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 Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:50 am
[EDIT]: March 7, 2009This thread has been locked due to the fact that discussion was started by a member who was falsifying her identity as well as her sources and "personal experience". Because of this, it has been decided that the thread was likely only begun for the sake of drama-mongering. It will be moved to the recycling bin at a later date. Thank you. Your Crewmembers. Ok - so I have been getting quite frustrated over the past few months, talking with some American Lolita. So many seem to have this wierd idea of lolita in Japan, and I just want to clear some of these Idea's Up..
First, I seen this in the "What is EGL" part of another forum - how many of you have read it before? I love this poem, esspecially the end. i really want you all to read it carefully and think as you read what I have to say.
I want to become a lolita, you say.
So become one, I reply.
What can I do to look like a lolita?
I have no words with which to reply to this.
You need a headdress, don't you? And a pannier.
Is this coordinate strange?
Is it not wrong for lolita?
Why do you want to do lolita?
Because it's trendy, because my friends do it...
If that's the case, you have no right to wear lolita.
If you just do what the others do, you will look like a lolita.
But I want you to think about something.
Who do you live for?
You think you want to be yourself, but you are afraid of isolation.
You yell that you want to be free, but you take comfort in following convention.
When you are praised for something you don't even feel comfortable with, are you really satisfied?
Girls who wear Vivienne Westwood but don't even know the Sex Pistols.
Even when wearing a jersey, a princess is a princess.
My lolita rules are mine alone.
So you are the only one who can find your own lolita rules.
My god and your god are different, aren't they?
There are angels who wear elegant dresses and play tamborines,
But there are also angels wearing armor and carrying swords whose job it is to fight.
I can't answer your question.
But there are a lot of hints all around you.
You just haven't noticed yet.
What you feel is right is your answer.
Sew frills onto the hem of your heart!
Put a tiara on top of your soul!
Have pride.
By
Takemoto Novala
Some of you may or may not understand why people started dressing lolita in the first place here in Japan. People wanted to be able to express themselves.
Japan in the past, and even now is quite pushy. Almost all schools have uniforms and you as a teen are expected to be the best at everything. This means dressing "proper" and acting in a very reserved way.
This is where most Japanese fashion started - and why many figures like Mana began to dress like this. Every time is see a "Histoy of Lolita" it says nothing about the need to be different. It almost always starts with something about Mana creating the fashion... but really it was around before then. When Mana started - it caught on fast because people began to realize that they too could express themselves.
Oh course this is not just for lolita - MANY fashions, including cosplay though it is not really a fashion - caught on because of this. That is why you wont acctually see that many girls where lolita everyday - its more of a weekend thing or just when you go to harajuku. Some girls will have their everyday clothes inspired by lolita - but some girls dress completely different!
Back to the poem - there is no rules for lolita in Japan - unlike what I have been seeing on many American Lolita forums. "That skirt is too colorful" "That shirt dosnt match" "To many acessories!!"
ITS CRAZY!
I'm not asking you all to change your styles - as long as that is really how you want to express yourselves. I see girls asking on here - do have hae to stop smoking? Can I swear? YES YOU CAN! It's your life - your expression YOUR FASHION! Do what you want with it - dont do it just because someone said you cant be lolita unless you do. As long as you think its lolita, then fine then. Don't worry about others "putting a bad name to lolita" because it dosn't matter what other people think.
In japan, Lolita's are often the center of many jokes, ect. But no one here really cares now do we? We are on midday shows that mothers watch and we are portrayed as being silly or crazy girls. Just like Ganguro girls are seen as not caring about their future and beeing sex crazy - which some may be - but not all right?
Anyway - if you guys have questions you can try to contact me on gaia but I dont come on often anymore.
My e-mail is [emailremoved] - which I answer alot more but not everyday. Im happy to answer questions but don't e-mail me to diss me - I'm just telling it how it is. I know some people here understand and agree with me - but I still see some of the girls I want to target with this message.
thanks
Yuki Nekomiya
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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:37 am
I do understand where you're coming from on this topic, and I'm sure that you are aware about how some things get lost in translation, not just literally. There are a lot of girls who do worry about "Is this Lolita?" and the like because, well... Sometimes, I ask myself that, so in the case that somebody were to ask me, "What are you wearing?", I would answer with full-baked lolita. I'm short of many resources, so even after a year and a half, my wardrobe is still half-baked.
