Welcome to Gaia! ::

Now we're a fun loving bunch who like to make jokes about each other and look at pictures of cute baby animals, however there comes a time when we have to look at the outside world and collectively make a stand against a certain topic and how it effects us culturally and religiously.

A few baseline facts

Judaism frowns on homosexuality in general
Some of our members are homosexuals or bisexuals
We occasionally delve into the concept of "is homosexuality acceptable in the culture if not the religion."

So this news article caught my attention, because I thought it was mildly important to show what happens when a culture does not accept homosexuality and tries to purge it.

http://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFJOE52C0GU20090313

JOHANNESBURG (Reuters) - Gangs of South African men are raping lesbians in the belief it will "cure" the women's sexual orientation, an aid agency said on Friday.

NGO ActionAid said in a report titled "Hate Crimes: the rise of corrective rape in South Africa" lesbians were increasingly at risk of rape, particularly in South African townships where homosexuality is largely taboo.

South Africa has one of the world's most progressive constitutions and became the first country in Africa to allow gay marriage in 2006, but homosexuality is still widely frowned upon and same-sex unions are often decried as "un-African".

The brutal rape and murder last year of female soccer player Eudy Simelane, a lesbian, threw a spotlight on homophobic violence, particularly toward women.

"We get insults every day, beatings if we walk alone, you are constantly reminded that you deserve to be raped," ActionAid quoted one lesbian as saying. "They yell, 'if I rape you then you will go straight, you will buy skirts and start to cook because you will have learnt how to be a real woman'."

One lesbian and gay support group told ActionAid it was dealing with 10 new cases of lesbians being targeted for what it called "corrective rape" every week in Cape Town alone.
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So I think we can make a stand on this one, and although being a lesbian is generally frowned upon by the ultra-orthodox. I honestly don't have issue with it, however I'm a Jew that broke the mold who tends to put an orange on the Seder Plate.

However this concept of "corrective rape" is almost beyond my comprehension. I understand it though, it's not to actually make a woman want a man, it's to make a woman not want to be raped again. It's a show of power to force the culture on what the culture finds unacceptable.

We Jews have a lot of taboos, mostly prohibitions as stated in the Talmud and the Torah. However there's no way anyone is less Jewish for being a lesbian or a pork eater or a Saturday morning worker.

Speaking of which I just got called into work... so I will finish my diatribe later.

But I'm sure you got the point.

Define something "Socially acceptable in your eyes"

Lets start with drinking a beer in a tavern, and having a cigarette on the street...

I say it's socially acceptable in my eyes that you could switch places and have a cigarette in a tavern and drink a beer on the street... however this is against the law to do where I am, and therefore is socially unacceptable to everyone else.

So I dunno if that argument works.

I quit smoking last month, needed the 200 bucks a month for a new car payment.

I mean if it's legal in your country you go ahead and do it.
Where I'm from you can be gay--therefore if you want to be gay or you are gay then go ahead and do it if you're allowed to.
Just don't get me involved.
Does that make a little more sense.

Of course, in some countries gays 'disappear' or are killed for being who they are.

Urrgh.
I can't think that well right now.
My wording is off and it's probably not a good idea for me to be talking about subjects like this.
I'll come back later.

Gay men, of course, are also raped by other men in an attempt to "rape the gay out" of them.

I find the title of this thread and the last post a most ironic pair. My views:


I am shocked both by the actions and by the very thought that they could be beneficial to anyone.

I said in general, Jews and the Ultra-Orthodox frown upon it. It's in the Talmud, it's in the Torah, no way getting around it, it is frowned upon. Much like eating pork is frowned upon or mixing cotton shirts and wool suits is frowned upon. We as a people tolerate homosexuality, we don't accept it.

Any rate... to complete the diatribe.

The reason I posted this nasty bit of business was to show what happens when intolerance becomes acceptable and that we as a people are sometimes just intolerant of other things, be it a life choice or a personality disposition. I personally frown and sometimes am openly hostile towards a few groups of people, yet I tolerate their existence. They have the right to be how they want to be, and I don't have the right to force them to change.

But that is when the problem starts, when people think they have the right to force change on a personal level. Be it behavior, sexuality, language, diet, whatever. When people take it upon themselves to force a premise that has been rejected, trouble starts. Anarchy starts, havoc, pain and whatever lines the road to hell.

I'm going all ranty now... I can feel it.

I happen to like being crazy, I like being eccentric, to quote the Mythbusters, "I reject your reality and substitute my own."

It's who I am.

Do people accept me for who I am? I don't think they always do, I have ideas that most people would consider 'frightening,' 'immoral,' 'deviant,' and 'insane.'

Yet, they tolerate my presence and although they ignore or laugh at my ideas, they don't try to force me to recant my ideals.

So how do we fix the problem? how do you deal with intolerance on a level such as this?

We being Jews have been victims of intolerance, however sometimes the message is lost because most of us live in a place where Jews are common. Some of us live in a place where Jews are relatively uncommon and there's a bit of hostility and self isolation on both parts.

Some of us are converting into Judaism and only know the history, never seeing the face of hate themselves.

....

To answer the third issue Divash has, that the subject matter is sensitive, and unnerving, well it's supposed to be. If I warned people of the news article it gives a reason for people to stick their heads in the sand. "Oh this is awful, I don't want to read this, this is just making me upset."

This is the world we live in, you cannot close your eyes and hope it goes away.

I mean I have seen and heard some pretty ******** up s**t in my life, I have had my world shattered before. I have been haunted by a girl who died 12 years before I was born, simply because I felt so guilty that no one did anything to save her.

It is important for me, personally, to let people know when something terrible happens and people should be made aware of it. There are lots of problems in the world, lots of bad things happen, not always to Jews, but still they happen. And when they happen people should know, because if no one here cares about them, who's going to care about us?