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 Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:59 pm
The underdog. The downtrodden minority-or worse-majority that the "upperclass" spit upon and treat like dirt. The people in this guild know of this all too well. Who is the most abused underdog? Not humans, or even dogs, but farm animals.
Isn't vegatarianism enough? If only it was so. Dairy and eggs are major facilitators of the meat industry. Animals below FDA standards are often ground up and fed to egglaying hens and dairy cows, turning them into cannibals just to save money.
What happens to those who are raised for slaughter? is the pathThey are taken from their parents, injected with hormones, force fed, beaten, trapped in tiny and filthy cages, attacked by other animals drive ncrazy by hormones, staved when they can no longer produce milk or eggs, and finally killed in a gruesome manner.
The usual methods of killing include stuffing male chicks, who are useless to the egglaying industry, into garbage bags and letting them suffocate slowly; throwing bags of chicks into boiling water; electrocution with weak voltages that are cheap but very painful; hanging upside down on a conveyor belt , sometimes in shackels or stuck live onto hooks, and killed by rtoating blades. The last is the cheapest, most common, and cruelest method of all; the animals on the conveyor belt are often injured before they are put on this conveyor belt and suffer through long periods hanging upside down before too-slow blades dull from lack of maintainence attempt to lop off the animals' heads. nearly one third of these animals are not killed instantly and bleed to death, sometimes for hours.
So what, they're "just animals"! So what, you're "just" an animal! If you only care about humans feel free to read up on the abuse of workers in the meat indusry (which is inseperable from the dairy and egg industries). In one study 40% of meat industry workers had unreported injuries at any given time. Their wages are often at or below the minimum wage. 36% of meat workers sustain serious injries. Of course, few of them are guiltless, often injuring the animals or leaving them in pain for days.
What if I don't care about any animal but myself? Then veganism and vegatarianism is still for you! The health benefits of them are innumerable! A third the rate of cancer, a fourth the rate of heart disease, and to become obese you have to be trying! There are entire books dedicated to the benefits of veganism. Look for one or read a few of the websites below. The fuel and resources wasted on animal raising and transport is vast and equvilant to hundreds of thousands of cars running constantly.
But...isn't beef the most consumed product on Earth? Don't we need it? Yes it is, unfortunately, and no, we most certainly dont! It takes ten kilos of grain to produce one kilo of beef, a immensly inefficient way to provide the word with food. Plus, as I have said before, it is not the most healthy form of nutrition and harmful to the enviroment.
I would be a vegan but it's so hard!...Right? No! Maybe fifty years ago you could say that but now it's so easy I can't believe someone could say this! About.com has great recipes and all the websites below have information and tips on substitution, not to mention every grocery store and market on Earth has an abundence of fruits grains, and vegtables. When I went vegatarian it was easy; when I went vegan I didn't even notice!
To summerize all this, I cannot phrase it better than this:
“The question is not,
Can they reason? nor,
Can they talk? but,
Can they suffer?"
-Jeremy Bentham
An Introduction to the Principles of Morals & Legislation, 1789
Sources:
http://www.thegreenguide.com/
http://www.vegan.com/
http://www.goveg.com/vegetarian101.asp
http://www.veganoutreach.org/whyvegan/WhyVegan.pdf (Great PDF for personal information and distribution! It takes a while, though.)
Vegan: The Ethics of Eating by Erik Marcus (This is the best book on veganism that I've read!)
The Vegan Sourcebook by Joanne Stepaniak, M.S.ED.
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Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:28 pm
I hope you had fun writing that, but now let's look at the negative effects of veganism, and the positive effects of meat in ones diet.
A vegan diet does not supply a person with all of their necessary nutrients. Nutrients such as vitamin B12, vitamin D, calcium, iodine and omega-3 fatty acids are generally lacking in vegan diets, and deficiencies of these nutrients can be quite hazardous to ones health if they do not take them in supplement form.
