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 Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:25 pm
CNN Commentary: Choosing Rick Warren Was A MistakeThe Nation | What's The Matter With Rick Warren?RHRealityCheck.org | The Real Rick WarrenFacebook Group | No Rick Warren at Obama Inauguration (This has many videos that appear to be very interesting and informative and many links that just are. Also the first place I heard about this!) As the links explain, Barack Obama has chosen Pastor Rick Warren to give the invocation at his inaugural ceremony. Rick Warren is a well-known religious figure and bestselling author who enjoys his public perception as a moderate. However, Rick Warren is about as radical as much of the Christian right, as the CNN link explains. Most disturbingly, he has compared same-sex marriage to allowing child sexual abuse, incest, and polygamy and is strongly opposed to abortion rights and common-ground/common sense measures to reduce unwanted pregnancy. Some of Warren's offensive/controversial comments include: On AbortionQuote: For many evangelicals, of course, if they believe that life begins at conception, that's a deal breaker for a lot of people. If they think that life begins at conception, then that means that there are 40 million Americans who are not here [because they were aborted] that could have voted. They would call that a holocaust and for them it would like if I'm Jewish and a Holocaust denier is running for office. I don't care how right he is on everything else, it's a deal breaker for me. I'm not going to vote for a Holocaust denier... [ Source] Quote: But to me it is kind of a charade in that people say ‘We believe abortions should be safe and rare,’” he added. “Don’t tell me it should be rare. That’s like saying on the Holocaust, ‘Well, maybe we could save 20 percent of the Jewish people in Poland and Germany and get them out and we should be satisfied with that,’” Warren said. “I’m not satisfied with that. I want the Holocaust ended.” [ Source] Quote: "The issue to me, I'm not opposed to that as much as I'm opposed to redefinition of a 5,000 year definition of marriage. I'm opposed to having a brother and sister being together and calling that marriage. I'm opposed to an older guy marrying a child and calling that marriage. I'm opposed to one guy having multiple wives and calling that marriage." [ Source] (Loltacularly, the biblical definition of marriage DID include guys having multiple wives...) Quote: "...this debate is not really about civil rights, but a desire for approval. The fact that 70% of blacks supported Prop 8 shows they don't believe it is a civil rights issue. Gays in California already have their rights." [ Source] Quote: If you're asking me do I believe in evolution, the answer is no, I don't. I believe that God, at a moment, created man. I do believe Genesis is literal, but I do also know metaphorical terms are used. Did God come down and blow in man's nose? If you believe in God, you don't have a problem accepting miracles. So if God wants to do it that way, it's fine with me. [ Source] Quote: If life is just random chance, then nothing really does matter and there is no morality—it's survival of the fittest. If survival of the fittest means me killing you to survive, so be it. For years, atheists have said there is no God, but they want to live like God exists. They want to live like their lives have meaning. [ Source] Quote: You'd much rather have somebody—an atheist—feeding the hungry than a person who believes in God? All of the great movements forward in Western civilization were by believers. It was pastors who led the abolition of slavery. It was pastors who led the woman's right to vote. It was pastors who led the civil-rights movement. Not atheists. [ Source] ________________________ Please post more quotes if you have them! Personally, I'm dissapointed. Both in myself and the man I thought that I could trust. I had absolutely no idea how radical this guy was. He's considered a moderate, but the things he says are just slightly more tactful articulations of the views that radical right-wing leaders have. He's done a great job of hiding his positions, but I'm still freaked out that I didn't know. The Purpose Driven Life is in my ******** living room right now.And I just don't know what to think about Obama right now. I feel like he's turned his back on us at best. So many people supported him because he supported equality. What the ********, Mr. President-Elect? EDIT: The CNN link now actually goes where it says it does.
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Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:21 pm
It's not like he's giving him power of any sort, or any say in what he's going to do as president.
Obama is living to his word. "We are not a red America, or a blue America, we are the United States of America..." That is what he is living up to. We've just had a president who, for eight years, completely ignored one side of the country and lived up to nothing but his own pathetic agenda, and he split the country. All Obama is doing is getting the respect from the right-wingers; he's gaining the support of evangelical Americans, pro-life America, and anti-equal rights America (they are nothing more )< ). He's trying to gain support, since that will be the first step in uniting our country. I think it's a good thing, and a good, passive way to gain support. Very smart.
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:22 am
Awwwww... I was going to throw a bunch of Warren's quotes into the "Pro-Life Love" thread... oh well.
I really don't like the fact that he choose Warren because of the obvious stupidity and blatant adfsdugfhg this guy has caused. (I could not think up a harsh enough word) But I can see why Obama would choose someone like him. For the same reasons Crazy mentioned.
