Drow Growth and Aging

[Draevir]

This is a thread to discuss (and keep a record for later reference for members) about drow growth and aging.

There are different sources which provide different information, but I think it's handy if we all use similar conventions so our drow ages and concept of them don't conflict too much.

I will post references from various sources I have showing typical age progression for drow with explanations. I hope others will do the same.  

[Draevir]

Okay, to start, I will go to the beginning, with the 1st Edition Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Dungeon Master's Guide (1979), since this is the first source any of the later sources derived their information from.

In this tome, Age Categories are recorded as follows:

Drow Elves Age
Young Adult: 50-100 (14 - 20 human years)
Mature: 101 - 400 (21 - 40 human years)
Middle-Aged: 401 - 600 (41 - 60 human years)
Old: 601-800 (61 - 90 human years)
Venerable: 801 - 1000 (91 - 120 human years)

So given this info, if you meet a drow who was 101, he or she would be physically fully grown and appear as healthy and vital as a human 21 year old. If you met a 50 year old drow, you would be encountering a lower-mid teenager.

One thing I don't like about this source is that it makes wood elves and drow elf age progression very close, but high and gray elves progression is much slower.

In my opinion all elves (regardless of sub-race) should progress at a similar rate physically.  

[Chieftain Twilight]

confused i've mentioned already that i don't agree with a perfect ratio/parralell prgression of age in coparison to human age... elves bodies should be slower to mature, i' not so sure how slow yet, but their minds should be the same rate as humans. except much more dramatically feminine. after all, they ARE experiencing the world at the same rate. we'd only hav eto take into account that they'd be treated as children muh longer, which would limit what exactly they are exposed to and learn, which yeah, does slow the mental maturity down a bit... it is all very complicated stuff, but i am sur eit can be calculated easily. if you like i can take it upon myself to research it and display some ideas of prgressions? i would like to have a discussion on what we all think is the best physical maturity rate first.  

[Draevir]

prince romanov

confused i've mentioned already that i don't agree with a perfect ratio/parralell prgression of age in coparison to human age... elves bodies should be slower to mature, i' not so sure how slow yet, but their minds should be the same rate as humans. except much more dramatically feminine. after all, they ARE experiencing the world at the same rate. we'd only hav eto take into account that they'd be treated as children muh longer, which would limit what exactly they are exposed to and learn, which yeah, does slow the mental maturity down a bit... it is all very complicated stuff, but i am sur eit can be calculated easily. if you like i can take it upon myself to research it and display some ideas of prgressions? i would like to have a discussion on what we all think is the best physical maturity rate first.

I agree with you entirely Romanov, and I like your perspective on it. Yeah, basically, elves would mature intellectually rather rapidly, however, their "emotional indpendance" which we equate with maturity might very well be affected by their slower physical maturation, thus, making them "kids" in the dependant sense of the word until they were physically grown enough.

Their much longer life span means that they are going to have less of a sense of "urgency" in accomplishing anything significant as well. Elves will take their time in my opinion when approaching anything they wish to master, whereas humans will tackle some career objective quickly and take the bull by the horns in comparison. Elves will seem aloof to what they would consider the petty temporal concerns of the shorter lived races; they have all the time in the world. wink

The above age progression is merely the AD&D 1st edition one. As soon as I can find other examples, I will post them, or if others do, they should as well.

Also note, the above age progression does not parallel human in direct ratio. Gygax apparently agreed with you that it should not, eh? smile I love Gygax, may he rest in peace.  

[selune dusk]

heh... i am glad. ^_^ perhaps then, i'll take a closer look at the Gygax chart and see if it fits with what i had in mind. ^_^  

[Draevir]

Okay, here's another chart, from the source: AD&D 2nd Edition "The Complete Book of Elves" authored by Colin McComb (1992).

This source applied to all existing settings (including Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk) at the time.

