic.
She should have to make her decision knowing the man can, for the period after conception until birth, has the right to abort as much as she does.
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 7:33 pm
MayIHelpYou22102 "This is one of the rare issues I am torn on.
One side of this argument discusses the importance of a woman's control over her own body. A man's desire for a child shouldn't dictate whether a woman has to go through nine months of torture. A man can always spread his seed to another woman. Not always. There are various possible reasons why he may not be able to. Quote: Another side is the argument for the man. Both the mother and the father have rights to their child. The mother doesn't have the right to take the child away from a potentially good father for any reason. Exactly. I've made it ABUNDANTLY clear that I will NEVER let myself date anyone who would dare destroy my child. I am personally pro-life, no matter how politically pro-choice, I may be. If I impregnate a woman, I expect her to carry to term, for me. Because I could never live with myself, having let a woman destroy my child. Quote: At this point I believe they should at least discuss the option. But if they still disagree, I don't know what I think. I think it's completely cruel when a woman kills a fetus without the man's permission. However, I also think it's cruel when the courts force a woman to have a baby she doesn't want for the father. She doesn't have to keep the baby, though. 9 months isn't all that long, really. Yes, it "feels" like eternity, at the time, but hey, that's the price you pay for having sex. I do support a woman's right to choose, but I MORE support fathers' rights, since it's 1/2 his creation, he should at the VERY least, be consulted, and have his opinion taken into consideration. If he can agree to an abortion, then there is no problem. If he can not, then we take it to a matter of whether it actually harms the mother. If she's know to have an extreme fear of pregnancy, then I can see that being a real problem, but if she's just worried about her figure, well, that's what you get for having sex. My personal opinion on abortion: Sex has consequences, no matter how much people wish it didn't. You take the chance, and spin the wheel, and you shouldn't be allowed to withdraw your bet, just because the numbers didn't side with you. But, I realize people are more selfish than that.
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black_wing_angel Vice Captain
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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 7:34 pm
The Curse He should have a decision of his own to make. Instead of just hoping his pro-life girlfriend will change her mind, he should have the option of aborting his rights to the child. It's ridiculous that a woman can get pregnant and then practically enslave the man, taking chunks of his income and demaniding his time for the large life period of eighteen years when the woman can walk out by going to an abortion clinic. She should have to make her decision knowing the man can, for the period after conception until birth, has the right to abort as much as she does. That, unfortunately, leaves a pro-life woman to fend for herself without the man who impregnated her to help.
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