What I'm trying to get at is lolita doesn't have the exact same meaning to the two parties seperated by the Pacific; the message may have become distorted crossing the pond. I belive this is rooted far back to our cultures. Manners aren't as strict here, and not many of us have to wear a uniform. As you describe it, Quote: When Mana started - it caught on fast because people began to realize that they too could express themselves.
This is when one of us descides to break away from a long-standing unity and still belong to a group of different concepts. I'll use myself as an example. Let's say I'm about to dress full lolita, yes, I do need to calm my nerves for the day ahead of me while there still is no petticoat. One thing I find myself asking myself in a full-body mirror goes like this -- "Am I poorly representing the group in which I find so much comfort and belonging in?". Lolita should be a personal statement about who you are, not the girls in Japan. If that means making your own because brand doesn't fit, go for it. If you just want a pair of comfy pajamas, I'm right there with you. Lolita is like a girl's head of hair almost; you can flaunt it or cut it short, dye it, bleach it, and the like. You could even cut it all off if you wanted to to. Why? Because hair is an original, individual statement.
This was entirely figurative, however, and all during this disclosure, I was mainly just musing my thoughts. ^^; I'm sorry about all that rambling, but I think it boils down to self-justification because of today's society. It is entirely possible that my deduction is true or false. So now, I just wait for a veteran to come by and say, "What are you talking about!?"...
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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:38 pm
I’m going to try to keep this short and to the point (edit: sorry I guess I failed at that). Yes what you say is wonderful in theory, but everything has rules. Lolita needs some rules so as not to become complete anarchy. I am for individuality. I am not for someone putting on a hot pink petticoat outside of their grandmother's exercise pants from the 80's and dollar store cat ears and calling it Lolita. Perhaps you have yet to meet a person like this. There is a difference between freedom of expression and getting dressed in the dark.
Lolita stands for more than just individuality. Take a look at Momoko from Kamikaze girls. Would she say that she was just expressing herself? To her Lolita was a part of her "spirit" so to speak and with it came along rules. Why not dress up to the best of your ability if you’re making a statement about a VERY proper movement in history. As for girls in Japan, I don’t see much of a difference except they probably are better at keeping opinions to themselves. Also I don’t think there are as many people in Japan who do stuff like aforementioned exercise pants girl. I think that American Lolitas have voiced stronger opinions on stricter rules because of some of the things they run across. I think generally people who wear totally botched Lolita like aforementioned exercise pants girl don’t do it to creatively express themselves, but to draw attention. There are so many attention starved messed up children in America who have learned that the best way to function is to be as loud as possible and be noticed. I think because of the media, different parenting skills, excess of wealth, ect. differences occur in the way people, who are attracted to Lolita, act from Japan and America.
Lolita is not just free expression, it is rules, it is structure, there is criticism. Have you read a Japanese version of the GLB, have you wondered why they make it. It is because something so creative needs something to tie it together so things don’t fall into chaos. Some people can get away with being creative because they have a natural knack for fashion. Yuri Neko, you seem to be able to get dressed looking good, you have an eye for putting together an outfit. Unfortunately there are others out there who need guidance because they lack this talent.
I’m not even sure if I’m going the way I want to with this, but the poem doesn’t just say Lolita should be free. It says it should mean something to you, and if it does mean something to you, you should try your best to look your best and act in a dignified manner. This poem, like the fashion, like any fashion says too things: you must be free and creative, and there must be rules. It’s an Oxymoron, its like black and white, freedom and rules but that is the way things have to be. People should be civil and people should creative but Lolita can’t become just anything. If you really look at Novala’s works then you begin to see that he often expresses how hypocritical the fashion he loves is. Lolita is an escape from one set of rules and into another. Lolita ideals are nothing but silly dreams, like rococo poetry, beautiful, seemingly meaningful, but substance less (to some extent). You can think holes through it. There has to be a balance or else the lines used to define Lolita will be blurred into such obscurity that it will not exist anymore.
I’m sorry I sort of rambled even though I tried not to. None of my opinions expressed in this post are definite. I think its interesting how our "society" not just on gaia but all over the internet, all over the world, has developed to mirror a multiple party political system, lol :3
I’m not sure If I got out what I really wanted to say but it would be nice if you all don’t TL;DR razz
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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:58 pm
To kind of clarifty what I do and dont like:
Lolitas can swear, you can smoke( although I dont recomend it) you dont have to change yourself. I have no problem with this. You can change up your outfits. You can be punky, sweet, guro or whatever.