If you don't down three or four multi-vitamins and fish-oil capsules per day, you could be putting yourself at risk.
On to the positive effects of meat.
Whatever else you might say about meat, it is an extremely efficient form of energy storage. The same can not be said about many forms of vegetable matter. With meat, one has to eat less, and with less frequency than with a vegan diet simply because the food they intake has a greater number of calories per given unit of weight.
This means that with an omnivorous diet one is not required to eat as frequently, giving one extra time to spend.
This isn't to mention that the price of a vegan diet is usually greater than that of an omnivorous diet, especially once you take into account the additional price of dietary supplements required in order to maintain optimal health.
I personally encourage a vegetable rich diet, but one devoid of meats (or more specifically, fish) is generally not a healthy as one containing the proper amounts of meat.
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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:00 pm
I like meat. Omega-3 fatty acids are good for the complexion, and makes you hair healthy.
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Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:36 pm
DieNotcis razz lease read before you respond. It takes ten kilos of grain to produce one kilo of beef, not to mention the buildings to house animals and extra machines for slaughter. Meat is not efficent.
I am most certainly not at risk. I only take one multivitamin and an iron pill for anemia and can run four miles a day. According to the blood tests and doctors I see for hormone treatments (which are very stressful on the body and can shorten lives signifigantly) I am in great shape. They have no other vegan patients but say that it had the least negative effects on me in comparison to omnivorous patients. Normally I wouldn't use an anecdote to support something but my situation is that extreme where results really show.
Vitamins are only about ten or fifteen dolars a month and omnivores are supposed to take them anyway. Omnivores rarely get the vitamins they need because they don't eat enought fruits and vegtables.
Loser: That is why vegitarians eat lots of flax seeds and flax oil. Flax oil is used in vegan margarine and crushed flax seeds are often used to replace butter in recipes. Bread made with flax seeds is also good and widely available.
Plus several meat replacements taste better than or identical to meat. =)
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Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:37 pm
Meat replacements do not taste better than meat, I'd take a nice rabbit, cow or giraffe anyday, being a vegetarian is not for me, I love vegetables but I also have a habit of eating anything that moves.
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:02 am
Then you must've been eating a weird brand or food made by the wrong cook. Everyone I've cooked for (mostly omnivores) can't taste the difference between a soydog and a hotdog and most usually think veggieburgers taste better than hamburgers.
And it's still not healthy for you and enviromentally destructive. "Because I'm used to eating this way" is a fallacy, not a valid argument.
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Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:35 pm
DieiNoctis:: I'm a vegetarian. I've been one for about four years now. And you can, in fact, get all of your vitamins and nutrients without eating meat. You just have to know what to eat instead.
You should always take supplements, like you said. But meat is not needed to get all the nutrients the human body requires.
And as for the meat = more energy thing. I don't know how true that is, but one thing I've noticed since I've stopped eating meat and started eating more vegetables and fruits is that I feel better, and I have more energy.
Konata:: Yeah, you must've had some crappy meat substitutes if you don't think they taste better than meat. I can eat a veggieburger by itself, with no buns or toppings, and so can my omnivore friends. But none of them will eat a meat burger by itself.
Vegetarian food is delicious, if it's made right.
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Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:16 pm
Vegetarian food can be delicious if done right, I agree, however so can, meat I eat both sides of the chart and I think neither is better or worse.
oh and its not environmentally destructive, its beneficial, the whole point of eating creatures in the real world is to even things out, if you look at the world you'll find if one creature becomes numerous often predators become more numerous also to even the food chain out, so its beneficial.
Its the circle of life were suited to eat them as they are suited to eat us, you can live without meat but its a lot harder to than not to, and I'm not on about effort or access to stuff the fact remains the meat will give you the nutrients you need easier than buying lots of supplements, also what about years ago when such pills etc didn't exist how were you meant to be a healthy vegetarian then, are is it just ok now, ignoring the past, meat was needed and eaten back then, so why is it different now you can get the nutrients without meat.
