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Loving Kindness: A Buddhism Guild

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elano

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 7:33 pm


is paintball an acceptable game, it is violent because it is based on war. but as a game everyone is there voluterally and the pain just makes it so you dont want to lose. the pain is only temporary and it is also impersonal (i didn't shoot you because i hate you, but because you weren't on my team)

also, what would a buddhist do if...
-he was being critisized for his beliefs
-his friends were critisized for their beliefs

and what do buddhists think about gay people, because i have friends who are gay and am against homophobia
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 7:59 am


Im not buddhist but to my understanding paintball would still be violence much like karate. So I dont beleive it would be acceptable. Both seem to be training or preparing for violence even though both are not personal.
As for being critized for your beleifs I think a buddhist is suposed to be passive. Im not sure if you are suposed to correct them either because to my understanding you are not suposed to preach your beleifs unless it is asked for.
As for gay people I dont think its a problem. I have not seen anything against it..

Someone please correct me if im wrong about any of this.

byebyebye1

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Cranium Squirrel
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Friendly Trickster

PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:10 am


The only places I've seen Buddhism have an outspoken problem with gay people is in the Tibetan strand - it's considered an abomination by that specific lineage. Everywhere else, it's scripturally seen as a lower birth - granted, so is being female - simply because of an attachment that both have to staying with people. *shrug*
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:10 am


Karate, though violence, is a martial art that is meant not only for defense, but for meditation and achieving enlightenment.

Zoutout


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:00 pm


Zoutout
Karate, though violence, is a martial art that is meant not only for defense, but for meditation and achieving enlightenment.

I think that is true only if it is used that way and not only in preperation for violence. Once again correct me if I am wrong.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:14 pm


Well, of course, you have to use it that way for it to work that way.

It really depends on what kind of class it is - a self-defense class, or a traditional class.

Zoutout


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:33 pm


Are monks even suposed to defend themselves when attacked? I heard a sad story.. I think it was the nazi's in WW2 that went into a buddhist temple and killed all the monks and before one was shot he said "I forgive you."
Im not sure if it was true.. it was a long time ago when I heard it so excuse my ignorance. It upset me though sad
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 6:07 pm


Buddhism can be a pretty flexible Religion in many instances, maybe less in Theravada code but they're still not absolutist in the precepts.

The precepts are there because they tend to cause bad karma, not just because. Karma's rooted in thought. If you enact violence and harm against an individual, both you and most likely the other person as well are gonna develop and reinforce some negative thinking unless you're exceedingly mindful of what you're doing, and even then you'll probably not come out of it squeeky clean.

But more importantly, this stuff has gradients and a whole lot of grey in between black and white. (Notice how the Tao yin-yang symbol has a dot of black in the white and a dot of white in the black, and how they swirl into each other? This is a mutual expression of this concept in Taoism)

They're not commandments from God, they're observations made by the Buddha about hinderances to spiritual development.

So paintballing isn't equal to slowly gutting a toddler with a blunt, rusty butcher knife. The difference in spiritual health between the two is like the difference in bodily health between eating a cookie and swallowing a cyanide pill.

blacktallon on the monks in WW2 - Debatable. Some say it's a a sin to kill in self-defense, some say it's perfectly acceptable. The Dalai Llama himself supports killing in self-defense and, as we're on the subject of Tibet, you'll find no Tibetan vegetarians. If they couldn't break the precept, they'd all die of starvation. There are sutras that talk of "Compassionate Killing" (And this doesn't include euthanasia) and the use of violence to protect the Dharma.

Violence, warfare and such can be a difficult conversation in Buddhism, considering their numerous brushes with Communism in particular in places like Tibet, Indochina, Burma, and Thailand. China and Japan have a rich history of Buddhist influence and involvement in warfare as well. And in Sri Lanka at around 100 B.C. there was the single instance of what might be called Buddhist "Holy War" against the Tamils as chronicled in the Maha-vamsa.

Harry Parachute


Harry Parachute

PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 6:14 pm


As for homosexuality...yeah, Buddhism states it's bad more or less. It falls under the precept speaking against "sexual misconduct".

Probably not something you're going to be sent to the depths of Hell over, but it's not going to be a great help in developing spiritually. Sex's for procreation, according to Buddhism and most Religions, and if you consider yourself a homosexual...well...you can connect the dots as to where this is going to go.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 8:25 pm


Harry Parachute


blacktallon on the monks in WW2 - Debatable. Some say it's a a sin to kill in self-defense, some say it's perfectly acceptable. The Dalai Llama himself supports killing in self-defense and, as we're on the subject of Tibet, you'll find no Tibetan vegetarians. If they couldn't break the precept, they'd all die of starvation. There are sutras that talk of "Compassionate Killing" (And this doesn't include euthanasia) and the use of violence to protect the Dharma.


Thanks for the info smile

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Zoutout

PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:48 am


About illing in self defense:

The general martial arts teaching seems to be:

Subdue before damage
Damage before maim
Maim before kill

i.e. do what's necessary, but don't go over the top.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:09 pm


Harry Parachute
As for homosexuality...yeah, Buddhism states it's bad more or less. It falls under the precept speaking against "sexual misconduct".


but you dont have to have sex in order to be gay?

a few more q's though

if all beings can achive enlightenment can beasts such as a lion (who must survive on meat alone) become enlightened?

elano


Harry Parachute

PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:52 pm


elano
Harry Parachute
As for homosexuality...yeah, Buddhism states it's bad more or less. It falls under the precept speaking against "sexual misconduct".


but you dont have to have sex in order to be gay?

a few more q's though

if all beings can achive enlightenment can beasts such as a lion (who must survive on meat alone) become enlightened?


If you're raising the issue of whether a homosexual chooses to be homosexual or is born a homosexual, that's a different question. Point remains, sexual acts that aren't used for procreation, and even to an extent when they are done for procreation, don't tend to help out with enlightenment.

If you have a proclivity towards sexual relations with members of the same sex, it's a further hinderance towards sexual misconduct.

Again, this isn't like saying "Homosexuals go to Hell", it just means they have a hang-up and tend to not reach enlightenment as quickly. Then again a straight guy with an insatiable sex drive who deceives and uses women to fulfill it isn't as bad as a gay guy who has good, measured control of his libido.

On the question of animals attaining enlightenment: Ideally yes, it's possible because they partake in karma, but this is like saying "Yes, a Chimpanzee could "possibly" write Shakespear with enough time at a typewriter".

So no, animals will probably not figure out the nature of existence...because animals are dumb...they're really, really dumb...and figuring this stuff out takes a lot of smarts over a long, long time.

As in many human lifetimes.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:14 am


This is just my personal interpretation of what Buddhism teaches, but it seems to me that the only time violence is acceptable is when you are defending yourself, or another person who is unable to defend themself for one reason or another. Of course, as, I believe Akanishi has already said, this involves the ability to properly judge the force necessary to neutralise the situation, and not kill when it isn't necessary.

Merlin the White


AssiaYomomato

PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:37 am


eek I may sound ignorant, but I'm having trouble understanding how paintballing could even be considered unnacceptable if you aren't training for violence, and aren't pelting people with the paintballs out of spite. It's just a game, made for fun...So how come it could be unnacceptable. @.@ This takes too much thinking..
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Loving Kindness: A Buddhism Guild

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