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 Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:21 pm
I'm working quickly, let me summarize:
Elizabeth Bullimer came to our school this past Wednesday and spoke about her time as an NYTimes correspondent, as well as her time on the campaign trail with McCain.
Basically, the following was implied:
McCain campaign, eventually, becomes enamored with the idea of picking a female VP.
Many good female Republican VPs exist. Several names were given. None of them Pro-life.
A Pro-choice VP threatens the Conservative Base.
Solution: Pick a Pro-life Female VP.
Answer: Sarah Palin.
ASSUMPTION: It is a general consensus, outside of this speech, that Sarah Palin was a SIGNIFICANT contribution to McCain's loss (Not THE contribution, not A contribution).
Thus, abortion, ultimately, was what brought Palin to the ticket, and one of the many reasons why the GOP party ultimately fell. As some say, it was THE reason. But many agree, her participation on the ticket helped to disenfranchise the party and bring it under further criticism.
Thoughts? Someone want to attempt to flesh this out more?
It was kind of shell-shocking when I heard it. It was such a hidden issue... but it may have helped to decide this thing all along.
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:04 am
I'm pretty sure there is more to it then that as not everyone supports abortion and there are other issues involved.
To be honest. the whole McCain campaign just seemed like a joke to me. Every time I heard him speak, it was just to either bash or criticize Obama and that was basically it really (from what I saw and heard most of the time anyways), which didn't help him any and Sarah Palin didn't help either.
For one thing, she was found guilty of misusing her power (trying to get her brother in-law fired due to personal issues involving her sisters marriage). That just makes her look worse and McCain just seems too rash when it comes to making decisions (picking Sarah Palin as his VP is just one example).
I agree Sarah Palin contributed to his loss (but not because she was pro-life in my opinion). McCain could of done a better job with his campaign as well. Not wanting to pullout of the war for one thing would hurt America more (that is part of the reason why America is in debt and why a lot of countries are angry at the US).
This is my thoughts that I gather from watching and reading what was going on during the campaign. To be honest, I hardly heard the abortion issue come up (heard it only come up a few times).
Obama wanting better sex education is going to be more popular no matter what side you're on (better sex education means less unintended pregnancies and less abortions also safe sex can help prevent STDs). He talked about wanting better sex education during one of the debates.
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:09 am
Sachiko,
Sarah Palin being pro-life is not significant to the voters, just to the campaign party.
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:32 am
Actually, what reports are you reading? I heard that, in a poll, 60% of people thought Sarah Palin had a -positive- effect on McCain's likability, and only 20% thought that she had a negative effect. Now I can't remember whose poll it was, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't Fox because I think I would have remembered that.
The only reason Sarah Palin was unpopular, among liberals, was because she sounded uneducated and "stupid" to them. The supposed misuse of power she was found guilty of was not substantial enough for Alaska to want to impeach her.
I think in the end, that McCain was a lot more popular than people want to realize; Or at least more people were anti-Obama. Remember, the popular vote was only 52% to 47%. I think the only thing that contributed to Obama's win was the fanatical Obama followers, caused by Obama's charisma, not any negative effect of anything in the McCain campaign.
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:39 pm
I'm 89.9% sure it was his view on economics... America is assuming that the Bush administration's economic tactics caused this recession... ((this is coming from a democrat))
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:41 pm
There were plenty of conservatives who were ready to vote 3rd party if McCain picked a pro-choice VP.
Bottom line, he had to pick a pro-life VP to get his base.
And he got his base. It was a lot closer than it should've been after 8 years.
I'll give you the biggest factor towards McCain's defeat. It is a four lettered word.
Bush.
Palin did what she was supposed to, she got the conservative base showing up and voting McCain. She certainly lost McCain votes, but she gained him votes that other candidates wouldn't have. Mm. He could've also picked a few other people that would've worked, but they would have been equally hated.
Another thing to consider is this: McCain has always had a good relationship with the media because he's pretty moderate, he's affable, he comes across as this nice old man who's done this great service for the country and is continuing to serve as best as he sees fit. And then he succeeded in getting the candidacy for the presidency on the Republican ticket, and to make his people happy, he changed that relationship, not to mention, Obama was a rockstar basically.
Suddenly, he's running a campaign unlike anything he's ever run before. He's never had to work against the media. It's a new kind of race, against a man who has a lot more money to burn, after 8 years of the most hated president of recent times (who happens to share his party).
The fact that he did as well as he did is amazing, quite frankly.
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:45 pm
Quote: I'm 89.9% sure it was his view on economics... America is assuming that the Bush administration's economic tactics caused this recession... ((this is coming from a democrat)) And yeah. There was this and there was McCain voting for the bailout, thus taking the biggest chance he had to distance himself from Bush and making an unpopular move that went completely and entirely against not only his base but his opponent's base (Yes, Obama voted for it too, but Obama didn't need to distance himself from Bush and he's the Messiah so it's forgivable when he makes a mistake like that).