You talk of cannibalism as its terrible don't try to place human logic on animals, cannibalism happens in the wild whether you like it or not, its an everyday part of life for certain creatures.
It rare for animals to not be reared properly, its a common myth they are abused etc, plus your most probably listing from word of mouth, have you actually gone round and inspected ten or more random sites, if not don't rely on everything you hear, I could be wrong, but so could you, also many pro people will lie in articles etc to get there points across as would many people who may actually abuse them.
Also even is some are killed inhumanly or reared that way, not all are, so whats wrong with eating the ones killed humanly, reared humanly, and before you say you can't tell, there are plenty of ways to tell, if it has or hasn't.
you talk of it killing animals but surely when you pick a plant you kill that two, you might argue against consciousness of these two things but where does consciousness actually lie, plants and animals both move, live, respire, feed, where is the real difference, isn't it arrogant to say one thing is better than the other they're all part of natures plan.
(just to clarify Many scientific study's show plant's have awareness of surroundings and environment, so they do have awareness.)
Also many of the products you use today use animals to make them such as pharmaceutic capsules, glue and leather, now unless your trying to tell me you've never used either which I very much doubt, wouldn't you say your being hypocritical with things like this, its ok if we don't eat them but you use them for glue etc, is it not just as bad.
Now would you like to go back many years to look at early hominids, ones proven to have had meat in their diet had larger brains than those that were exclusively vegetarian, meat definitely made us smarter and raised us to what we are today, so its been a beneficial part of human life and still is, or would you rather have become a creature with little to no intelligence when you couldn't even make an argument for this.
We are also as a species omniverous, care to look at your dental records for one thing, plus the jaw is the strongest muscle in body, it wouldn't be if we were to only be eating apples and potatoes
"The saliva of carnivora contains no ptyalin and cannot predigest starches, then again, the stomach fluids get the job done quite nicely; that of vegetarian animals contains ptyalin for the predigestion of starches. Too bad our saliva hasn't been adapted to handle the poisons in the plants or the pesticides."
Those who eat plants are far more likely to contract cancer than those following a Meatatarian diet.
The risk of contracting breast cancer is 3.8 times greater for women who eat plants daily compared to NEVER; 2.8 times greater for women who prune the hedges daily compared to NEVER; and 3.25 greater for women who spray "weed-killer" liquids on plants 2 to 4 times a week as compared to NEVER.
The risk of fatal ovarian cancer is three times greater for women who eat plants 3or more times a week as compared to NONE.
The risk of fatal prostate cancer is 3.6 times greater for men who consume plants, shrubbery, bushes, and soy milk daily as compared to NEVER. Where does this cancer come from? Well as you all know, cancer is often believed to be the "evil" inside a person...."The cancer in the system" if you will. But scientifically, it can be proven that most of these plants that vegans eat are showered all the time with pesticides which can cause cancer. Plus, it has been reported that in their dying moments, plants release a secret fluid througout their system. It is sort of a defense mechanism. What this does is it poisons itself, in hopes that whoever is killing it, will eventually eat it and be poisoned.
Now I'm not saying your wrong to not eat meat, but I'm also saying your not right either, same for me, also just because someone eats meat doesn't make them a bad person so why the need to try and "spread the word", if you don't wasn't to eat meat, fine be content with that, just don't try an shove it in other peoples faces.
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Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:58 am
Konata-izumi-lucky-star oh and its not environmentally destructive, its beneficial, the whole point of eating creatures in the real world is to even things out, if you look at the world you'll find if one creature becomes numerous often predators become more numerous also to even the food chain out, so its beneficial.
