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 Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:02 pm
So everyone we've all seen them MorganxFriesian(Moriesian) PaintxFriesian, ArabxFriesian. Is it a new trend? I want to know what you think about this topic.
My Thoughts: Well when the first Friesians came to America they were almost lost due to crossbreeding. And the age-old question comes up, Does history repeat itself? Now I'm on both sides, I think some are good, making ideal sport horses, its almost the same idea of the FPZV. Creating the worlds best sporthorses, a horse than can excell in anything and everything, jumping, driving, dressage, you name it. It has the elegance and power of the Friesian, but has a type of grace, strength, and stamina of another breed. And hey some of them are really pretty. Yet on the other side this breed is a noble and important breed especially to those of thier land, Friesland. In the development of this breed it was a farm horse, a war horse, and a famed trotter. And now we see the Friesian today, a proud horse, generations in thier creation, timeless in thier nobility. Powerful, yet elegant movement, a gaceful and royal breed that came from years of improvment. A skilled dressage and driving horse the Friesian is a breed that is so wonderful that there is no need to improve on it via crossbreeding. The purebreds are what we need, not touched by any other, not influenced by any other. The Friesian is just perfect the way it stands.
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Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:03 pm
Good topic. smile
I'm very weary of crossing Friesians. They're such a unique breed and they really don't cross well with too many other breeds. Friesian/Morgans turn out pretty nice most of the time, but Friesian/Thoroughbreds? No way. That's like breeding an Akahl Teke to a Clydesdale.
I ranted a while ago about them here .
I would think Friesian breeders would want to keep the lines pure, seeing as they're so scarce.
If you search any horse classifieds, you'll find butt- ugly Friesian X's everywhere. More often than not, the foal inherits the bad traits of both breeds. There are typy crosses, but you have to have to really know what you're doing and put tons of thought into what you're breeding. I would never breed to a Friesian X, though, because you don't know what genes will end up where and your foal could easily end up looking like the grade horses at auction going for 18 cents a pound.
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Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:24 pm
`Forgotten Ragdoll Good topic. smile
I'm very weary of crossing Friesians. They're such a unique breed and they really don't cross well with too many other breeds. Friesian/Morgans turn out pretty nice most of the time, but Friesian/Thoroughbreds? No way. That's like breeding an Akahl Teke to a Clydesdale.
I ranted a while ago about them here .
I would think Friesian breeders would want to keep the lines pure, seeing as they're so scarce.
If you search any horse classifieds, you'll find butt- ugly Friesian X's everywhere. More often than not, the foal inherits the bad traits of both breeds. There are typy crosses, but you have to have to really know what you're doing and put tons of thought into what you're breeding. I would never breed to a Friesian X, though, because you don't know what genes will end up where and your foal could easily end up looking like the grade horses at auction going for 18 cents a pound.
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Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:17 pm
Silver Moon Kitsune `Forgotten Ragdoll Good topic. smile
I'm very weary of crossing Friesians. They're such a unique breed and they really don't cross well with too many other breeds. Friesian/Morgans turn out pretty nice most of the time, but Friesian/Thoroughbreds? No way. That's like breeding an Akahl Teke to a Clydesdale.
I ranted a while ago about them here .
I would think Friesian breeders would want to keep the lines pure, seeing as they're so scarce.
If you search any horse classifieds, you'll find butt- ugly Friesian X's everywhere. More often than not, the foal inherits the bad traits of both breeds. There are typy crosses, but you have to have to really know what you're doing and put tons of thought into what you're breeding. I would never breed to a Friesian X, though, because you don't know what genes will end up where and your foal could easily end up looking like the grade horses at auction going for 18 cents a pound. Exactly.
I think a lot of BYB's like to breed their grade mares to Friesian stallions so they can boast of having a Friesian sporthorse. That absolutely makes my skin crawl. They seem to think that by breeding a mare to a Friesian, the foal is somehow rare and amazing. They don't have the brains to see the conformation discrepancy between a quality sporthorse and the little llama - creature they created.
Breeding should require a license.
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Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:14 am
`Forgotten Ragdoll Silver Moon Kitsune `Forgotten Ragdoll Good topic. smile
I'm very weary of crossing Friesians. They're such a unique breed and they really don't cross well with too many other breeds. Friesian/Morgans turn out pretty nice most of the time, but Friesian/Thoroughbreds? No way. That's like breeding an Akahl Teke to a Clydesdale.
I ranted a while ago about them here .
I would think Friesian breeders would want to keep the lines pure, seeing as they're so scarce.