Just dont do things half assed. Dont just kind of like it, LOVE it. Yearn for the clothes like you would for a lover. Put all your HEART into it. If you want to dress Lolita then make an effort to dress nice. If you want to dress Lolita make an effort to not act crazy.
You can swear, party hard, shoot it up and wake up in a strangers bed. But for god sakes if you talk to yourself, shower only once a week and are fashion retarded then get some therapy, use some soap and get someone else to pick out outfits for you before you start calling yourself a Lolita.
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Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:07 pm
-C'est la lune qui conduit la danse...-Last three comments basically summed up my opinions on the matter, especially Fiara's; unfortunately I may run off at the mouth with this, since it is a very heated discussion and it also has some meaning to those who don't know what to say, and don't know what to do with themselves when it comes to finding yourself and your own style. First off, there's a difference between a fashion style and your style. You want to be Lolita? You want to dress Punk? You want to be Gyaru? You want to dress preppy? You want to be a Gangsta? Ok. Each thing has a certain look to it, no matter how 'free' the style claims to be, both in it's physical manner, and the emotional, and introverted manner. Just like business suits have a certain look to it, so does other styles. And most will look at quality, construction, silhouette, and the works when it comes to it. The thing I find with having a 'style' is not simply taking a fashion style and making it your own; the point is not to commit yourself to a fashion style and replace everything else in order to become "more" of the image of the style. It's about learning about the style, growing attached to it, master the look, and then when you know what you're doing, that's when you take that style and emulate it into your own personal style. Not the other way around. And that is what is often mistaken by the weak screams of "elitism", because people don't even think deep enough to realize that you cannot simply call "Lolita" your own and make changes to it the way you want. YOUR STYLE is what is your own and is what you can make into you want. In the meantime Lolita will still be the same. Lolita will be Lolita because of the quality, the influences, the 'silhouette', and it will still be that way in 10 years time. Just like people who are overtly punk, or normally dress Gyaru and may sport mohawks or tattoos, gauges and the sort, in communities like EGL on Livejournal, personal style is very much open, but if you want to get into purely the Lolita clothing, you will get taught and advised and how to do full-out Lolita WITH your look, without being advised of losing the tattoos or losing the mohawk. Want to emulate your own personal style with Lolita? When you know how to dress lolita, you will teach yourself to do so. But if you want to show off your "own style" and it is nothing like Lolita, we won't be concerned because it is a Lolita board. As far as we have heard from Maki and Asuka from Angelic Pretty, there are a lot of girls who dislike those Gyaru who dress in Lolita because they are often seen as dirty and smuts, while here in the Western community, most who talk about it are okay with the style, and a lot even read magazines like Ageha. Dealing with personality, fashion should NEVER change your personality, but enhance your knowledge and awareness within fashion, history, and as well as your lifestyle. "Lifestyle Lolitas" should not be a group of girls who once dropped their favorite things in the world to change into "dolls" or "princesses" by following a Victorian and/or Rococo mannerisms and traditions. That is not the true Lolita 'lifestyle' due to the fact that 1) Victorian and Rococo lifestyles were not a matter of choice, or a lifestyle dictated by a fashion style; the way they acted back then was how society -was-, frilly dresses or no. That is how girls and women were raised to be, to follow the man, and quite frankly, that contradicts what some of the main reasons why Lolita is being worn. Some girls really are grown to like that style, and that's not a problem. But when you change yourself, it's a different story. "Lolita Lifestyle" = Your lifestyle + Lolita. It can be how you go on your everyday life as a Lolita, or how Lolita has influenced (INFLUENCED, not overtaken) your way of life, and your personal style. In my case, Lolita was an eye-opener for me. It exposed me more to fashion in general; through Lolita I found myself liking other things like some couture, and other high-fashion styles, as well as other Japanese trends such as deko-den, the deco-nail craze, the sweets jewelry craze, as well as Himegyaru, which led me into liking Gyaru in general, and from there on. Lolita helped me gain the knowledge about quality in things in general; the different fabrics, the different qualities of those fabrics, different laces, and from there I learned about the quality in construction in things. And now I'm trying to add it to my own personal style, mix elements of my own personal style together and make different themes with it; mainly Lolita with Urban/Hip-Hop style because that is something I grew up with and love, and I plan to do it when I learn and feel like I know how to do Gyaru, as well as any other fashion style I may take interest