Quote: Its the circle of life were suited to eat them as they are suited to eat us, you can live without meat but its a lot harder to than not to,
Quote: and I'm not on about effort or access to stuff the fact remains the meat will give you the nutrients you need easier than buying lots of supplements, also what about years ago when such pills etc didn't exist how were you meant to be a healthy vegetarian then, are is it just ok now, ignoring the past, meat was needed and eaten back then, so why is it different now you can get the nutrients without meat.
And it's not the past, you said it yourself. You have no exuses now, you live in a first world country with ample crop gowing technology.
Quote: You talk of cannibalism as its terrible don't try to place human logic on animals, cannibalism happens in the wild whether you like it or not, its an everyday part of life for certain creatures.
Quote: It rare for animals to not be reared properly, its a common myth they are abused etc, plus your most probably listing from word of mouth, have you actually gone round and inspected ten or more random sites, if not don't rely on everything you hear, I could be wrong, but so could you, also many pro people will lie in articles etc to get there points across as would many people who may actually abuse them.
It is not a myth that they aren't reared properly, go one of the sites I linked or search for you own. Why would animals that are going to be killed be treated kindly when that takes time and money? We are not talking small family farms, these are giant corperations with cramped factory pens.
Yeah, professionals always lie about slaughterhouses. They must've made up all those photos of animals in tiny, filthy cages, employee testimonals as to poor working conditions and frequent injuries, and video of brutal killings.
Quote: Also even is some are killed inhumanly or reared that way, not all are, so whats wrong with eating the ones killed humanly, reared humanly, and before you say you can't tell, there are plenty of ways to tell, if it has or hasn't.
One in three chickens are not beheaded when sent through conveyor belt slaughter machines. Male chicks are thrown into alive garbage bags and left to suffocate slowly! You can tell just knowing they were kiled in a factory!
Quote: you talk of it killing animals but surely when you pick a plant you kill that two, you might argue against consciousness of these two things but where does consciousness actually lie, plants and animals both move, live, respire, feed, where is the real difference, isn't it arrogant to say one thing is better than the other they're all part of natures plan.
If animals aren't different from plants then why do we have animal cruelty laws? Why would feel different from pulling up a weed but hesitate if told to kill a puppy?
"Nature's plan?" When was this decided? See, I thought humans had free wills and intelligence.
Quote: (just to clarify Many scientific study's show plant's have awareness of surroundings and environment, so they do have awareness.)
Quote: Also many of the products you use today use animals to make them such as pharmaceutic capsules, glue and leather, now unless your trying to tell me you've never used either which I very much doubt, wouldn't you say your being hypocritical with things like this, its ok if we don't eat them but you use them for glue etc, is it not just as bad.
Quote: Now would you like to go back many years to look at early hominids, ones proven to have had meat in their diet had larger brains than those that were exclusively vegetarian, meat definitely made us smarter and raised us to what we are today, so its been a beneficial part of human life and still is, or would you rather have become a creature with little to no intelligence when you couldn't even make an argument for this.
Quote: We are also as a species omniverous, care to look at your dental records for one thing, plus the jaw is the strongest muscle in body, it wouldn't be if we were to only be eating apples and potatoes
Quote: "The saliva of carnivora contains no ptyalin and cannot predigest starches, then again, the stomach fluids get the job done quite nicely; that of vegetarian animals contains ptyalin for the predigestion of starches. Too bad our saliva hasn't been adapted to handle the poisons in the plants or the pesticides." Those who eat plants are far more likely to contract cancer than those following a Meatatarian diet.
Humans made pesticides, of course there's no adaptation forsomething a hundred years old. And once again you've got bad medical information. When my mother had cancer she was put a vegan diet because it helps fight and prevent cancer; it's standard for all cancer patients.