Drow Age Categories:

Childhood 1-49
Adolescence 50-79
Adulthood 80-139
Middle Age 140-189
Old Age 190-224
Venerable Age 225
Maximum Age 225 + 3-300 (up to 525)

I greatly dislike this source's concept of aging, as it makes not just drow, but all other elven sub-races much shorter lived in the later age categories.  

[Chieftain Twilight]

i can realy understand that. yes, it seems that the physical maturation rate of 1st edition is much more believable, and much more fantastic. simultaneously fantastic and believable is just what iw ould go for. now, to find the proper rate of mental and emotional maturation.  

[Draevir]

prince romanov

i can realy understand that. yes, it seems that the physical maturation rate of 1st edition is much more believable, and much more fantastic. simultaneously fantastic and believable is just what iw ould go for. now, to find the proper rate of mental and emotional maturation.

I think of it like this; I myself, look about ten years younger than I am physically. Basically when I encounter people my age, they look much older and act much older than me. My maturation is much slower than average. Thus, in my mind, I get along better with people 10 years younger, and like to do the things they do. Instead of hanging out with thirty-somethings, I hang out more with twenty-somethings, and unless I tell them, they don't even know I'm older. In fact, 27's and up usually assume I'm younger than them. Anyhow, I still have experienced ten years of life more than them. All my relatives tend to live longer than the average insurance acturarial tables, lol. Must be the small amount of irish in us. My mom is the same way, she gets mistaken for about 10 years younger herself. So anyhow, imagine that ten years expanded to like 100 years. It would just be an extreme example. You are a 100 year old elf, and basically you run into 20-something humans who automatically assume you are not as mature as they are, because you don't look it. Whenever you encounter humans, you will probably defer to them because to try to convince them of your experience is folly; they just won't believe you or get it. As an elf, when with humans, you will probably just play their game, laugh, and enjoy with a "knowing" smile. After all, you're going to live much longer than they, and you're not in a hurry to enlighten those who won't live past 100 anyhow. To you, they will be short-lived distractions for you to enjoy briefly. As to other elves, you will treat those who are bigger and stronger than you (your elders) just like a human would treat his or hers. Your maturity will always be a child's when dealing with 'adults' even if you are 75 years old. But, when dealing with those who are physically the same as you, your maturity is more realized. It's just like humans. Kids will act mature to each other once they reach their teens, but when faced with an adult, will revert to the "child" role. It's basic psychology actually. So, I would say, maturity follows physical age... because the ability to work and provide for a family depends on physical maturation. Until that point is reached, their is no reason to mature emotionally into independance.  

[Chieftain Twilight]

Draevir

prince romanov

i can realy understand that. yes, it seems that the physical maturation rate of 1st edition is much more believable, and much more fantastic. simultaneously fantastic and believable is just what iw ould go for. now, to find the proper rate of mental and emotional maturation.

I think of it like this; I myself, look about ten years younger than I am physically. Basically when I encounter people my age, they look much older and act much older than me. My maturation is much slower than average. Thus, in my mind, I get along better with people 10 years younger, and like to do the things they do. Instead of hanging out with thirty-somethings, I hang out more with twenty-somethings, and unless I tell them, they don't even know I'm older. In fact, 27's and up usually assume I'm younger than them. Anyhow, I still have experienced ten years of life more than them. All my relatives tend to live longer than the average insurance acturarial tables, lol. Must be the small amount of irish in us. My mom is the same way, she gets mistaken for about 10 years younger herself. So anyhow, imagine that ten years expanded to like 100 years. It would just be an extreme example. You are a 100 year old elf, and basically you run into 20-something humans who automatically assume you are not as mature as they are, because you don't look it. Whenever you encounter humans, you will probably defer to them because to try to convince them of your experience is folly; they just won't believe you or get it. As an elf, when with humans, you will probably just play their game, laugh, and enjoy with a "knowing" smile. After all, you're going to live much longer than they, and you're not in a hurry to enlighten those who won't live past 100 anyhow. To you, they will be short-lived distractions for you to enjoy briefly. As to other elves, you will treat those who are bigger and stronger than you (your elders) just like a human would treat his or hers. Your maturity will always be a child's when dealing with 'adults' even if you are 75 years old. But, when dealing with those who are physically the same as you, your maturity is more realized. It's just like humans. Kids will act mature to each other once they reach their teens, but when faced with an adult, will revert to the "child" role. It's basic psychology actually. So, I would say, maturity follows physical age... because the ability to work and provide for a family depends on physical maturation. Until that point is reached, their is no reason to mature emotionally into independance.