If you search any horse classifieds, you'll find butt- ugly Friesian X's everywhere. More often than not, the foal inherits the bad traits of both breeds. There are typy crosses, but you have to have to really know what you're doing and put tons of thought into what you're breeding. I would never breed to a Friesian X, though, because you don't know what genes will end up where and your foal could easily end up looking like the grade horses at auction going for 18 cents a pound. Exactly.
I think a lot of BYB's like to breed their grade mares to Friesian stallions so they can boast of having a Friesian sporthorse. That absolutely makes my skin crawl. They seem to think that by breeding a mare to a Friesian, the foal is somehow rare and amazing. They don't have the brains to see the conformation discrepancy between a quality sporthorse and the little llama - creature they created.
Breeding should require a license.
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Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:46 pm
Ragdoll: Yep so true. (by the way) I loved the rant on the blog is it yours?) I know and what alos makes me mad is when I go to Equine.com or somrthing like that is see random Friesian stallions who are standign for stud and mostly all of them are NOT Approved stallions. and the studfee is like only $300-$600 for a backyard stallion. Now for a good FPS/FHANA, FPZV/FHS Approved Stallion the studfee is almost always over $1k and with a LFG and well a spectacular stallion. And the FPS doesn't allow crossbreeding, for a good reason too. The FPZV does but because they have a different goal than FPS. The way the stallions are tested are to see if they are worthy contenders for having a breeding license, to be able to improve the breed, its a lengthy and intense, super critical inspection they go through. Hmm I wonder acutally if there are licenses to breed for breeders, there mguiht be but who knows what it classifies, breeding to purebreds, breeding to all breeds? I don't know.
Dragon: I know, its to amazing to experimet on. The Friesian breeder I know picks the best combination mare and stallion to create an ideal foal. Height can be a factor taking a tall stallion (such as Feike or Nanning) and breeding to another tall mare or a medium sized mare to create either tall offspring or medium sized. A stallion that produces, "lazy" offspring with a mare who is "hotter" to have an equal mix. And then there is the ever-so popular "I want my friesian with a long luxurious mane" Well have your Oege/Anton foal xD. But getting back, like you said research on gene mixing should be considered. A cross might have Friesian blood but most of the time you wont get the "Friesian" trot or feathering(only i'm guessing if a FriesianxGypsy, or some sort of draft), and I bet some out there just think oh if I cross this i'll get a great trot( hmm a Friesian and a gaited horse, what kind of trot/movement would that be?).
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Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:36 am
Thanks. smile Yeah, that's my blog. I can't stand it when these idiots get their paws on horses like that. I'd love to know how these BYB's go about acquiring Friesians. Even in this economy, they're a pretty penny.
And the ads saying they'll breed to any mare. And discounts for multiple mares. Ugh. These people have more money than brains.
Kind of off topic, but I love this Friesian X.
http://www.equinehits.com/horses-for-sale/horse-247669
A good example of responsible breeding. He looks a smidge long in the back, but that face. He's so handsome. heart
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Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:16 pm
Ragdoll: I love your blog and all the other posts, they were great. That cross is a nice one indeed. Oh yes that face was simply, oh it had some Friesian in there. same with the neck, it resembles Friesianness. xD Really people think they get a classy Friesian when they cross, oh it may have Friesian in it but its only a half-breed. Oh it just makes me mad when I see people trying to stand thier backyard unapproved stallions at stud. Leave it to the Professional stallions, who are breeding for a reason!
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Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:50 am
Popping in to play devils advocate for a moment...
The problem with breeding friesians is that the registering association (can't remember what it's called... crap. It's too early) is SO picky about the horses to register as stallions. Which, in a way is a good thing. Only the best horses are allowed to continuing and improve the breed. I am all for that. But if you go to far with it, you have the problem of the dwindling gene pool, and it becomes really hard to get an approved stallion, and almost as difficult to find a stallion that you can breed your approved mare to with a low enough inbreeding coefficient. A friend of mine had a really nice mare who was going through inspections (I don't remember what level she was... I'm not all that familiar with them) and he was starting to plan out breeding her, and because there are so few approved stallions, there are only a few lines that all of the approved horses are coming from. The Friesian association has helped this to some degree by requiring a certain inbreeding coefficient to prevent people from breeding a mare to her half-brother so that they can keep good lines, but as they get super picky about the horses they approve, the gene pool is getting shallower and shallower.