in. Many people do it; obviously you do it too, Yuki, when you mix Visual Kei with Lolita, as well as whatever other style you are into. People complain about some of us being catty or 'elitist'? How would you know that I am naturally a b***h, that I curse in every sentence that comes out my mouth? (seriously, New Yorker born and raised!) I don't need to talk in sweet tones or need to comply with the "lolitas must be sweet, quiet, elegant and reserved". I like to tell it how it is, and if it is something annoying, I will get annoyed and it will most likely show, plain and simple. I get crazy with all my other Lolita friends in the NYC/tristate area. I eat Sloppy Joes and hot dogs and burgers and pizza in Lolita; I do not keep to just tea and cookies and cakes (though I love those like hell, too). s**t, despite the whole 'chaste' and virginal look in the fashion, me as a person, I ******** like a goddamn rabbit and I'm not letting a style I'm wearing stop me from doing so (not like I have sex in my stuff, anyways). But I will definitely never have a style take over my life, learning and knowing these things over time. Nor will I use a specific style as a way to promote only myself for attention, with or without falsely knowing much about the style, like others like Carmen Yuen do. -...quand le soleil sera couché dans ton âme froide.-
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Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:14 pm
Amanikitty -C'est la lune qui conduit la danse...-
Nor will I use a specific style as a way to promote only myself for attention, with or without falsely knowing much about the style, like others like Carmen Yuen do.
-...quand le soleil sera couché dans ton âme froide.- I know Carmen quite well and have gone out to a few events with her and even to a few cafe's with her while writing her current book. Yea - I see how she is using the style to promote herself, but she is also promoting that its ok to have a different style than other people. I love her style - she does what she wants with it - thats what its like in japan for the most part. Of course there are ones who like the structure, and there are some that don't, but they don't follow the structure just because they have to, its because they want to. Thats the main Idea i'm getting at here - its ok to have structure, but don't stop yourself from straying from the fashion if thats what you want. Don't keep yourself only lolita just because you only like one or two elements of the fashion, and don't stop yourself from dressing in the fashion just because you smoke, or swear or some other trivial thing.
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Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:31 am
Yuki-Neko90 Amanikitty -C'est la lune qui conduit la danse...-
Nor will I use a specific style as a way to promote only myself for attention, with or without falsely knowing much about the style, like others like Carmen Yuen do.
-...quand le soleil sera couché dans ton âme froide.- I know Carmen quite well and have gone out to a few events with her and even to a few cafe's with her while writing her current book. Yea - I see how she is using the style to promote herself, but she is also promoting that its ok to have a different style than other people. I love her style - she does what she wants with it - thats what its like in japan for the most part. Of course there are ones who like the structure, and there are some that don't, but they don't follow the structure just because they have to, its because they want to. Thats the main Idea i'm getting at here - its ok to have structure, but don't stop yourself from straying from the fashion if thats what you want. Don't keep yourself only lolita just because you only like one or two elements of the fashion, and don't stop yourself from dressing in the fashion just because you smoke, or swear or some other trivial thing.
I know Carmen well too, as well as most of the Western lolita population who hates her, for lying on her site and then contradicting herself in her own posts, and attempting to crash a hard-worked, planned fashion show here in America for attention and then acting like it's all okay. Oh, and let me add the fact that one girl discovered that she had a posting account that was dedicated to writing up multiple posts from "several people" in order to give herself more love and attention. There's a specific reason -why- she isn't in the English Gothic & Lolita Bible yet, when it's easy like pie to be in there. You can go ahead and defend her but if she was really trying to be a saint for those who follow her, she wouldn't act like such an immature child that spews bigotry out of her mouth and can't even take a polite, yet disagreeing comment on her site.
And on top of that, you just sort of went in circles with what I pointed out; it's okay to stray from fashion, but how is she promoting a certain style when she's not even doing the fashion itself? (That's a rhetorical question, btw.) When you stray from fashion you are doing your own style, so how does she have credibility when she doesn't even do the fashion style itself in the proper fashion. What, she points out V.Kei bands and whatnot and brand sites, but that doesn't make her knowledgeable. In her recent blog post she claims how she doesn't claim to be an expert at Gothic Lolita, yet I heard her tell some tourists in public that she is? Well gee, she must be terribly misleading.
