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 Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:24 pm
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090316/wl_time/08599188542100Biblical scholars have long argued that the Dead Sea Scrolls were the work of an ascetic and celibate Jewish community known as the Essenes, which flourished in the 1st century A.D. in the scorching desert canyons near the Dead Sea. Now a prominent Israeli scholar, Rachel Elior, disputes that the Essenes ever existed at all - a claim that has shaken the bedrock of biblical scholarship. Elior, who teaches Jewish mysticism at Jerusalem's Hebrew University, claims that the Essenes were a fabrication by the 1st century A.D. Jewish-Roman historian Flavius Josephus and that his faulty reporting was passed on as fact throughout the centuries. As Elior explains, the Essenes make no mention of themselves in the 900 scrolls found by a Bedouin shepherd in 1947 in the caves of Qumran, near the Dead Sea. "Sixty years of research have been wasted trying to find the Essenes in the scrolls," Elior tells TIME. "But they didn't exist. This is legend on a legend." === Now I have seen the Dead Sea Scrolls, they are one of the main validation points of the tenacity and longevity of the Jewish People. Is it really important who their author was? that's like finding the author of the bible. It's a sacred text and such things should not be questioned.
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Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:32 pm
*Is terribly curious but doesn't know enough to add anything*
I've always thought Josephus was very well respected precisely Because of not making stuff up?
Even if they weren't written by the people we thought they were, would that invalidate them somehow?
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Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:43 pm
I went to Jerusalem and into the building in which they were stored. They seemed real enough to me. Lord Neuf Is it really important who their author was? that's like finding the author of the bible. It's a sacred text and such things should not be questioned. QFT It doesn't matter if they were written by the League of Extraordinary Jewish Gentlemen! The fact at the end of the day is that they are a testiment of Judaism's claim on Israel and our heritage in that land.
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Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:30 pm
The Dead Sea Scrolls are in Jerusalem? Funny,    A lot of them are in Amman, Jordan. ANYWAYS, I think it's obvious that Josephus didn't write these. The Essenes were against the Pharisees and created their own Jewish sect. The site has been found at Qumran and I have met an archaeologist who has worked on the site for many years. I don't understand why a very secretive group that existed in order to keep Jewish traditions alive would feel the need to mention themselves while copying the scrolls out. Monks didn't. I don't believe that they're simply a fabrication of Josephus.
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Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:39 pm
It's just wrong to have Torah talked about in any form with the measurement "AD." Can we get some Common Era in here?
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Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:45 pm
Lumanny It's just wrong to have Torah talked about in any form with the measurement "AD." Can we get some Common Era in here? I don't think it is... Even my Jewish professors even use AD. It's just the norm, I wouldn't take it personally or look into it too much. Even Muslims and Xtians study Torah...
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Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:21 pm
I don't think she is questioning their authenticity or anything like that. Somewhere I read about this and I may be wrong, but I think she was suggesting they were written by G-d.
And Josephus is basically the only source modern scholars have that describes the times of Jesus. Meh, I don't trust what a Roman had to say about the Jewish community at that time.
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Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:15 am
kingpinsqeezels I don't think she is questioning their authenticity or anything like that. Somewhere I read about this and I may be wrong, but I think she was suggesting they were written by G-d. And Josephus is basically the only source modern scholars have that describes the times of Jesus. Meh, I don't trust what a Roman had to say about the Jewish community at that time. I don't believe that Josephus or Tacitus(another source) wrote anything about Jesus. I think it was added into the text later on when the state became Catholic. The Latin of Josephus and Tacitus is very distinct. Tacitus only has a LINE about Jesus and it looks like it was shoved into the text and doesn't belong at all. I fully believe that there is absolutely no textual proof of Jesus having existed even though I think there may have been a martyr (like the thousands of other Christians) who was glorified to make the cult interesting. The same thing happened with Perpetua. http://acatholiclife.blogspot.com/2006/03/sts-perpetua-and-felicity.html .. and then she was turned into a Saint for her martyrdom.
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Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:03 pm
I meant to have times of Jesus in quotes. So was this guy a practicing Jew? Or did he kind of renounce that stuff when he became of citizen of Roma? Surely he wouldn't have been a favorite amongst his colleagues if he still practiced Judaism.
From watching History International all last summer I think I remember that his writings are some of the few that describe the workings and stuff about the Temple. Something about a curtain and all the crazy stuff the priests were doing with money.
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Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:26 pm
kingpinsqeezels I meant to have times of Jesus in quotes. So was this guy a practicing Jew? Or did he kind of renounce that stuff when he became of citizen of Roma? Surely he wouldn't have been a favorite amongst his colleagues if he still practiced Judaism. From watching History International all last summer I think I remember that his writings are some of the few that describe the workings and stuff about the Temple. Something about a curtain and all the crazy stuff the priests were doing with money. Ah, preistly Saducees. And us being the new Pharisees. Essenes. Zealots. Show-offs like me....
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Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:07 pm
kingpinsqeezels I meant to have times of Jesus in quotes. So was this guy a practicing Jew? Or did he kind of renounce that stuff when he became of citizen of Roma? Surely he wouldn't have been a favorite amongst his colleagues if he still practiced Judaism. From watching History International all last summer I think I remember that his writings are some of the few that describe the workings and stuff about the Temple. Something about a curtain and all the crazy stuff the priests were doing with money. Are you talking about Yeshua? I don't believe he was a practising Jew. To be honest, I think that he would have been more like Saul/Paul who wrote the Acts of the Apostles and went to Damascus and converted to Christianity from Judaism. As for Josephus, we was actually a practising Jew, born in Judea. Jerusalem to be exact.
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Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:12 pm
Lumanny kingpinsqeezels I meant to have times of Jesus in quotes. So was this guy a practicing Jew? Or did he kind of renounce that stuff when he became of citizen of Roma? Surely he wouldn't have been a favorite amongst his colleagues if he still practiced Judaism. From watching History International all last summer I think I remember that his writings are some of the few that describe the workings and stuff about the Temple. Something about a curtain and all the crazy stuff the priests were doing with money. Ah, preistly Saducees. And us being the new Pharisees. Essenes. Zealots. Show-offs like me.... I reckon that the Essenes were more observant than the Pharisees. I mean, they hated what they were seeing in Jerusalem, the Pharisees having a Holier-than-thou aura about them. The Essenes only wanted to go back to the original traditions and be the best Jews they could. There would have been absolute corruption in Jerusalem at this time.
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Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:28 pm
Media... put some clothes on already!
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Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:37 pm
LordNeuf Media... put some clothes on already! Am I a little too immodest for you? I'm getting used to the idea of wearing a bathing suit in the ME gonk
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Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:12 pm
Lumanny kingpinsqeezels I meant to have times of Jesus in quotes. So was this guy a practicing Jew? Or did he kind of renounce that stuff when he became of citizen of Roma? Surely he wouldn't have been a favorite amongst his colleagues if he still practiced Judaism. From watching History International all last summer I think I remember that his writings are some of the few that describe the workings and stuff about the Temple. Something about a curtain and all the crazy stuff the priests were doing with money. Ah, preistly Saducees. And us being the new Pharisees. Essenes. Zealots. Show-offs like me.... An interesting read for the relationship between the Saducees and the Pharisees is Salome
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