So, lets try this scenario. You have a stallion. A nice stallion. Not a spectacular stallion, but a good one. Not some back yard POS. You take him to his first inspection, he passes. You get all excited. He passes through a few rounds of testing, and then just when you've started really investing money into him... he fails. As far as a friesian stallion goes, he is now basically worthless. No one with an approved mare would dream of breeding to him because the babies would be worthless. So what do you do? You need to figure out some way to get some return on this horse. The perfect answer is cross breeding. Yeah, it can be done wrong, and you get some FUGLY cross breeds. You also get some decent ones though, if you know what you're doing. Friesians cross funny, but if you can figure out how the traits carry over, you can get nice horses out of it. I've known a couple arab crosses that turned out pretty nice. One shows Prix St. Georges dressage.
So before we can talk about the cross breeders "ruining" the breed, let's look at the breed registries who are making it impossible for people to breed purebreds.
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Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:02 pm
AriaStarSong Popping in to play devils advocate for a moment... The problem with breeding friesians is that the registering association (can't remember what it's called... crap. It's too early) is SO picky about the horses to register as stallions. Which, in a way is a good thing. Only the best horses are allowed to continuing and improve the breed. I am all for that. But if you go to far with it, you have the problem of the dwindling gene pool, and it becomes really hard to get an approved stallion, and almost as difficult to find a stallion that you can breed your approved mare to with a low enough inbreeding coefficient. A friend of mine had a really nice mare who was going through inspections (I don't remember what level she was... I'm not all that familiar with them) and he was starting to plan out breeding her, and because there are so few approved stallions, there are only a few lines that all of the approved horses are coming from. The Friesian association has helped this to some degree by requiring a certain inbreeding coefficient to prevent people from breeding a mare to her half-brother so that they can keep good lines, but as they get super picky about the horses they approve, the gene pool is getting shallower and shallower. So, lets try this scenario. You have a stallion. A nice stallion. Not a spectacular stallion, but a good one. Not some back yard POS. You take him to his first inspection, he passes. You get all excited. He passes through a few rounds of testing, and then just when you've started really investing money into him... he fails. As far as a friesian stallion goes, he is now basically worthless. No one with an approved mare would dream of breeding to him because the babies would be worthless. So what do you do? You need to figure out some way to get some return on this horse. The perfect answer is cross breeding. Yeah, it can be done wrong, and you get some FUGLY cross breeds. You also get some decent ones though, if you know what you're doing. Friesians cross funny, but if you can figure out how the traits carry over, you can get nice horses out of it. I've known a couple arab crosses that turned out pretty nice. One shows Prix St. Georges dressage. So before we can talk about the cross breeders "ruining" the breed, let's look at the breed registries who are making it impossible for people to breed purebreds.
was a new book added to the KFPS called the D-Book or daughter book. This is for KFPS mares who would like to breed to FPZV stallions. This was a huge step forward for the Friesian.
This year, the FHANA board voted to do away with the B-book after December 31, 2008. This also includes the D-book. In Europe all of this is possible but not in the USA. Some of the KFPS approved stallion owners in the USA are telling owners of FPZV mares that if they breed their stallions to one of our mares, that they could have their approval on their stallions removed. How could this be? They are KFPS approved, not FHANA approved. With the great strides that have been made between the KFPS and the FPZV, I feel this is a huge step backwards for us in the USA. Right now, we really don't understand how someone can say they follow the mother studbook when changes like this are allowed. But we did get word from KFPS that this will be allowed. From what I understand FHANA can be stricter than KFPS.
My personal opinion on this is that if you are going to belong to a European registry, you should follow ALL rules of that registry. But like I said, that is MY opinion and my opinion only.
These statements above are in no way bashing FHANA, but we felt like our FPZV members needed to know the facts.
Hmm did that even go along with this topic, heck I don't know but its similar.
Now through all my ranting I don't think crossbreeding is completely bad and people who do it are going to kill the breed, but if its taken really far the breed could become endangered, its happend before to other breeds. Some crosses are really nice. Yet People like me who are die-hard friesian fans who love and admire all that FHANA and the FPS do like to keep things they way the've been for years, but thats my opinion, and I respect yours too.
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Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:14 pm
Nice response. smile Like I said, I really don't know all that much about it. Just trying to provide another point of view. It would be a pity for the breed to become endangered, as they really are wonderful horses.
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Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:35 pm
AriaStarSong Nice response. smile Like I said, I really don't know all that much about it. Just trying to provide another point of view. It would be a pity for the breed to become endangered, as they really are wonderful horses.
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Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:04 am
I think that the big problem with the friesian registry being so strict these days is that there IS a huge percentage of defects occurring as a result of inbreeding. A member on another website that I belong to owns a family business that is centered around friesians, and though she is an advocate against your average joe cross breeding their average friesian, she supports breeders who have experience breeding friesians to make GOOD, quality crosses. I'm personally a fan of georgian grandes (saddlebredxfriesian), and I've also seen some nice arabxfriesians.
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