-...quand le soleil sera couché dans ton âme froide.-
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Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:06 pm
I sadly must agree with all the comments that have been stated and especially with Amani and Fiaria. I can see why you may be upset about the perception people have over Japanese Lolitas but to be quite sincere they're justified based on experience. There has been numerous times where people have found Japanese Lolita forums where they make in front of American and world-wide Lolita's because they had done things 'differently'. With the last Angelic Pretty event that occurred in the US one thing that stood out to me the most from people's recollection of the interviews is that they were surprised students were dressing Lolita here. They stated that most Lolita's they meet who were serious about the fashion in Japan were working women who could afford the brand to do it right. They were highly happy at how people had dressed so well. Sure a little tweak to Lolita is fine or else Casual Lolita wouldn't exist but completely disregarding the most basic things like the bell shaped skirt by your knees with a mini no longer makes it Lolita. That's if I say I am dressing Goth-ish (not trying to stereo type but just making a slight point here) but decide that for a concert I am going to wear bright a** pink with rainbow crap. Ya I think everyone will thing you're retarded.
As for the topic of Carmen I shall not even touch it because I find no reason to even give that utterly rude, fame whoring woman a time of my words. She gives everyone the wrong perception of Lolita with her atrocious articles, bad fashion sense, and completely rude behavior. She disrespected her fellow Lolita's by crashing the NY Fashion Show and not even bothering to have the common decency to apologize but rather LAUGH about it. I find her actions unexcusable and the fact that she will completely disregard people's comments even disregarding her oh so 'greatness'. She doesn't even promote a different type of 'style'. She once posted a picture of a Kyo from Dir En Grey Cosplay and called it Lolita. Who in the right mind even makes such a connection?
I'm stopping while I'm ahead here and go on a rampage >...<
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Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:13 pm
Thank you, Yuki-Neko90, for your post. I, for one, agree with your sentiment entirely.
Too much of the U.S. Lolita scene focuses on "rules" and "regulations." Every Lolita panel I've been to at conventions has been an hour-long lecture about how you are a failure if you don't wear these certain brands, this certain lace, these stockings. It's ridiculous. Lolita fashion started as a way to dress outside the norm, and to make your own style. Now it's become so commercialized and so elitist that people focus more on putting people down for not wearing what they think they should than encouraging people to experiment.
I make my own clothes, and while I use a great deal of Lolita influence, I would never just diligently copy everything I see on EGL or in the G&L Bibles, because what would be the point? If I wanted to dress like everyone else, I would shop at Forever21 or Kohl's or something.
I understand what you mean about not sacrificing individuality just to try and dress by some arbitrary "rules." Who decides these rules? Who decides what is and isn't Lolita? I think we should decide for ourselves and damn what anyone else says or thinks. We're all weirdos in poofy dresses at the end of the day, so it's very frustrating to see people try and shame people for not meeting these ridiculous standards that don't even matter.
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Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:42 am
I kind of agree with this forum. blaugh Although I do belive that u do have to look cute or sort of baby like to b lolita, because u cant exactly dress in playboy jeans and a short tube top and call that lolita, however i agree that just because u swear or dont wear costum made loli dress u cant call ur self lolita. Yea I suppose that it is just basic feeling if u r loli or not, because when u feel lolita like everyone else will see u that way.
(Sorry i dont make a lot of sence sweatdrop )
Kristyna 4laugh
heart heart heart
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Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:20 pm
People say you keep the whole lolita like personality and some say be who you are, express yourself.
Big sigh to this, just because you are in lolita doesn't mean you can do whatever you freakin what, you're still a human, have some respect at the very most. Don't diss the fashion with your outrageous acts, remain the normal you but have some self respect.
I really don't care what other people do, honestly it's your life your style do whatever you want. But I myself am a very nice happy going person, so you won't be seeing me squatting smoking a cig out in the middle of the city. I have lots of respect for myself and prefer not to do stupid stuff. But if you're just having fun, do it, can't change yourself just because you're wearing lolita style, but just try not to get it dirty ... and don't draw anymore attention to yourself then is needed, or people will be like "She's soo cute in that dress ... but she acts like a 5 year old who had too much sugar"
I don't know where I am getting with this, but there should be some aspects kept with the fashion. Just respect yourself and others.
