Spay/Neuter and Judaism

[~Spirit of Dragons~]

So, in the recent outbreak of spaying and neutering our pets, I was just wondering how practicing and not so practicing Jews reacted to this. Since by Orthodox standards, it is not allowed to castrate a human or animal unless for lifesaving reasons.

I know these two practicing Jews. One is Orthodox, and fought like hell with the breeder to not make him neuter the dog (he won; bear in mind: he does not want to breed or show, he just would not neuter his dog for obvious religious reasons). Another is Conservative, who bought a dog on a spay/neuter contract and fulfilled it, and has no regrets.

If you have a dog or any other pet, did you fix it? If you were getting a pet, would you fix it? What is your outlook towards spay/neuter?  

[~Spirit of Dragons~]

LordNeuf

There's a rule in Leviticus (24:22) that says that animal's to be sacrificed cannot be neutered. This is complemented by the Talmudic rule prohibiting animal cruelty. That made the ancient rabbis declare that it is prohibited to castrate an animal.

However, it can be debated that today, spaying and neutering your pets is not only a harmless procedure when done correctly, but the animal is happier and healthier because of it.

So this boils down to interpreting the message from the Talmud and how it relates to modern day, Is it a slight against HASHEM to neuter your cat? your dog? your horse? or is it a slight to domesticate an animal and leave that little bundle of hormones attached that makes them act as they would in the wild? Aggressive? Territorial? Instinct driven?

So it's a question of interpretation. One side says "It's better for the animal to be neutered." the other side says "No it's not what HASHEM wants us to do."

So the answer is a definite maybe on getting your pets fixed.

I don't know about horses and cats, but certainly unfixed dogs do not necessarily get wild, aggressive, territorial or instinct driven (what does "instinct driven" mean, anyway?). Why are fixed animals such angels? All this "healthier and happier" stuff is propaganda, and beside the point here.

As for its being a harmless procedure... let me put it this way: have you ever been to India? Does the word "eunuch" mean anything to you? Go to India, see some eunuchs, and then come back and tell me it's a harmless procedure.

Essentially, what you're saying is that it's okay for Jews nowadays to go along with the prevailing fad, which is to spay/neuter at the moment. Does everyone here agree with that?  

[~Spirit of Dragons~]

LordNeuf

~Spirit of Dragons~

I don't know about horses and cats, but certainly unfixed dogs do not necessarily get wild, aggressive, territorial or instinct driven (what does "instinct driven" mean, anyway?). Why are fixed animals such angels? All this "healthier and happier" stuff is propaganda, and beside the point here.

As for its being a harmless procedure... let me put it this way: have you ever been to India? Does the word "eunuch" mean anything to you? Go to India, see some eunuchs, and then come back and tell me it's a harmless procedure.

Essentially, what you're saying is that it's okay for Jews nowadays to go along with the prevailing fad, which is to spay/neuter at the moment. Does everyone here agree with that?

Ack! I got hit with a loaded question.

How to respond... how to respond... Well sarcasm and sardonic responses are my fortay, so here goes.

Ok, you just called spaying and neutering propaganda and a "prevailing fad," either by intention or implication. considering spay is an old roman term which we get the word "spade" from, I don't consider it a fad but a time tested practice in animal population control.

You mentioned other parts of the world, and you mention you don't know about horses.

Ever seen what happens when two stallions get penned in the same corral? They fight, they fight to the death, on instinct. Why? cause their bundle of hormones tells them that the other horse wants to have the mare and there's only one way to settle it.

And once they start, the only thing you can really do is sit down, watch and make bets. Like they do in China.

http://www.muratersoy.net/nl/images/stories/Horse_fight_in_S_China.jpg

and the Philippines
http://bothhands.mu.nu/archives/Horse Fighting 3

And those were the NICER pictures of that.

These horses aren't trained, they're not taught to go after the other horse, they do it on instinct. That's what I meant.

So yeah... Indian Eunuchs... Well lets see, they're transexuals, transvestites, and are society's great whipping post, having to eek out an existance as prostitutes and beggars.... and they choose this as a lifestyle. No one is forced to be aruvani in India.

http://www.thewe.cc/contents/more/archive/aruvani.html

As for Jews casting off the old ways for modern society's benifets, see how many Jews keep glatt kosher and how many drive their cars to temple.

Also, if you want to make a statement about Spaying or Neutering, just say what's on your mind, and do your own research on what we are going to say, rather than to load up a question and wait for someone to rise to the bait.


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and

All right, this just went waaaay off-topic. This isn't a spay/neuter debate thread (and I hate to tell you this, but I don't consider horses as pets). This is a thread on what the Jewish outlook is on spay/neuter.

Obviously where you are, Jews aren't all that Orthodox, I guess.

And, last but not least, it's pretty clear you've never been to India, but just read a lot of stuff about it, if that's really all you know about eunuchs.

Whichever way, I think I got your outlook on this. So let us cease further arguments and remain on friendly terms.  

[~Spirit of Dragons~]

LordNeuf

~Spirit of Dragons~

And, last but not least, it's pretty clear you've never been to India, but just read a lot of stuff about it, if that's really all you know about eunuchs.

And how exactly would you know about, where I've been and who I haven't because I glanced over a topic and gave you small information, and you accuse me of ignorance. If you don't want this to be the focus of the topic, I suggest you stop bringing it up and stop talking smack to me about not knowing what's going on there.

Well, I guess attack is the best defense. What are you getting so hot under the collar about? Did I offend you in some way?

If you honestly think that eunuchs are transexuals, transvestites, and got themselves castrated voluntarily, then that pretty much screams that you've never been to India. I have been, and I know what I'm talking about.

Whichever way, as I said, I don't want to argue anymore. I got what your outlook is, and that's what I wanted.