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 Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:43 am
I Was on a forum today.
It was all about Snape, and weather or not he was a allie or a axis. The general idea was that Snape, killed Dumbledore. However from what i gathered from the Half blood Prince, and the Deathly Hallows, it was Draco.
This is why:
Dumbledore had the Elder wand, and to be owner of it, you have to disarm/defeat the current owner. When Dumbledore died, the rightful owner was Draco. However everyone else thought that Snape killed him, even Voldemort. Harry disarms Draco, which makes him the rightful owner. During this time Voldemort deals with Snape, in thinking doing so he will become the rightful owner. So when Voldemort prizes the wand away from Dumbledore's corpse, he challenges Harry, but the wand doesn't work due to the fact it does not belong to him.
Am i right?
Or have i just misinturprted the story?
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:37 pm
Well as I understand it, Draco did not kill Dumbledore but he did defeat him. Thus the Elder Wand belonged to Draco although he did not know it and so never took possession of it.
We could also argue that because Dumbledore's death was in fact planned out, Snape merely helped him die as opposed to actively killing him. The point is moot, however, seeing as Draco had already defeated Dumbledore before Snape arrived and so the Elder Wand would never have belonged to Snape.
The trick is that everyone believes Snape is the rightful owner of the Elder Wand because he "killed" Dumbledore. Voldemort deals with Snape in order to own the Elder Wand not knowing that the true owner was Draco not Snape. Harry then disarmed Draco making him the owner of the Elder Wand which is why when Voldemort acquires the wand from Dumbledore's corpse it won't work for him.
Basically Snape did, technically speaking, kill Dumbledore. However, because Draco had defeated Dumbledore minutes before Snape's arrival, the Elder Wand recognized Draco as its owner.
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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:45 pm
Yeah, gina787 is right.
Dumbledore planned his death out with Snape in hoping that would not count as Snape 'defeating' him. He hoped the Elder Wand would die with him.
But he didn't realize that 'defeating' and 'killing' were two different things for the Elder Wand.
Whatever happened to the Elder Wand, anyway? :O
I know Harry mended his wand with it, but then what?
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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:26 pm
I think Harry returned it to Dumbledore's tomb to keep it safe and out of reach in hopes that, if he dies a natural death, the power of the wand will be broken since it's true owner is dead.
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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:42 pm
I thought Dumbledore was dying any way because of a faux Horcux. And since it was so painful he simply had Snape end his suffering. I don't think that contituets as killing someone, I mean it was a bit like taking someone of life support when you know that they can't come back.
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Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:45 pm
Draco defeated Dumbledore, Snape ended his life (which was already ending)
If you need another way of looking at it, here:
Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald, Voldemort killed him.
same basic idea for explination and I believe for the Elder Wand ruling, the above postings make that clearer than I could.
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Minerva the Bookwyrm Crew
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Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:45 am
I agree with what everyone else already said about defeating/killing being different. Lelandra, that example about Grindelwald was an excellent example for getting your point across! From the results of the poll, it looks like everyone agrees.
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:02 am
beware this is a spoiler!!! draco was told by the dark lord to kill dumbledore but before dumbledore asked snape to kill him when the time is right
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Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:50 pm
When Dumbledore got injured after he put the ring on his hand, Snape told him that he had a year to live. So Dumbledore told Snape that when the time was right, he had to kill Dumbledore. So they had it all planned out. Dumbledore was dying so by Snape killing him, it was just simply putting him out of his misery, but even though Snape did kill Dumbledore in all technicalities (sp?), the Elder Wand recognized a new owner: Draco Malfoy. Because of the fact that Draco disarmed Dumbledore minutes before Snape and the other Death Eaters arrived. It says in book 7 that to be the owner of the Elder Wand, one has to defeat, not kill, but defeat the other person. So then when Harry disarmed Draco at Malfoy Manor, the Elder Wand recognized Harry as the new owner. Which is one of the reasons why it wouldn't work for Voldemort. If anyone was confused, you're not alone. It took me forever to figure it out. I had read HBP about 4 times, and DH twice when I finally figured out why Malfoy was the owner of the Elder Wand, then Harry. I forgot that little detail where Malfoy disarmed Dumbledore.
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Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:08 pm
Didn't Harry fix his wand with the Elder Wand, then give it to Draco and keep his wand?
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Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:40 pm
No, he got rid of the wand so that he could die its master and it would never have a 'true master' again. He hid it away somewhere, although I can't remember where. That way its evil could never be used again.
*cough* Join Dueling Club at the Haven *cough*
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Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 11:58 am
We don't know where Harry hid the Elder Wand. All we know is that he hid it so that the wand would never have another true master, the wand and it's power would die with Harry.
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Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 12:36 pm
Hey guys, this is fear on her mule.
Anyway, Harry repared his wand then put the elder wand back in dumbledores tomb.
When talking to dumbledores portrait he references putting it back in the tomb.
Snape killed dumbledore, but draco DISARMED dumbledore, hence the loyalties laying with draco.
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Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:52 pm
Okay, you guys are getting waaay too into this. In the book the wand works for Snape so obviously he became the rightful owner at the time. Then Voldemort killed Snape {hmmm... Or Nagini?? So would Nagini then be the owner?} but that doesn't matter because Harry kills Voldemort in the end and it becomes his.
But really, who cares?
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Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2009 6:43 pm
Grey Gardens Okay, you guys are getting waaay too into this. In the book the wand works for Snape so obviously he became the rightful owner at the time. Then Voldemort killed Snape {hmmm... Or Nagini?? So would Nagini then be the owner?} but that doesn't matter because Harry kills Voldemort in the end and it becomes his. But really, who cares?
What you talking about?
It says in the book "Ah but draco malfoy was the rightful owner"
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