But what really gets me is that these psycho people would NEVER EVER choose anyone normal like us if they were the ones getting into power. It's like we are always forced to cater to their whims while they won't even think about doing the same for us. It's disturbing, illogical, stupid and destructive (like Phaedra mentioned). These people should be shamed and persecuted not praised and publically displayed. *fume*
I'm not going to let this dampen my enthusiasm for Obama though.
Oh and another thing... Rick Warren looks really creepy. Pandagon has a loooot of great posts up and some pictures of Warren that I personally find highly disturbing. He's a fatman with a gotee and it makes him look like a porn director. I know I know, don't judge a man by his looks but seriously. This guy creeps me out. I would never go near him... ever.
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:17 pm
And what's his porno? Mary Magdalen: Sin Style!
Ahahaha.
Lame.
It is ridiculous that one side more often caters to the other, but it's better than having both groups alienated the whole time. I'm not entirely happy with his choice since he's kind of thrown salt in the wound of the LBGT community, but I do think it was a wise political choice.
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:36 pm
Hmm... maybe it is smart to try to include the other side, but this side is all about excluding people. Also, via Pandagon I found more messed-up quotes: Quote: Finally, a word about being judgmental. It's not judgmental to say that what the Bible calls a sin is a sin, that's just telling the truth. Not being willing to talk to someone caught up in sin, or not believing that they can be forgiven, or thinking that you are not just as much in need of Jesus as they are ... that's being judgmental. Because membership in a church is an outgrowth of accepting the Lordship and leadership of Jesus in one’s life, someone unwilling to repent of their homosexual lifestyle would not be accepted at a member at Saddleback Church. That does not mean they cannot attend church – we hope they do! God’s Word has the power to change our lives. In equal desire to follow Jesus, we also would not accept a couple into membership at Saddleback who were not willing to repent of the sexual sin of living together before marriage. That does not mean this couple cannot attend church – we hope they do! God’s Word has the power to change our lives. In the beginning of this part he also equates homosexuality to--you guessed it!--adultery and pornography! More on abortion: Quote: Where does Saddleback stand on abortion? Answer: The Bible clearly teaches that life begins at conception. With that clear teaching from God, abortion is murder and so is obviously wrong. “You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body and knit them together in my mother’s womb. Thank you for making me so wonderfully complex! It is amazing to think about. Your workmanship is marvelous—and how well I know it. You were there while I was being formed in utter seclusion! You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!.” Psalm 139:13-16 TLB If you are a woman who has had an abortion, and are feeling far from God due to fear or guilt, our Heavenly Father offers both grace and forgiveness. We encourage you to contact Saddleback’s church office for more information on our Post Abortion Support Group, and come to know the love and compassion of our Lord Jesus Christ. “Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is the Father who is full of mercy and all comfort. He comforts us every time we have trouble, so when others have trouble, we can comfort them with the same comfort God gives us.” 2 Corinthians 1:2-4 NCV I've noticed that their bible verses seem... "dumbed down". Or at least modernized. What gives? EDIT: More quotes via Feministe: Quote: 1. Submission does not mean women are under the authority of men in general. I love the King James Version’s rendition of Ephesians 5:22 “Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands.” Guess what? Wives aren’t asked to submit to anyone else’s husband! Just their own! Paul’s primary directive to women dealt with submission, while his primary directive to men dealt with love. Could it be that he was targeting the areas most likely to be our weaknesses? The Greek word for “submit” is hupotasso. Hupo means “under” and tasso means “to place in order.” The compound word hupotasso means “to place under or in an orderly fashion.” Paul didn’t dislike women, he liked order! He advocated order in the church, order in government, order in business, and, yes, order in the home. God granted women a measure of freedom in submission that we can learn to enjoy. It is a relief to know that as a wife and mother I am not totally responsible for my family. I have a husband to look to for counsel and direction. I can rely on his toughness when I am too soft and his logic when I am too emotional. Think of marriage as a three-legged stool. The legs are a submissive wife, a loving husband, and Christ. All three legs must be in place for marriage to work as God intended. A wife submitting to an unloving husband is as lopsided as a loving husband sacrificing for a domineering wife. Words ******** fail.
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Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:07 am
Actually I was thinking more along the lines of the Sarah Palin one since she's a woman woman. Obviously. rolleyes
Words do fail but when confronted with someone like that we should not remain silent. And yeah, what the hell is with the severe dumbing down of the bible quotes? Not good enough in their purest form? Or does he think women are too stupid to understand the blatant ironic evilness in it?