huh... that is interesting.... so basically, it all depends on teh audience?  

[Draevir]

prince romanov

Draevir

prince romanov

i can realy understand that. yes, it seems that the physical maturation rate of 1st edition is much more believable, and much more fantastic. simultaneously fantastic and believable is just what iw ould go for. now, to find the proper rate of mental and emotional maturation.

I think of it like this; I myself, look about ten years younger than I am physically. Basically when I encounter people my age, they look much older and act much older than me. My maturation is much slower than average. Thus, in my mind, I get along better with people 10 years younger, and like to do the things they do. Instead of hanging out with thirty-somethings, I hang out more with twenty-somethings, and unless I tell them, they don't even know I'm older. In fact, 27's and up usually assume I'm younger than them. Anyhow, I still have experienced ten years of life more than them. All my relatives tend to live longer than the average insurance acturarial tables, lol. Must be the small amount of irish in us. My mom is the same way, she gets mistaken for about 10 years younger herself. So anyhow, imagine that ten years expanded to like 100 years. It would just be an extreme example. You are a 100 year old elf, and basically you run into 20-something humans who automatically assume you are not as mature as they are, because you don't look it. Whenever you encounter humans, you will probably defer to them because to try to convince them of your experience is folly; they just won't believe you or get it. As an elf, when with humans, you will probably just play their game, laugh, and enjoy with a "knowing" smile. After all, you're going to live much longer than they, and you're not in a hurry to enlighten those who won't live past 100 anyhow. To you, they will be short-lived distractions for you to enjoy briefly. As to other elves, you will treat those who are bigger and stronger than you (your elders) just like a human would treat his or hers. Your maturity will always be a child's when dealing with 'adults' even if you are 75 years old. But, when dealing with those who are physically the same as you, your maturity is more realized. It's just like humans. Kids will act mature to each other once they reach their teens, but when faced with an adult, will revert to the "child" role. It's basic psychology actually. So, I would say, maturity follows physical age... because the ability to work and provide for a family depends on physical maturation. Until that point is reached, their is no reason to mature emotionally into independance.

huh... that is interesting.... so basically, it all depends on teh audience?

Yeah, basically according to my undeducated (but not stupid) interpretation of popular psychology self help books (lol), it IS dependant on the audience.

On a side note, if I continue to spend all my time on TEH INTERWEBZ, i'm not going to look younger than my age for much longer, haha. I seem to have misplaced my daily exercise and healthy eating habits, oh noes!

You might also think in terms of orc aging too. They reach physical maturity at like 10 if I remember right (I could be slightly off)? Say as humans, we meet 10 year old orcs. We're going to treat them like adults because One: they are big and muscled. Two: they have nasty looking sharp implements which they won't hesitate to use and their short violent lives have geared them towards taking what they want from those weaker than themselves. We're going to respect them as much as we have to in order to deal with them safely. We're certainly not going to say "there there little cute orc kiddies, why don't you run along to daycare now before I tell your mommy you're causing trouble." Elves would treat humans the same way humans treat orcs in this scenario (typically).  

[Chieftain Twilight]

Draevir

prince romanov

Draevir

prince romanov

i can realy understand that. yes, it seems that the physical maturation rate of 1st edition is much more believable, and much more fantastic. simultaneously fantastic and believable is just what iw ould go for. now, to find the proper rate of mental and emotional maturation.