Quote: The risk of contracting breast cancer is 3.8 times greater for women who eat plants daily compared to NEVER; 2.8 times greater for women who prune the hedges daily compared to NEVER; and 3.25 greater for women who spray "weed-killer" liquids on plants 2 to 4 times a week as compared to NEVER. Quote: That first statistic show you're making this up. Someone who never ate vegtables or fruits would get scruvvy, among other things. They'd die before they got cancer. And animals in factory farms eat those plants, hence the higher concetration of toxins in animal products. Do you know what producers and firstlevel consumers are?Quote: The risk of fatal ovarian cancer is three times greater for women who eat plants 3or more times a week as compared to NONE. Quote: The risk of fatal prostate cancer is 3.6 times greater for men who consume plants, shrubbery, bushes, and soy milk daily as compared to NEVER. Where does this cancer come from? Well as you all know, cancer is often believed to be the "evil" inside a person...."The cancer in the system" if you will. But scientifically, it can be proven that most of these plants that vegans eat are showered all the time with pesticides which can cause cancer. Plus, it has been reported that in their dying moments, plants release a secret fluid througout their system. It is sort of a defense mechanism. What this does is it poisons itself, in hopes that whoever is killing it, will eventually eat it and be poisoned. Quote: Now I'm not saying your wrong to not eat meat, but I'm also saying your not right either, same for me, also just because someone eats meat doesn't make them a bad person so why the need to try and "spread the word", if you don't wasn't to eat meat, fine be content with that, just don't try an shove it in other peoples faces.
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Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:43 am
Woah my brother must have been pretty pissed to write all of that out in an argument, well done for that, I thought I'd state my view also,
1 I love eating meat, and I like to prepare it from the beginning, as in I kill the animals myself if given the chance then skin them or pluck them whatever it is, its a lot more fun than peeling a carrot.
2. I hate humans, I hate myself and I pretty much don't care that much for certain animals, so I'm pretty happy to know that both people and those certain animals can suffer side by side, you've strengthened my support for it, by certain animals I mean poultry, I hate chickens, turkeys, geese and ducks, and hope they do suffer.
oh and just to make what I said above clear, my family raises the animals from scratch and we aren't inhumane in how we do it either, nor do we slaughter animals as you say we simply kill what we need, when we need it, nothing more nothing less and kill them in an uncruel manner, though if it was up to me I'd happily put the chickens in the boiling hot pot while they are alive.
of course what I'm stating is my opinion and I'm not in anyway saying its right or wrong, but I like meat, there is nothing more satisfying than twisting a chickens neck with your own hands, and just to clarify there I'm not stating an argument, simply an opinion.
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Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 7:24 am
If you enjoy killing them there's no appealing to empathy, is there?
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Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:58 pm
I've been a vegetarian for a little over 3 years now, and I'm slowly transitioning into veganism.
I find it extremely odd that many people seem to think that being a veg*n is unhealthy. If done right, being a vegetarian isn't unhealthy at all. You'd be getting tons of vegetables, and getting all the protien and iron you'd get from meat, without all the fat that comes with meat.
And eating meat doesn't automatically make you healthy. Meat doesn't give you all of the nutrients you need, and many meat eaters don't have a very veggie-rich diet, which means that they're probably missing out on a lot of vitamins/minerals too, plus they're eating a lot more fat. So really that argument that going veg can be bad for you really doesn't hold much weight. confused
I'm not trying to be preachy or anything, I'm just pointing it out.
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Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:56 pm
ok! time to let the mean old stupid caveman speak.
I like things that taste good, meat tastes good.
I'm not ganna live forever, I don't care about the health effects of my diet.
and I don't like the taste of vegetables, but I do love the fruit. (although not as much as meat.
also as for animal rights, I don't care about animals nor do I care about humans. I am all about doing what pleases me.
so selfish yes, and happy yes............. eat more chicken.
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:42 am
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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:58 am
Soryiu I'm not ganna live forever, I don't care about the health effects of my diet. and I don't like the taste of vegetables, but I do love the fruit. (although
And it only takes three weeks to reprogram your tastebuds. I can't eat potato chips anymore. iI used to love them but now they're so bland and greasy! >.<
Quote: I am all about doing what pleases me.
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