I've been wondering. Isn't God the Lord and Jesus just the Savior? Why do these people talk about Jesus as if Jesus is god? Isn't that blasphemy? I don't get it.
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Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:14 pm
LadyInWhite Words do fail but when confronted with someone like that we should not remain silent. Quoted for truth.
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:58 pm
When it comes to catering to the other side for unity, one of the two sides has got to show some ambition and take the first step. It just so happens to be this side!
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:00 pm
LadyInWhite I've been wondering. Isn't God the Lord and Jesus just the Savior? Why do these people talk about Jesus as if Jesus is god? Isn't that blasphemy? I don't get it.
The trinity is the Father, Son(JESUS!), and Holy Spirit. The Trinity's whole is our God, and each part makes up the whole God- and many people consider that (very mathematically obvious) fact can make the three parts interchangeable. So it's not blasphemy, as much as one's own perspective on how the trinity works, which is very ambiguous in ze Bible.
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Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:09 pm
PhaedraMcSpiffy More on abortion: Quote: Where does Saddleback stand on abortion? Answer: The Bible clearly teaches that life begins at conception. With that clear teaching from God, abortion is murder and so is obviously wrong. “You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body and knit them together in my mother’s womb. Thank you for making me so wonderfully complex! It is amazing to think about. Your workmanship is marvelous—and how well I know it. You were there while I was being formed in utter seclusion! You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!.” Psalm 139:13-16 TLB If you are a woman who has had an abortion, and are feeling far from God due to fear or guilt, our Heavenly Father offers both grace and forgiveness. We encourage you to contact Saddleback’s church office for more information on our Post Abortion Support Group, and come to know the love and compassion of our Lord Jesus Christ. “Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is the Father who is full of mercy and all comfort. He comforts us every time we have trouble, so when others have trouble, we can comfort them with the same comfort God gives us.” 2 Corinthians 1:2-4 NCV I've noticed that their bible verses seem... "dumbed down". Or at least modernized. What gives?
The Old Testament actually says (literally) that a child is human after 30 days of life outside its mother. So that quote from Psalm given has nothing to do as to when a fetus-baby is considered a human, and in fact is only a quote to support the belief that our lives have some fate behind them; that quote is also explaining how the human is a complex creature. In fact, that quote nowhere in it says that the fetus-baby talking has had life breathed into it yet, and is only talking about how it's being FORMED inside the mother, thanks to God.
Anybody else agree with me?
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Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:12 pm
Wren Isabella PhaedraMcSpiffy More on abortion: Quote: Where does Saddleback stand on abortion? Answer: The Bible clearly teaches that life begins at conception. With that clear teaching from God, abortion is murder and so is obviously wrong. “You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body and knit them together in my mother’s womb. Thank you for making me so wonderfully complex! It is amazing to think about. Your workmanship is marvelous—and how well I know it. You were there while I was being formed in utter seclusion! You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!.” Psalm 139:13-16 TLB If you are a woman who has had an abortion, and are feeling far from God due to fear or guilt, our Heavenly Father offers both grace and forgiveness. We encourage you to contact Saddleback’s church office for more information on our Post Abortion Support Group, and come to know the love and compassion of our Lord Jesus Christ. “Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is the Father who is full of mercy and all comfort. He comforts us every time we have trouble, so when others have trouble, we can comfort them with the same comfort God gives us.” 2 Corinthians 1:2-4 NCV I've noticed that their bible verses seem... "dumbed down". Or at least modernized. What gives?
The Old Testament actually says (literally) that a child is human after 30 days of life outside its mother. So that quote from Psalm given has nothing to do as to when a fetus-baby is considered a human, and in fact is only a quote to support the belief that our lives have some fate behind them; that quote is also explaining how the human is a complex creature. In fact, that quote nowhere in it says that the fetus-baby talking has had life breathed into it yet, and is only talking about how it's being FORMED inside the mother, thanks to God.
Anybody else agree with me?Anybody agree with me that the Bible should not have clenching control over any uterus? mad
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:30 pm
20 Shades of Crazy Anybody agree with me that the Bible should not have clenching control over any uterus? mad Here, here! It will be the greatest tragedy known once a religious text holds dominion over a person. (haiguyz i'm alive!)
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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:24 pm
S late has some stuff about Rick Warren, too, that goes beyond the anti-gay prospects that everyone is focusing on.
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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:39 pm
*shudders* Hitchens is not exactly a champion of women's rights or equality...
That said, he makes some good points. I didn't even know about Warren saying that Jews won't go to heaven!
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Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:18 pm
W hich is probably why he didn't bring up the anti-choice part. But anyway, sorry, I don't know about the author at all, and I was just really focusing on the story.
He can't be as bad as this "man of the year," can he?
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