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Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:04 pm
Agreed with Fiaria. Agreed with Amani. It's been a long standing "rule" in EVERYTHING in life: "Learn the rules, then break some."
I think that this whole "LET'S MAKE A BIG STATEMENT ABOUT ESCAPE" has been done countless times before. Seriously.
You can have all the punk rock spirit in the world, but if you walk up to your friends with their mohawks and studded plaid jackets, and you're wearing something from Angelic Pretty? They're going to call you crazy and tell you to get bent. Sorry. There's a line with how far you can play with the rules to something, before you are no longer allowed to place it under that label.
I am not saying that you can't have fun with your style. But please, for the love of god, call it 'your style.' Your style might be totally awesome, when it's taken as being a personal statment. But don't call it Lolita, if it isn't Lolita. It's a fashion. All fashions have rules. You can have all of the 'spirit' in the world, but a miniskirt with lace along the bottom won't be Lolita, no matter how many 13 year old girls try to convince me otherwise, under the idea that they ~feel~ Lolita.
It's no different than stating the obvious: that a baby pink and white sundress is not goth, abercrombie and fitch is not punk, and h.naoto is not preppy, or hipster, or whatever.
Despite saying that the fashion has rules, I do not condone the idea that to be a good lolita, you have to wear certain brands, or wear only these few specific colors. I support looking GOOD (no outright tacky color combinations. There's tastefully clashing, and then there's tacky) and following the general rules of things like skirt length, skirt fullness (able to accomodate a petticoat), accentuate natural waist, say no to most fetish heels, etc. Mostly, I support wearing something of good quality-- which yes, might mean telling someone that I disagree with their choice of lace, or choice of fabric. Some fabric and lace gives the appearance of a costume, and Lolita is simply meant to be a refined and expensive fashion-- some corners can be cut, others can't. (A suit jacket you buy from Walmart will not look the same as Armani. But you might find a Chinese seamstress who knows what they're doing who can make an Armani look alike for a small fraction of the price-- the pockets might not be functional, but it's not bound to fall apart like Walmart clothing. And you won't be laughed at, at the next high-formal dinner party you go to, for not being dressed up to par).
Also on the note of quality: I'm a seamstress. I'd rather be satisfied in knowing that I produced a beautiful garment of great quality that will last me for a long time. Quality makes clothes last. If someone immediately asks me "Oh, this is homemade, isn't it?" or "Did you buy it at Party City?" I'm going to assume I did it wrong. I don't want them looking at shoddy craftsmanship. I want them to ask me what high end boutique I bought it from.
I agree that people should respect themselves and others. But that has nothing to do with the fashion. That's a matter of being a nice human being. You'll find nice and not-so-nice people anywhere, and it doesn't matter what clothes they wear.
Now. I am incredibly opposed to the common idea among people, mostly those who are new to the fashion (at least, newer when compared to some of us), who think that a Lolita absolutely has to be polite and sweet.
To back this up, I'm a linguist. From a sociolinguistic standpoint, how a person speaks (in this case: in what level of formality) is determined by many factors: Gender, Age, Social Class, Education, Ethnicity, Peer Group. But not by clothes.
If the Japanese are more polite, it has to do with culture. That doesn't mean that Japanese Lolitas are the model example-- they reflect where they're coming from. American Lolitas are going to reflect all of the noisy American stereotypes. Neither one is right or wrong.
It doesn't matter if you put me in Moi meme Moitie, or Baby the Stars Shine Bright, or jeans and a babydoll t-shirt, or hot pants and a tube top, or bondage pants and a buckle shirt. If my way of acting and speech appears to change, it would be because of whatever peer group I was in, who might share my taste in clothing. That's not exactly likely to happen with Lolita groups, who do not see each other daily. So I'm going to keep talking like a middle class, highly educated, white young woman, with a taste for sharp sarcasm. I'm not going to be 'dissing' any of the clothes I might be wearing if I don't immediately conform to them. I won't offend all of the goths in the world if I put on a steel boned corset and lace skirt, but goddess forbid I don't respect it by fully acting the part. Why? Because with as wide as fashions are spread across the world, across social groups, culture, race, etc, no one will agree on how you're supposed to act.