I think of it like this; I myself, look about ten years younger than I am physically. Basically when I encounter people my age, they look much older and act much older than me. My maturation is much slower than average. Thus, in my mind, I get along better with people 10 years younger, and like to do the things they do. Instead of hanging out with thirty-somethings, I hang out more with twenty-somethings, and unless I tell them, they don't even know I'm older. In fact, 27's and up usually assume I'm younger than them. Anyhow, I still have experienced ten years of life more than them. All my relatives tend to live longer than the average insurance acturarial tables, lol. Must be the small amount of irish in us. My mom is the same way, she gets mistaken for about 10 years younger herself. So anyhow, imagine that ten years expanded to like 100 years. It would just be an extreme example. You are a 100 year old elf, and basically you run into 20-something humans who automatically assume you are not as mature as they are, because you don't look it. Whenever you encounter humans, you will probably defer to them because to try to convince them of your experience is folly; they just won't believe you or get it. As an elf, when with humans, you will probably just play their game, laugh, and enjoy with a "knowing" smile. After all, you're going to live much longer than they, and you're not in a hurry to enlighten those who won't live past 100 anyhow. To you, they will be short-lived distractions for you to enjoy briefly. As to other elves, you will treat those who are bigger and stronger than you (your elders) just like a human would treat his or hers. Your maturity will always be a child's when dealing with 'adults' even if you are 75 years old. But, when dealing with those who are physically the same as you, your maturity is more realized. It's just like humans. Kids will act mature to each other once they reach their teens, but when faced with an adult, will revert to the "child" role. It's basic psychology actually. So, I would say, maturity follows physical age... because the ability to work and provide for a family depends on physical maturation. Until that point is reached, their is no reason to mature emotionally into independance.

huh... that is interesting.... so basically, it all depends on teh audience?

Yeah, basically according to my undeducated (but not stupid) interpretation of popular psychology self help books (lol), it IS dependant on the audience.

On a side note, if I continue to spend all my time on TEH INTERWEBZ, i'm not going to look younger than my age for much longer, haha. I seem to have misplaced my daily exercise and healthy eating habits, oh noes!

You might also think in terms of orc aging too. They reach physical maturity at like 10 if I remember right (I could be slightly off)? Say as humans, we meet 10 year old orcs. We're going to treat them like adults because One: they are big and muscled. Two: they have nasty looking sharp implements which they won't hesitate to use and their short violent lives have geared them towards taking what they want from those weaker than themselves. We're going to respect them as much as we have to in order to deal with them safely. We're certainly not going to say "there there little cute orc kiddies, why don't you run along to daycare now before I tell your mommy you're causing trouble." Elves would treat humans the same way humans treat orcs in this scenario (typically).

this makes me have to do alot of thinking now. ^_^  

[DemonToastNinja]

Sorry to bud in like this, but for example: lets just say im a 14 year old human, how old would i be in drow years?  

[Maku the Dark]

DemonToastNinja

Sorry to bud in like this, but for example: lets just say im a 14 year old human, how old would i be in drow years?

Perhaps 14 years old?

While time will feel different from creatures who are short-lived (like Humans and Halfings) and those who aren't (other races), time still passes the same way. So I believe the maturity of a 14 year old Drow is no different than a Human. *shrugs* Though I'm sure a 59 year old Drow might be considered a Child by Drow society standards, I find it a bit difficult to believe a creature living for 59 years not gain some measure of maturity to be beyond that of a child...

Then again Drow society is very different than your average society. *shrugs*

So maybe 40ish to 50ish might be acceptable, but yeah...As listed earlier, books say most Drows are consider a "child" between 0 to 49 years old.  

[DemonToastNinja]

o......that makes sense then  

[Orawan]

I'd rather base aging off of R.A. Salvatore's books.. I know it's about the same but he's technically the expert on the matter.