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:15 pm
What I love is that all these people I know who are serious liberals... Hated the bailout. So of course they blame it on the Republicans. ...But it was a liberal idea, headed by the liberals.
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:30 am
I.Am What I love is that all these people I know who are serious liberals... Hated the bailout. So of course they blame it on the Republicans. ...But it was a liberal idea, headed by the liberals. I was against the bailout... *throws confetti* yay lower dollar value. We're doing exactly what Germany did after WWI! Printing more money does not make a country richer *hits government with stick* @Lymelady --- I think it was more of the aspect of him a) Picking a psycho VPC i. She's got this weird vibe to her (though I wouldn't vote on a vibe) ii. It just made it seem like he was trying to pick someone like Hillary Clinton but Conservative (I hate Clinton) b) Past Pro-choice Views i. Even though he claimed to be pro-life, I still don't trust politicians that much to change, it's seen among the past the politicians do this to get more votes c) Public Debates i. He was just outright rude sounding in them... gave him the appearance that he was mean.
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:51 am
...You do realize we're not actually printing money. The money is coming from our taxes, from the federal budget. Basically, the country is taking even more loans to pay for it, going further into debt.
Printing money would definitely be monumentally stupid, but I'm really, really hoping the American government is never so stupid as to do that, given we have history lessons, and even present lessons, showing that that does absolutely nothing good for the economy. I think there's even some countries in Africa going through that now.
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:40 am
But like I said, she gained him as many or more votes than she lost him according to the polls. She was never going to appeal to liberals, she didn't appeal to many moderates. She was on the ticket because McCain does have a more liberal voting record, like you mentioned. Cyanna said it somewhere else, she balanced out the ticket. He absolutely needed a conservative on it, and one who wasn't tainted with RINO. That limits your options because then you have to go outside the Washington pool, so that means a relative newcomer to the public eye unless they're involved in some sort of scandal.
But she's definitely no Hillary, Hill knows when to toe the line and let them lead her around on her leash like a good little girl. Washington breaks you. That's interesting though, what about her reminds you of Hillary?
I think, though, that his past pro-choice stances could be one reason he didn't go after Obama's voting record on abortion. I have a friend who had no idea Obama was pro-choice (even after I told her) and that he supported the FOCA (even after I told her), voted for Obama, then found out later and was just devastated. Which, when I told her, "I warned you," she was like, "I thought that was just right wing scare tactics." If this was an isolated incident I'd be less frustrated, but I've seen other people with similar stories.
The debates honestly bored the hell out of me. It was all the same things they've both been saying for a long time. They were both jabby, which is natural, but neither of them was really witty about it and where's the fun without that? I wish I was old enough to have seen the Reagan debates. Now those are fun.
But yeah. No one likes the bailout. Except the special interest groups who benefited!
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:47 pm
Palin scared me half to death to be honest. She just looks agressive. I didn't know very many of my republican friends that liked her that much.
I don't mean to sound stupid but what is FOCA?
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Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 6:33 pm
Quote: Palin scared me half to death to be honest. She just looks agressive. I didn't know very many of my republican friends that liked her that much. I don't mean to sound stupid but what is FOCA? Not to be offensive, but that's about as good a reason to dislike Palin as it is to like Obama just because he speaks well. Which was the reason I've had given to me by several people who voted Obama. FOCA is the Freedom of Choice Act. Basically, it would reverse -everything- that we've managed to do to at least protect against the abuse of abortion. This includes: Laws requiring parental notification, laws preventing crossing state lines to get an abortion, and the partial-birth abortion ban. Other things too, but I can't think of them right now. The idea is to remove all limitations on the "right" to abortion, before viability.
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:20 am
I.Am Quote: Palin scared me half to death to be honest. She just looks agressive. I didn't know very many of my republican friends that liked her that much. I don't mean to sound stupid but what is FOCA? Not to be offensive, but that's about as good a reason to dislike Palin as it is to like Obama just because he speaks well. Which was the reason I've had given to me by several people who voted Obama. FOCA is the Freedom of Choice Act. Basically, it would reverse -everything- that we've managed to do to at least protect against the abuse of abortion. This includes: Laws requiring parental notification, laws preventing crossing state lines to get an abortion, and the partial-birth abortion ban. Other things too, but I can't think of them right now. The idea is to remove all limitations on the "right" to abortion, before viability. Well... I mean, I wouldn't vote on her attitude, but that's what a lot of my friends thought about her. On top of that, they believed that McCain just used this to make a war between Woman and Race... like the Democratic Primaries and Secondaries... and I don't have many liberal friends, just to make it clear. I think parents/guardians have the right... any other procedure involves parental signature, unless of course the guardian is abusive... then I understand, but even them I'm against abortion... but that just makes more sense.
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Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:06 am
Exactly. And that's why the FOCA is a bad, bad thing all around.
And yet, Obama said it is the first thing he will sign into law.
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