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Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:19 pm
I agree with the general idea of this forum. To each his own. BUT there are exceptions. As one of you said, you can't dress in a bright pink petticoat with tennis shoes and grandma's pants its not only fugly its not lolita, its weird! (my opinion)
I myself was raised with free-thinking, but strick ideas and as I have grown older i have improved upon the ideas my parents taught me. My ideas upon myself are strict. I don't drink, i don't smoke, i don't do drugs, i don't have bunny sex (or sex at all), I'm picky about my men, to sum it up i'm the full definition of a prude, but i find my fashion a way to express my individuality. However, being a prude I find myself bound by MY rules of Lolita. This is where i am happiest, being me!
As Novala said. "So you are the only one who can find your own lolita rules......Have pride." Wear what you like call yourself what you like, i may have something to say but who cares right! I'm just another person, just like the rest of the world. America is the land of jeans and T-shirt, hilbillies, and *****, everyone will have something to say about lolita and if you let the rest of the world bash you idea then you loose individuality and become a jeans-and-T-shirt droid. Anounce to the world "I'm Lolita, you can't stop me!"
As to this Carman woman is, if she's truely a hypocrite BOO on her, but if not y'all are being bitches. Do you know that she truely posted as other ppl on her website. I mean have hardcore evidence, like you were sitting right there when she did it? Don't judge ok. If your a religious person then leave the judging up to God, if your not religious then judging is just plain rude. I don't personally know the woman so I don't care what she does unless it directly effects me. My Lolita idol is Mana-sama, not because his attitude cause I don't know him at all and whatever gossip says i don't follow, but because I think his fasion sence is wonderful! I just look at the cloths and put my heart and soul into my own Lolita rules.
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Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:41 pm
Cushirama I agree with the general idea of this forum. To each his own. BUT there are exceptions. As one of you said, you can't dress in a bright pink petticoat with tennis shoes and grandma's pants its not only fugly its not lolita, its weird! (my opinion) I myself was raised with free-thinking, but strick ideas and as I have grown older i have improved upon the ideas my parents taught me. My ideas upon myself are strict. I don't drink, i don't smoke, i don't do drugs, i don't have bunny sex (or sex at all), I'm picky about my men, to sum it up i'm the full definition of a prude, but i find my fashion a way to express my individuality. However, being a prude I find myself bound by MY rules of Lolita. This is where i am happiest, being me! As Novala said. "So you are the only one who can find your own lolita rules......Have pride." Wear what you like call yourself what you like, i may have something to say but who cares right! I'm just another person, just like the rest of the world. America is the land of jeans and T-shirt, hilbillies, and *****, everyone will have something to say about lolita and if you let the rest of the world bash you idea then you loose individuality and become a jeans-and-T-shirt droid. Anounce to the world "I'm Lolita, you can't stop me!" As to this Carman woman is, if she's truely a hypocrite BOO on her, but if not y'all are being bitches. Do you know that she truely posted as other ppl on her website. I mean have hardcore evidence, like you were sitting right there when she did it? Don't judge ok. If your a religious person then leave the judging up to God, if your not religious then judging is just plain rude. I don't personally know the woman so I don't care what she does unless it directly effects me. My Lolita idol is Mana-sama, not because his attitude cause I don't know him at all and whatever gossip says i don't follow, but because I think his fasion sence is wonderful! I just look at the cloths and put my heart and soul into my own Lolita rules.
There IS evidence, we actually FOUND the account that was being used with the history of ALL the "different people's" post in them. :/
And speaking that I was actually AT the fashion show MODELING when she attempted to crash it, and then seeing her in real life being an a** otherwise, YES, I do know her. Most of those who dislikes her KNOWS how she is. And please, the whole "judging" comment thing is completely stupid. Please, don't bring try bringing religion into basic logic. And since you don't know the situation with the woman, just a word of advice: keep it cute or put it on mute. Please, being calling people bitches for "judging" is really hypocritical. I'm naturally a b***h and love being one, but everyone else who commented are too sweet for that "title".
-...quand le soleil sera couché dans ton âme froide.-
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Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:07 am
@ Cushirama and Amanikitty
Carmen was bragging about crashing the show on her blog, which I think is very telling of her personality.
-removed link to carmens blog-
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